crustyngrizzly 1,681 Report post Posted December 1, 2016 13 hours ago, Insider said: In the old days that is exactly what they did, they accumulated land. Sadly over the last 20 years the opposite has taken place just to stay afloat. Riccarton, Trentham, Awapuni, Te Rapa and Ellerslie. ALL ARE GUILTY. It's my belief that they should have purchased Paeroa and turned it into a premier jumping course and done away with jumping at all other courses in the north except Ellerslie for its steeplechase. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
biff 2,158 Report post Posted December 1, 2016 Now there is a nice point Grizz, the UK has dedicated jumps courses, and our jumps seasons is long enough to sustain this, now for another candidate in CD and two down south. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midget 4,489 Report post Posted December 1, 2016 Here's the truth. This industry is rich in history, culture, intellectual property, assets, and to some extent in cash, but it's poor, because for most of this century it's been dragged to its knees by beaurocrats and lackies who know very little about racing, and the enormous amounts of money we've had have largely been wasted on stakes, travel, and useless ideas. The same applies at the code level, and the club level. The Racing Act has been a catastrophic malfunction. The industry has been disenfranchised, those who put on the show have been emasculated by poorly constructed, corrosive, and vituperative policies designed by morons with no real stake in the game. There is now significant separation between the deluded suits who think they're doing a good job ruining the industry, and the hard working participants who actually create the product that makes racing what it is, or should be. Can it be saved or restored to good health ? how would you know ?, and every time I hear David Ellis or Roger James wanking on about TV channels or Alan Jackson being the "great white hope" I tend to roll my eyes and think they're just getting what they deserve so why bother trying to help them ? Anyway here's a wee picture to reflect on, it's a bit deep but there will be some amongst you who'll resonate with it. gubellini 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
crustyngrizzly 1,681 Report post Posted December 1, 2016 Even today some of the clubs commitees are made up of people who are their by default. They all have the same motto..Do whatever you want,just don't do it on our turf. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
biff 2,158 Report post Posted December 1, 2016 As Mr Big said to Carrie ''Absofuckinglutely''! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornelius 94 Report post Posted December 1, 2016 15 hours ago, Leggy said: Can you explain how you arrive at the 15% more Cornelius? Not saying you are wrong, but the tax on GBR in NZ is 4% and has been since Fairtax reduced it from 20% in 2006. In NSW, betting tax on GBR is currently 13.5%, though it is gradually being reduced from 19.11% in 2015 to 7.6% in 2020, which even then will be 90% HIGHER than the NZ rate. Please explain. Im not an accountant, but If the Government are getting $60 million from $342 million GBR. Isnt that 17.5%? (I did think it was about 20%) I thought Australian states are down to 5%. If Im wrong. Im wrong. But i looks Government tax is too much for our struggling industry! The NZ Government have to come to the party. The Australian Governments have. Also, The NZRB spend $66 million on salaries. Up $3 million from previous year! If NZRB spend $18.3 on 138 employees on over $100,000 a year, how do NZRB salaries spend another $48 million? Nearly $30 million on Chief Exceutive and Leadership remuneration? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggy 4,005 Report post Posted December 2, 2016 Thanks Cornelius. I kind of agree on the salary cost issue but I suspect much of that is due to the huge increase in product offerings strategy, especially with an antiquated mostly manual FOB system. I'm not an accountant either so am happy to be corrected, but I've heard a number of people say what you are, that the NZ Government should front up with some dosh because we are struggling and they are taking heaps from us, whereas the Oz state governments are giving back. From what I can see, the NZ taxpayer and government are getting nix directly from wagering on NZ racing whereas the Oz states are getting heaps and so have something to give back. Part of the government revenue from racing in both countries is GST and I realise that in Oz that's 10% and here 15% but that's part of the general taxation structure difference between the two countries. I doubt any call by any Industry in either country for the government to return GST to that industry would have a leg to stand on. That leaves the betting tax/duty. Here is the comparison with the main Oz racing states. It's a bit complex because in Oz most states have different betting tax rates for on and off course tote and FOB, so for simplicity of comparison purposes, I've stuck with the rates for the largest revenue source, off-course tote. All percentages are of GBR or tote commission. I note also that operators pay licence fees in some Oz states. Tatts recently paid 150m for the Queensland retail outlet rights, for example, plus ongoing quarterly licence fees.. Victoria - 7.6% NSW - 13.5% (This has recently been reduced from 19.11% and will continue to reduce until parity with Victoria (7.6%) is reached in 2020) WA - 11.91% QLD - 14% NZ - 4% (This was reduced from 20% in 2006 and the difference now amounts to 50m+ a year - a windfall that we have had for a decade and NSW is only now receiving). You can draw your own conclusions but even at 7.6%, the best deal in Oz is nearly double ours and NZ racing is also the beneficiary of $35m of Gross Gaming Revenue as your screen cap shows which way more than wipes out the 13.4m of betting duty paid (and only half of that is actually generated by NZ racing). I don't see any substance in the case or argument for government/taxpayer assistance I'm afraid. I keep asking people that I hear or see making this claim to produce some data to support the argument but I am yet to even get a response from any of them, so thanks for yours. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornelius 94 Report post Posted December 2, 2016 Fair enough Leggy. Thanks for you explanation about the taxes and Duty. Still think the salaries are massively out of kilt then, when you compare to other organisations (like Midget said the Auckland Regional Council) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midget 4,489 Report post Posted December 2, 2016 The NZRB like to pretend theirs is a huge organization ( they typically use inflated turnover figures to give the impression they're massive ) but they're not, and their salaries should only be in line with any other medium sized company turning over about 400 million. John Allen for example should only be 300k max given his history and very average past. They're not accountable though and I guess we'd all be taking advantage of the system if we were in a similar position. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggy 4,005 Report post Posted December 2, 2016 7 minutes ago, Cornelius said: massively out of kilt then, Are you referring to Insider's 9 inches around Trentham? Cornelius 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornelius 94 Report post Posted December 2, 2016 23 minutes ago, Leggy said: NZ - 4% (This was reduced from 20% in 2006 and the difference now amounts to 50m+ a year - a windfall that we have had for a decade and NSW). This $50 million windfall is paying for all the cronies at NZRB. NZRB needs a total clear-out. dock leaf, hedley and Leggy 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohokaman 5,759 Report post Posted December 2, 2016 The Government have never been particularly disposed to distribute largesse to the Racing Industry. As the example here from a few years back shows....even at low levels, pretty clear what their thinking is .... Racing Safety initiatives analysis p. 32 * The Department seeks ongoing funding of $1.0 million per annum from 2007/08 to establish a contestable fund that would match the racing industry’s own contributions towards initiatives aimed at improving facilities and amenities. * Treasury does not support funding for this initiative, as it is low priority and represents questionable value for money. In particular, it is unclear as to the extent of under-maintenance of racing facilities and why clubs cannot raise sufficient revenue for improvements on their own, e.g. through increased entry fees, sponsorship and community fund-raising. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insider 3,874 Report post Posted December 2, 2016 3 hours ago, Leggy said: Are you referring to Insider's 9 inches around Trentham? Insider NEVER had 9 inches in or around Trentham, she only wished she did! Conversely Trentham had 9 inches of rain throughout November and is going to put up the best track seen this year in the country tomorrow. I cant wait for the Midget to say sorry and apologize for his aspersions about my beloved track. Given how good it's going to be tomorrow, maybe he called on his Irish Catholic faith and asked the local Bishop to pass on his aspirations in the form of Holy Water! Thinking about it, maybe the the few showers that fell in the Valley about mid afternoon were in fact Holy Water! By the way did you see the crap track from Riccarton today/tonight after the few showers there? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggy 4,005 Report post Posted December 2, 2016 39 minutes ago, Ohokaman said: The Government have never been particularly disposed to distribute largesse to the Racing Industry. As the example here from a few years back shows....even at low levels, pretty clear what their thinking is .... Racing Safety initiatives analysis p. 32 * The Department seeks ongoing funding of $1.0 million per annum from 2007/08 to establish a contestable fund that would match the racing industry’s own contributions towards initiatives aimed at improving facilities and amenities. * Treasury does not support funding for this initiative, as it is low priority and represents questionable value for money. In particular, it is unclear as to the extent of under-maintenance of racing facilities and why clubs cannot raise sufficient revenue for improvements on their own, e.g. through increased entry fees, sponsorship and community fund-raising. Yep, I agree with them. No value for taxpayer money when racing contributes nothing and that was right after the government throwing what now mounts to $50m a year in duty relief our way. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midget 4,489 Report post Posted December 2, 2016 13 minutes ago, Insider said: Insider NEVER had 9 inches in or around Trentham, she only wished she did! Conversely Trentham had 9 inches of rain throughout November and is going to put up the best track seen this year in the country tomorrow. I cant wait for the Midget to say sorry and apologize for his aspersions about my beloved track. Given how good it's going to be tomorrow, maybe he called on his Irish Catholic faith and asked the local Bishop to pass on his aspirations in the form of Holy Water! Thinking about it, maybe the the few showers that fell in the Valley about mid afternoon were in fact Holy Water! By the way did you see the crap track from Riccarton today/tonight after the few showers there? Maybe the Midget required a slightly yielding track at Riccarton today Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insider 3,874 Report post Posted December 2, 2016 2 minutes ago, Midget said: Maybe the Midget required a slightly yielding track at Riccarton today Did you have a runner? If so dd it go well? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insider 3,874 Report post Posted December 2, 2016 I have since done my homework! Congratulations. Great result. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midget 4,489 Report post Posted December 2, 2016 49 minutes ago, Insider said: Did you have a runner? If so dd it go well? Benedicam tibi gary1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohokaman 5,759 Report post Posted December 2, 2016 1 hour ago, Insider said: Insider NEVER had 9 inches in or around Trentham, she only wished she did! Conversely Trentham had 9 inches of rain throughout November and is going to put up the best track seen this year in the country tomorrow. I cant wait for the Midget to say sorry and apologize for his aspersions about my beloved track. Given how good it's going to be tomorrow, maybe he called on his Irish Catholic faith and asked the local Bishop to pass on his aspirations in the form of Holy Water! Thinking about it, maybe the the few showers that fell in the Valley about mid afternoon were in fact Holy Water! By the way did you see the crap track from Riccarton today/tonight after the few showers there? I'm sure Midget was perfectly happy with it Insider..... When they run 1200m in a tick over 1.09 and last 600's in 33.2 don't think you can have too many complaints.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike28 182 Report post Posted December 2, 2016 am going tomorrow cant wait ideal conditions track and weather wise not bad either they will run time tomorrow Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Smallhaussen 3,226 Report post Posted December 2, 2016 1 hour ago, Insider said: Did you have a runner? If so dd it go well? oh no - don't tell me he is part of the mickey mouse syndicate that won with tiara concerto ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muritai 14 Report post Posted December 2, 2016 Hey Insider you are a negative individual when commenting on the Riccarton track yesterday,raced well all day with some brilliant finishes.Late in the day 2 1200m races recorded 1.09 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midget 4,489 Report post Posted December 2, 2016 14 minutes ago, Muritai said: Hey Insider you are a negative individual when commenting on the Riccarton track yesterday,raced well all day with some brilliant finishes.Late in the day 2 1200m races recorded 1.09 I think Inside ( aka Liz ) was trying to deflect criticism from the third world mud in the Hutt ( aka Trentham ) by pointing the finger and saying "what about them?" Riccarton does cop a bit of criticism too, and justifiably so, but if any two clubs in NZ stand tall on the podium of failure and negligence when it comes to tracks they'd be Counties and Trentham. Counties has more environmental problems being built on a swamp but based on the last two meetings they seem to have solved most of their historical issues. Welllington on the other hand has a bad track made of unsuitable and neglected soil, with historical management issues, in fact negligence, and in conjunction with that their club management over the years has been woeful, in fact it's hard to think of a more disorganized and dysfunctional club that's wasted so many opportunities, sold off so much of the family silver, and failed the industry so badly. That said they've never had enough meaningful input from horsemen and they've been infested with blokes from the business community who seem to have massive superiority complexes but zero racing vision. They'll produce an ok track today, but who couldn't at this time of year ? The reality is though that Trentham should be sold off yesterday, turn it into 300 sections, then get a decent management team in there and build a brand new asset out in the sand area of Waikanae or further up Levin way, something relevant and modern that meets the needs of a modern racing world, not the needs of a few old men in suits who think a major club is their own private indulgence and hobby. They should remove all WRC aligned officials from the Members Council too, they're just not qualified to do these critical jobs and if they can't steer their own club successfully they shouldn't have a role in NZ racing politics. Now, I think I'll turn my phone off and duck for cover !!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trump 2,741 Report post Posted December 2, 2016 I can't understand why anyone would come up with the statement, "the Racing Industry contributes nothing". What do you call the millions and millions of $ collected in GST from every supplier to and participator in the racing industry? What about the millions and millions of PAYE and Business taxes paid by all those who work in the racing industry? It goes on and on. The Racing Industry provides a "huge" economic benefit to NZ. It also provides a platform for social and economic benefit to many rural communities. ( That's why in Australia there's a huge focus on Country Cup meetings. ). For someone to say the govt get nothing shows very little understanding. If that's also the govt feeling, then obviously, they haven't been sold the right message. Close the industry down and the Govt would have a massive increase in unemployment, resulting in long queues outside the dole office. A massive drop in GST income and another massive drop in PAYE and business taxes. Who are the idiots kidding? The return to the Govt could be a lot greater still, if only we had the right people at the helm, taking the govt along with them with a clear identifiable pathway to prosperity for all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insider 3,874 Report post Posted December 2, 2016 25 minutes ago, Trump said: I can't understand why anyone would come up with the statement, "the Racing Industry contributes nothing". What do you call the millions and millions of $ collected in GST from every supplier to and participator in the racing industry? What about the millions and millions of PAYE and Business taxes paid by all those who work in the racing industry? It goes on and on. The Racing Industry provides a "huge" economic benefit to NZ. It also provides a platform for social and economic benefit to many rural communities. ( That's why in Australia there's a huge focus on Country Cup meetings. ). For someone to say the govt get nothing shows very little understanding. If that's also the govt feeling, then obviously, they haven't been sold the right message. Close the industry down and the Govt would have a massive increase in unemployment, resulting in long queues outside the dole office. A massive drop in GST income and another massive drop in PAYE and business taxes. Who are the idiots kidding? The return to the Govt could be a lot greater still, if only we had the right people at the helm, taking the govt along with them with a clear identifiable pathway to prosperity for all. Trump I agree with you 100% There is too much rubbish espoused on this site by people with twisted agendas. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...