No Whips

[globederby12 1,495]

1 hour ago, what a post said:

That's the way it is these days and they clearly have formed the opinion it is necessary.

You missed the point. They formed their opinion without any consultation with those it affects. They have made a knee jerk reaction to outside influences.

Pathetic to say the least

[Basil 333]

48 minutes ago, Brodie said:

Point I was making is that Natalie did leave it too late to move on her horse at Methven, but the only way she was able to run third was by continuing to hit the horse repeatedly.

If she didn't hit it in excess of the current new rule the horse would not have run 3rd.

Johnny Cox also thought by hitting the horse gave it more chance to win and I beleive that both of them would have more idea than you or me both being very experienced.

It is going to be very interesting in future premier meetings with the money up as to how many drivers are prepared to break the rule to get the stake money.

The punters are also going to suffer as well as we won't be able to invest with confidence if the drivers are not going to drive the horses out for fear of being fined.

Our new rule is dumb but the Oz rule of no whip is beyond ridiculous, and it will have huge detrimental effects for Harness racing in Oz.

Good grief!  So the man who just a few days ago was banging on about the infeasibility of the NZ 10-strikes rule is now decrying the only logical alternative to such a rule.  Admit it Brodie, you just like beating horses don't you (or, more likely, seeing them beaten).

According to your logic, a driver's mistake (Rasmussen) entitles said driver to whip a horse more.  Simon Legree would be proud...

I'd also be interested to know what empirical evidence you have for your claim that whipping makes a horse try harder.  I've certainly seen plenty of counter-examples over the years.    

[Basil 333]

On 11/12/2016 at 9:15 PM, Brodie said:

So for all these years that the drivers have had whips, they didn't realise that it was a total waste of time carrying a whip?

So if you were being hit by someone with a whip you wouldn't want to run away from it fast???????

 

This kind of thinking illustrates precisely why such a rule is needed.

[Guest]

28 minutes ago, Basil said:

This kind of thinking illustrates precisely why such a rule is needed.

What a Post says that a horse won't run any faster under a whip.

So what you are saying is that the administration of harness has been wrong all these years for allowing drivers and jockeys to be able to carry and use whips?????

[Guest]

31 minutes ago, Basil said:

Good grief!  So the man who just a few days ago was banging on about the infeasibility of the NZ 10-strikes rule is now decrying the only logical alternative to such a rule.  Admit it Brodie, you just like beating horses don't you (or, more likely, seeing them beaten).

According to your logic, a driver's mistake (Rasmussen) entitles said driver to whip a horse more.  Simon Legree would be proud...

I'd also be interested to know what empirical evidence you have for your claim that whipping makes a horse try harder.  I've certainly seen plenty of counter-examples over the years.    

Basil good grief you are misinterpreting everything deliberately izmwould say.

Where did I say that the 10 strike rule was infeasible?

What I have said that 10 whips,as a number is ridiculous to,expect drivers to control and manoeuvre a horse, and counting exactly the number of times he has used the whip and if he does 11 he gets a substantial fine?

This rule is also,detrimental for the punter as he doesn't know how many times his horse is going to be touched with the whip as the drivers are running scared.

Of course I don't like horses being beaten but tell me Basil, how many horses are hurt from the use of the whip do you know?

I haven't heard of the Animal Rights People protesting about horses being hit with the whip over recent years unless you know differently?

Natalie Rasmussen obviously thought she was entitled to give the horse plenty and she would have the best UDR in the country so she must be doing something right Basil!

Of course there would be a few horses that wouldn't respond to the whip, but If our professional drivers thoughts were that horses run better without the whip then they would all have them tucked under their armpit like Geoff Martin did. And has now rightfully been suspended!

[what a post 811]

1 hour ago, globederby12 said:

You missed the point. They formed their opinion without any consultation with those it affects. They have made a knee jerk reaction to outside influences.

Pathetic to say the least

No,Did not miss the point.    I  thought this was an easy one to predict, irrespective of whether you agree with it.                       Maybe most would not agree with me, but I think those  who you say should have been consulted should have seen it coming, especially after the greyhound thing, and therefore should have been proactive introducing rules that may have been some sort of compromise. Harness racing does not live in a bubble.

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, what a post said:

No,Did not miss the point.    I  thought this was an easy one to predict, irrespective of whether you agree with it.                       Maybe most would not agree with me, but I think those  who you say should have been consulted should have seen it coming, especially after the greyhound thing, and therefore should have been proactive introducing rules that may have been some sort of compromise. Harness racing does not live in a bubble.

