Purcell on Weigh In on Monday

[MrBigStuff 398]

4 minutes ago, Shad said:

He certainly didn't instill any confidence for the racing game, nothing positive to offer, this being the case, time for him to step aside and  give someone with drive and passion for the industry to have a go, rest assured as bad as things are those at the top will still collect their large salaries. So much of racing used to be voluntarily, from the top right down to the birdcage gate attendant. Now its pay all the way. Its a grim outlook.

Things have moved on since the 60s and 70s - look at rugby as an example...it's all about being professional now

[Shad 1,558]

3 minutes ago, MrBigStuff said:

Things have moved on since the 60s and 70s - look at rugby as an example...it's all about being professional now

Yes the have, difference is racing was going great back then.

[Midget 4,489]

3 minutes ago, rdytdy said:

Not quite true Shad.

Many clubs from top to bottom are run by volunteers.

Is that really a good thing though ?

I'm all for small country clubs having a right to exist, and to conduct a race meeting, but only if they meet best practice principles.

Sadly too many clubs, whether driven by volunteers or professionally managed, either don't know, or don't care enough to meet those principles and so they arguably shouldn't be racing, well maybe they can race but in a limited "picnic" sort of capacity.

 

[We're Doomed 4,866]

12 minutes ago, MrBigStuff said:

We need to be closing venues and having for want of a better word "super venues" 

nz cannot continue on the same model it has done for years, it simply will not work.

time for people to wake up and smell the coffee. A classic example is Pakenham, nz should be following along the example of this venue, it looks top class and people have only positive things to say about it. Having 50 something racetracks in the country is not sustainable IMO

Melbourne has more racecourses within about an hours travel than Auckland. So surely the number of courses cannot be a problem. And you are promoting a satellite track (Pakenham) rather than Ellerslie which should surely be the "super venue"

[MrBigStuff 398]

No, I am saying Ellersie is the premier venue but why do we want to have 40 tracks that are dumps and shitholes when we could have a few tracks with top class facilities, ones that people want to come to, be wined and dined but still be able to have a picnic on the lawn. 

Nz racing DOES NOT have the cash to spend on 50 something courses. It is impossible for that to happen and it will not happen, that I believe is a given.

in the north the main venue would be in the Waikato, premier venue Ellerslie where the population is.

get the fundamentals right and the rest will follow. 

The industry cannot afford to prop up places like Stratford, Gore and such places. 

[rdytdy 5,343]

3 minutes ago, Midget said:

Is that really a good thing though ?

I'm all for small country clubs having a right to exist, and to conduct a race meeting, but only if they meet best practice principles.

Sadly too many clubs, whether driven by volunteers or professionally managed, either don't know, or don't care enough to meet those principles and so they arguably shouldn't be racing, well maybe they can race but in a limited "picnic" sort of capacity.

 

What I was relaying to Shad was that there are many clubs run by unpaid people, (agree on best practice principles) just because some are being paid doesn't make them more competent than others who are not.

 

 

[Guest 2Admin2]

If we forgot about providing "first class" facilities on course for those few people that are inclined to go to the races and instead focussed on "first class" facilities such as racing surfaces, stabling facilities and decent broadcasting over multiple digital channels then we would be better off.

[Fartoomuch 1,376]

39 minutes ago, trakdap said:

I watched Weigh In last night and the impression Mr  Purcell came across as a beaten man. His posture was slumped and he did not seem to look up or at the camera. It was very sad. He didn't seem very positive and the comment "ambulance at the bottom of the cliff" did nothing to give us confidence about the future of the Racing Industry. What Now?

Probably not beaten but more likely dejected given your description of his posture. Or, he may have had another rejection letter.

[MrBigStuff 398]

5 minutes ago, 2Admin2 said:

If we forgot about providing "first class" facilities on course for those few people that are inclined to go to the races and instead focussed on "first class" facilities such as racing surfaces, stabling facilities and decent broadcasting over multiple digital channels then we would be better off.

Agee entirely but it has to be the whole package 

[shaneMcAlister 1,425]

4 minutes ago, 2Admin2 said:

If we forgot about providing "first class" facilities on course for those few people that are inclined to go to the races and instead focussed on "first class" facilities such as racing surfaces, stabling facilities and decent broadcasting over multiple digital channels then we would be better off.

