No Whips

[Memphis2 1,078]

Whips to be outlawed in harness racing from mid 2017 in Australia

This announcement must be bigger than Balmain

NZ would have to follow 

[2Piper 408]

Whips will have to stay in the breaking in process because it's virtually essential. If no whips at all the result would be no show jumpers, racehorses and hacks. Pet food man will have a feild day until there is no need for horses at all. Horses are now a luxury animal as the have been replaced by the motor vehicle at the turn of the last century. 

[Shad 1,554]

Be the end of any b and d to i guess, throw away the whips and leather undies. 

[Guest]

FFS banning whips in Oz will be the death knell for harness in Oz.

The Drivers love the whip over there and on the Small tracks they are into them at least a lap out.

Can not fathom it really and think punters won't bother.

Imagine if the GALLOPS follow this lead as well.

Definitely a bit excessive by the harness.

[Kotare_Hunter 748]

1 hour ago, Brodie said:

Imagine if the GALLOPS follow this lead as well.

They will certainly be under some pressure to do so.

[rdytdy 5,341]

I guess "Mrs Whippy" aka Kerryn Manning will retire now. 

[Kotare_Hunter 748]

1 hour ago, Brodie said:

Definitely a bit excessive by the harness.

It seems they dont have the abilities to deal with the potentially developing situation. Makes them look terribly weak and somewaht incompetent.

[the shue25 145]

5 minutes ago, rdytdy said:

I guess "Mrs Whippy" aka Kerryn Manning will retire now. 

Brodies  favorite driver  g martin can go and take her place as a no  whip rule will suit him perfectly.

[2Piper 408]

there will be a lot more "warning of manners" as older clever horses start to cheat. Punters will lose confidence.

[what a post 811]

I know I'm probably in the minority, but I don't think the whip makes them run any faster so why have them?  I personally have come to the conclusion that they are unnecessary for safety in training as well.                                                                            The only problem I could see  here would be the policing of the not trying rule, but  just means stipes would have to read the body language of the horse and driver a bit more, and those hearing any case would have to have had past experience, maybe with any appointments having to get the ok from the horseman association.

[eljay 1,719]

The dogs have a rule called "failing to persue the lure".      All harness need is a rule "failing to persue the money"       The only way they can ensure drivers are trying is to introduce a rule that makes it compulsory for drivers to back the horse they driving 

[Taku Umanga 194]

2 hours ago, eljay said:

The dogs have a rule called "failing to persue the lure".      All harness need is a rule "failing to persue the money"       The only way they can ensure drivers are trying is to introduce a rule that makes it compulsory for drivers to back the horse they driving 

..... or alternatively, no driving fee be paid unless they finish in the first five places - and as more of an incentive, if they finish in the first three they get the driving fee plus 10% of the stake!

[Guest]

6 hours ago, what a post said:

I know I'm probably in the minority, but I don't think the whip makes them run any faster so why have them?  I personally have come to the conclusion that they are unnecessary for safety in training as well.                                                                            The only problem I could see  here would be the policing of the not trying rule, but  just means stipes would have to read the body language of the horse and driver a bit more, and those hearing any case would have to have had past experience, maybe with any appointments having to get the ok from the horseman association.

You certainly are in the minority I would say.

The whip certainly does make horses try harder and if they were done away with here, it would be a backward step for the industry and the oZ decision is ridiculous and will be detrimental to their industry.

[Big Boned 32]

Beating anything does not make it try harder.

[Guest]

32 minutes ago, Big Boned said:

Beating anything does not make it try harder.

So for all these years that the drivers have had whips, they didn't realise that it was a total waste of time carrying a whip?

So if you were being hit by someone with a whip you wouldn't want to run away from it fast???????

 

[Shad 1,554]

I have never seen any horses get a beating, think that comment a little over the top.

[what a post 811]

16 hours ago, Brodie said:

 

So if you were being hit by someone with a whip you wouldn't want to run away from it fast???????

 

Ive never thought that is what horses are thinking when they are being hit with the whip.  I think the horses think it is a reminder that they must keep going until the finish and not to ease up just yet.   Horses have an inner will to win,just like us.Its stronger in some than others,but using the whip on them is not the reason they try.Its there from when they are born.                                                      In my opinion a horse can easily be trained to give its best  without the whip,.'m sure the good trainers and drivers will adapt.  If the whip is that important how come most of the best drivers hardly ever use it.?    As for its use in training.  It can be abused by people with bad tempers,ive seen it.  Once again ive observed the better trainers don't tolerate anyone using the whip just to make a point to the horse,which just reinforces it is not necessary in my opinion.

[stipulate 3]

In reply to Shad !!! Think he should watch replay of Kerryn Mannings NZ Cup victory , shocking display !!!!

[rdytdy 5,341]

Will it make it easier to cheat ie give them a quiet one?  Yes.