What a Post, sorry, but have you personally heard from anyone from Animal Rights protesting the whipping of horses in recent years??

The totsl banning of the whip in Oz is just blatantly ridiculous and will kill the sport over there without doubt.

Our export market for horses will also be majorly affected as well as it is generally older horses that are sent over there and if no whip is able to be used then the horses won't try as hard, but that will be found out.

HRNZ did not major support of the Harness Owners and Trainers Association for the new rule here despite what they have said.

 

[Shad 1,554]

15 hours ago, Basil said:

Commiserations about your eyesight.

Thats just old age, it catches us all out at sum stage.

[maneman 2]

The amateurs used to drive without whips and it seemed to improve some of the horses

The amateur drivers struggle trying to hang on to reins and use a whip at the same time so it might improve some of the drivers  - I said might !!

 

[Guest]

9 hours ago, maneman said:

The amateurs used to drive without whips and it seemed to improve some of the horses

The amateur drivers struggle trying to hang on to reins and use a whip at the same time so it might improve some of the drivers  - I said might !!

 

If 99.9 per cent of drivers are not in favour of the no whip rule then Harness Australia have majorly stuffed up,and should be listening to the drivers.

Mr Want is very poorly named in Australian Harness circles nowadays.

The Ozzie drivers should definitely strike as this decision to have no whip has set the industry back an unbelievable amount and could well be the death knell!

[polly 1]

THIS FOR SOME PEOPLES INFORMATION WAS ON THE NZ HARNESS TRAINERS/DRIVERS ASSOCIATION WEB SITE.AFTER ALL THE PRESS WITH MARK JONES IN HARNESS EXPRESS ETC LOOKS LIKE HE GOT IT ALL WRONG,,,,

 

Over the past couple of weeks, the Trainers & Drivers Assn. has come under scrutiny, as it always should, in this case over the way that it handled the introduction of the 10 strike whip policy. Much has been said and written as to what was discussed at our recent National Council meeting, and whether the matter was voted on or not. Fortunately, as I do with all phone conferences, I tape the meetings so that I can go back and refer when writing the minutes if needed.

During the 28 October meeting, Chairman Rob Lawson raised the issue of whip use, and announced that Australia was planning to ban whips from next September. Subsequent to that the RIU and HRNZ, who did not favour following the Australian lead, were apparently proposing to introduce a 10 strike whip policy. Mark Jones said that he had spoken to RIU’s Nigel McIntyre, who had told him of the proposal, and Mark told the meeting that it seemed to be “not a bad meet in the middle”. At no point in the ensuing discussion did any of the Council members express opposition to the policy as such, and the last word on the matter was Mark again who said, “I don’t have a problem with it.” Due to there being no dissenting voice on the issue from anyone involved in the meeting, there was no formal vote. Why would there be?

Two weeks later the horseman’s representative on the HRNZ Board, Rob Lawson took part in a vote on the matter and voted for it, saying that he had the support of the NZHRT&D National Council, which of course at the time, and as far as he knew, he did.

It has been suggested that all horsemen should have a say on this issue. Just to clarify the situation if you are unaware, the National Council of the NZHRT&DA is the legally represented body of the horsemen. The Council represents all the branches and the horsemen affiliated to those Branches. As in any democracy the leaders are elected or appointed to represent the views of the members.

That is, they have to make decisions on behalf of the members - the members having had the confidence in those elected to accurately and honesty reflect their views, and also to represent in a manner that ensures the prosperity of the Harness Racing Industry. Every horseman or woman has the opportunity to put themselves forward as a local Committee member, ensuring they have a say in matters such as this.

Members of any Committee are entitled to change their minds after a meeting, however there are proper channels available to advise of that. Mark Jones comes from a family that for decades has given their time and energy in spades to establish and progress a body to represent all trainers and drivers, and he himself has for a number of years, been a valuable and insightful contributor to every meeting I’ve had the privilege of attending with him. It is terribly disappointing to hear that the Association and indeed, horsemen in general, will be losing his knowledge and vision over a perceived faulty meeting protocol.

There is a lot more I could say, but it’s the season of good will to all, well most anyway, and enough has been said on this classic ‘storm in a teacup’ in the public domain already, so I’ll save it for another time.

All the best to you and yours for the holiday season, and may you all win your fair share except when I’ve backed something else in the race, or am lining up against you in Central Otago.

Pete Cook