I totally agree with this too.  Lots of racing venues I went to in Ireland and UK had small stands and limited facilities, yet the atmosphere was great and people were kept close together and all got involved.

I would knock down the old stand at Te Rapa and just make it a banked hill.

[We're Doomed 4,866]

11 minutes ago, MrBigStuff said:

No, I am saying Ellersie is the premier venue but why do we want to have 40 tracks that are dumps and shitholes when we could have a few tracks with top class facilities, ones that people want to come to, be wined and dined but still be able to have a picnic on the lawn. 

Nz racing DOES NOT have the cash to spend on 50 something courses. It is impossible for that to happen and it will not happen, that I believe is a given.

in the north the main venue would be in the Waikato, premier venue Ellerslie where the population is.

get the fundamentals right and the rest will follow. 

The industry cannot afford to prop up places like Stratford, Gore and such places. 

Gee, cutting Gore would leave a bit of a gap in Southland.

The problem in NZ over many years has been the poor relative performances of the metropolitan tracks; such as Ellerslie, Te Rapa, Trentham, Riccarton, Wingatui. They are basically all basket-cases.

Pouring more money into those venues is unlikely to achieve a lot, sadly, without other major changes as well.

[barryb 2,064]

4 minutes ago, We're Doomed said:

Melbourne has more racecourses within about an hours travel than Auckland. So surely the number of courses cannot be a problem. And you are promoting a satellite track (Pakenham) rather than Ellerslie which should surely be the "super venue"

No Govt or council in NZ is going to fund a development like Pakenham, as the Vic Govt did, it would be political suicide to do so. 

The reality is racing has lost favour/interest with the general population unlike Aust where it still holds far wider appeal, racing results feature regular on the sports news, here not a glimpse of them. For many reasons the public don't care whether racing exists or not, I can only guess, but I have so strong thoughts as to why that might be.

1) The industry has done a very poor job in telling the public how important it is to the NZ economy (Economic and Social)

2) It suffers from an image perception issue, wealthy, suited, older businessmen who have the finances to sort out there own issues.

3) The TAB is lost to 2 generations 80's & 90's, as NZ joined the global economy and got lotto, pokies etc, TAB's were in shitty back alleys hidden away and represented dodgy frightening places to visit & only in recent times has that started to change. Unfortunately its too late as retailing is moving aside for online.

4) As a gambling nation were are very much still in our infancy and haven't developed like Australia or the UK for instance, we have been protected by nanny state because we are not mature enough to handle gambling on a scale that those countries do. TAB gambling is still taboo.

5) Cigarette/Liquor sponsorship, the ability of these companies to heavily promote and develop sporting events has largely been sidelined, we are too small a country for other industries to effectively fill the void. 

[Midget 4,489]

It's no different to golf courses.

You get out of them no more than what you put into them.

The environment counts, but after that it's management and investment, which leads to added value experiences for the users, that creates satisfaction, leads to demand......and somewhere along the way you'll find the best get better, they get to put on the big shows, and the rest just exist, often barely.

NZ needs a dozen good golf courses to attract tourists ( = $$$$ ) just as it needs half a dozen great racecourses.

What it doesn't need is shitholes from years gone by, and virtually every racecourse is a product of another era, they've been left behind in so many ways, and as an industry we should address and rectify that situation.

I mean look at the comments being attributed at the moment.

Ellerslie, yes, inconic, beautiful in places, cash rich but the racing surface is fucked and should be reconstructed.

Te Rapa, seriously !! good drainage but nothing else and it's smack in the middle of an industrial area !! The Waikato deserves better.

Awapuni, built low, to low standards, between a dump and a stream that floods. Say no more.

Riccarton. It was well outside the city limits, now it's in the heart of a burgeoning new suburb. The racing surface and substrate is fucked. It probably should be moved but I don't know if they have peat or good black sand down there so I wouldn't suggest where it might be moved to other than to say it could be a multi code hub with a great Strathayr track.

[We're Doomed 4,866]

2 minutes ago, barryb said:

No Govt or council in NZ is going to fund a development like Pakenham, as the Vic Govt did, it would be political suicide to do so. 

The reality is racing has lost favour/interest with the general population unlike Aust where it still holds far wider appeal, racing results feature regular on the sports news, here not a glimpse of them. For many reasons the public don't care whether racing exists or not, I can only guess, but I have so strong thoughts as to why that might be.