Will it  turn punters away as they will lose confidence?  Yes 

I can however see a great business opportunity in Australia in the electrical field.   The making and selling of jiggers. Get the horse ready for a punt or a big race by trailing beforehand with a jigger when the ear plugs are pulled or some such action is instigated (after all it is Aussie).

But if as I read somewhere, the drivers etc are against this ban why don't they flex some muscle with boycotts and refuse to drive at some of the big race meetings etc?  

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, what a post said:

Ive never thought that is what horses are thinking when they are being hit with the whip.  I think the horses think it is a reminder that they must keep going until the finish and not to ease up just yet.   Horses have an inner will to win,just like us.Its stronger in some than others,but using the whip on them is not the reason they try.Its there from when they are born.                                                      In my opinion a horse can easily be trained to give its best  without the whip,.'m sure the good trainers and drivers will adapt.  If the whip is that important how come most of the best drivers hardly ever use it.?    As for its use in training.  It can be abused by people with bad tempers,ive seen it.  Once again ive observed the better trainers don't tolerate anyone using the whip just to make a point to the horse,which just reinforces it is not necessary in my opinion.

Sorry, What a Post, don't agree but then that is our perogative.

If it wasn't for the whip Gammalite and Pure Steel probably may never had raced!

You say that the best trainers don't tolerate the whip to make a point to their horse?

You are saying then that The AllStars stables and The Robert Dunn Stables are not the best trainers in NZ then?

Natalie Rasmussen and Johnny Cox both from the AllStars have been guilty of excess use of the whip recently and Ross Houghton from The Dunn stable as well last week, so I think your argument is decidedly flawed!

Doubt you will get many drivers agreeing that the whip doesn't make their horse try harder and there are going to be many horses with a limited life due to this new stupid 10 hit rule we have now and the no whip rule coming in Oz.

[globederby12 1,495]

We are getting away from the topic a bit. I think what needs to be understood is that those administrators in charge of making such decisions to the good or detriment of Australian harness racing have done so without any consultation with those at the coal face. Drivers and trainers. Quite mindboggling when what,s at stake is taken into consideration.

Politically driven obviously, with no thought behind the decision.

I know this is drawing a long bow but we tolerate human suffering on a large scale ( Aleppo) , but frown upon the use of a whip to hurry a horse up and implement large scale regulations around it. Its a world turned upside down run by Greenies and do gooders.

Only an opinion of course

 

[Shad 1,554]

4 hours ago, d mitchell said:

In rep yto Shad !!! Think he should watch replay of Kerryn Mannings NZ Cup victory , shocking display !!!!

For one she is an aussie, secondly she got 1000$ fine and 2 week suspension, fair enough it was rather vigorous, don't see to many drives like that in nz.

[what a post 811]

Globederby-Obviously harness administrators in Australia have watched the greyhound industry and saw the ability of those outside the industry to have a huge impact. They would have been mugs had they ignored that lesson. That's the way it is these days and they clearly have formed the opinion it is necessary.

Brodie-You refer to johnny cox and natalie Rasmussen. Well did johnny cox hitting his horse more times than the rest make any difference to the result ?Looked like his horse peaked on its run when hard driven at the end. Had Natalie Rasmussen followed jerry Garcia forward early then her horse would have won untouched.  Did she have to hit the same horse when it won on cup day? There are many more significant things that can effect a result than  whether a driver can use the whip on their horse. 

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, what a post said:

Globederby-Obviously harness administrators in Australia have watched the greyhound industry and saw the ability of those outside the industry to have a huge impact. They would have been mugs had they ignored that lesson. That's the way it is these days and they clearly have formed the opinion it is necessary.

Brodie-You refer to johnny cox and natalie Rasmussen. Well did johnny cox hitting his horse more times than the rest make any difference to the result ? Had Natalie Rasmussen followed jerry Garcia forward early then her horse would have won untouched.  Did she have to hit the same horse when it won on cup day? There are many more significant things that can effect a result than  whether a driver can use the whip on their horse. 

Point I was making is that Natalie did leave it too late to move on her horse at Methven, but the only way she was able to run third was by continuing to hit the horse repeatedly.

If she didn't hit it in excess of the current new rule the horse would not have run 3rd.

Johnny Cox also thought by hitting the horse gave it more chance to win and I beleive that both of them would have more idea than you or me both being very experienced.

It is going to be very interesting in future premier meetings with the money up as to how many drivers are prepared to break the rule to get the stake money.

The punters are also going to suffer as well as we won't be able to invest with confidence if the drivers are not going to drive the horses out for fear of being fined.

Our new rule is dumb but the Oz rule of no whip is beyond ridiculous, and it will have huge detrimental effects for Harness racing in Oz.

[Basil 333]

23 hours ago, Shad said:

I have never seen any horses get a beating, think that comment a little over the top.

Commiserations about your eyesight.