1) The industry has done a very poor job in telling the public how important it is to the NZ economy (Economic and Social)

2) It suffers from an image perception issue, wealthy, suited, older businessmen who have the finances to sort out there own issues.

3) The TAB is lost to 2 generations 80's & 90's, as NZ joined the global economy and got lotto, pokies etc, TAB's were in shitty back alleys hidden away and represented dodgy frightening places to visit & only in recent times has that started to change. Unfortunately its too late as retailing is moving aside for online.

4) As a gambling nation were are very much still in our infancy and haven't developed like Australia or the UK for instance, we have been protected by nanny state because we are not mature enough to handle gambling on a scale that those countries do. TAB gambling is still taboo.

5) Cigarette/Liquor sponsorship, the ability of these companies to heavily promote and develop sporting events has largely been sidelined, we are too small a country for other industries to effectively fill the void. 

My word, that is very well put.

[Turny 1,224]

Incredible that the 5 courses they want to promote all have one thing in common - stuffed tracks - on a winner here folks.  NOT

[biff 2,158]

if you mob licensed bookmakers, on course and off, you'd go north straightaway, instead lost in the void you/we are going south, really really fast, you bring atmosphere to a track you bring crowds and turnover, if AUS banned bookmakers their racing would resemble ours, fact!

[We're Doomed 4,866]

3 minutes ago, Midget said:

It's no different to golf courses.

You get out of them no more than what you put into them.

The environment counts, but after that it's management and investment, which leads to added value experiences for the users, that creates satisfaction, leads to demand......and somewhere along the way you'll find the best get better, they get to put on the big shows, and the rest just exist, often barely.

NZ needs a dozen good golf courses to attract tourists ( = $$$$ ) just as it needs half a dozen great racecourses.

What it doesn't need is shitholes from years gone by, and virtually every racecourse is a product of another era, they've been left behind in so many ways, and as an industry we should address and rectify that situation.

I mean look at the comments being attributed at the moment.

Ellerslie, yes, inconic, beautiful in places, cash rich but the racing surface is fucked and should be reconstructed.

Te Rapa, seriously !! good drainage but nothing else and it's smack in the middle of an industrial area !! The Waikato deserves better.

Awapuni, built low, to low standards, between a dump and a stream that floods. Say no more.

Riccarton. It was well outside the city limits, now it's in the heart of a burgeoning new suburb. The racing surface and substrate is fucked. It probably should be moved but I don't know if they have peat or good black sand down there so I wouldn't suggest where it might be moved to other than to say it could be a multi code hub with a great Strathayr track.

I certainly agree the facilities at most courses are less than substandard, and have been so for probably 30 years. Back in the 80s and earlier the industry did fund a small amount of replenishment such as developments at Ruakaka, New Plymouth, Omoto and Ashburton, and yes Ellerslie, but sadly under the prevailing doctrine nothing like this happens.

I must admit, I think Riccarton is the greatest racecourse in the country, purely because of its scale and setting. Trentham is an example of how to ruin such an asset. I know the facilities are tired, because they are just so big and it is the worst racing surface in the south when it comes to turning into a bog, but I would hate to lose Riccarton. I think it is an asset to ChCh and the South, but just needs to be managed effectively.

[Guest 2Admin2]

3 minutes ago, turny said:

Incredible that the 5 courses they want to promote all have one thing in common - stuffed tracks - on a winner here folks.  NOT

Exactly get back to basics.  Focus on those that tracks that AREN'T STUFFED!  At least get a decent and safe product racing!  At least that will generate income.  All the flash facilities generate is operational expense!!!

Plus fix those that aren't stuffed.  Flash facilities unless for the horses and those that put on the show aren't going to save the industry.

[We're Doomed 4,866]

15 minutes ago, shaneMcAlister said:

I totally agree with this too.  Lots of racing venues I went to in Ireland and UK had small stands and limited facilities, yet the atmosphere was great and people were kept close together and all got involved.

I would knock down the old stand at Te Rapa and just make it a banked hill.

Yes a bulldozer would do wonders at many NZ courses. Try and find a grandstand at Mornington and many other Aussie tracks. Most tracks need the old stands bulldozed and put up a small purpose build facility. Hawera, could probably be first to go.

[Guest 2Admin2]

1 minute ago, We're Doomed said:

Yes a bulldozer would do wonders at many NZ courses. Try and find a grandstand at Mornington and many other Aussie tracks. Most tracks need the old stands bulldozed and put up a small purpose build facility. Hawera, could probably be first to go.

Hawera have the worst facilities for stabling horses on race day that I have ever seen.

[We're Doomed 4,866]

2 minutes ago, 2Admin2 said:

Hawera have the worst facilities for stabling horses on race day that I have ever seen.

Hmm..the horses would probably refuse to set foot in the bars.

[barryb 2,064]

7 minutes ago, biff said:

if you mob licensed bookmakers, on course and off, you'd go north straightaway, instead lost in the void you/we are going south, really really fast, you bring atmosphere to a track you bring crowds and turnover, if AUS banned bookmakers their racing would resemble ours, fact!

Agree 100%, if the corporates are good for only 2 things and that's promotion of product and sponsorship then allow them in. The interest they generate on and off course is great. Yes we all know they are pricks and ban plenty, but their advertising budgets are massive and therefore can only be positive.

[von Smallhaussen 3,226]

4 hours ago, von Smallhaussen said:

Now is the right time for the Chairman of the Board of NZTR to stand up and make a statement of what NZTR IS GOING TO DO - not just a vision, or the exodus will gain momentum rapidly.

[rdytdy 5,343]

1 hour ago, MrBigStuff said:

No, I am saying Ellersie is the premier venue but why do we want to have 40 tracks that are dumps and shitholes when we could have a few tracks with top class facilities, ones that people want to come to, be wined and dined but still be able to have a picnic on the lawn. 

Nz racing DOES NOT have the cash to spend on 50 something courses. It is impossible for that to happen and it will not happen, that I believe is a given.

in the north the main venue would be in the Waikato, premier venue Ellerslie where the population is.

get the fundamentals right and the rest will follow. 

The industry cannot afford to prop up places like Stratford, Gore and such places. 

 

NZTR have a club funding policy with the focus and majority of money going to four major clubs and 16 others.

Ellerslie is the premier venue and rightly so. It is slap bang in the middle of a population base of 2 million people, it does have the best facilities of any club in the country and the best horses do race there but here is the rub: other than three or four days of the year no one attends the other race days and that includes the Auckland Cup run stupidly midweek with that day being rightly canned now and raced on the Saturday and Derby Day. The track can't take the racing it already has and they shut the track down and shift dates to Ruakaka for three months.

Boxing Day and New Years Day people attend (New Years day would be far bigger if the Cup was back on that day) and Karaka Millions night is big but they have a problem getting people on course at most other meetings. What happened on 29th December. You could have fired a gun into the place and hit no one. Nine races and 103 starters and the on course turnover a paltry $77,993.

A day later Taupo raced, hardly any facilities, 7000 people turn up and the on-course turnover was $176,369 on eight races with just 64 starters. ( Rotorua on the 27th, eight races, 88 starters and on-course turnover $174,227.)  

Ellerslie and Taupo, city and country racing, a place for both wouldn't you say.            

Tauherenikau 2nd January.  8 races 63 starters and on-course turnover $192,791.

[Turny 1,224]

4 minutes ago, rdytdy said:

 

NZTR have a club funding policy with the focus and majority of money going to four major clubs and 16 others.

Ellerslie is the premier venue and rightly so. It is slap bang in the middle of a population base of 2 million people, it does have the best facilities of any club in the country and the best horses do race there but here is the rub: other than three or four days of the year no one attends the other race days and that includes the Auckland Cup run stupidly midweek with that day being rightly canned now and raced on the Saturday and Derby Day. The track can't take the racing it already has and they shut the track down and shift dates to Ruakaka for three months.

Boxing Day and New Years Day people attend (New Years day would be far bigger if the Cup was back on that day) and Karaka Millions night is big but they have a problem getting people on course at most other meetings. What happened on 29th December. You could have fired a gun into the place and hit no one. Nine races and 103 starters and the on course turnover a paltry $77,993.

A day later Taupo raced, hardly any facilities, 7000 people turn up and the on-course turnover was $176,369 on eight races with just 64 starters. ( Rotorua on the 27th, eight races, 88 starters and on-course turnover $174,227.)  

Ellerslie and Taupo, city and country racing, a place for both wouldn't you say.            

 

They may have 2 million people on the doorstep Ted - but no one goes - and therein is the issue - WHY