Midget 4,489 Report post Posted November 19, 2016 On a roll downhill. How can they schedule eight races for $7,000 at Cambridge today ? Two of those are R65's. If they're going to run races for the equivalent of a month and a half's training fees the winners shouldn't be penalised should they ? doesn't seem fair to me if you're taking home under $4,000 net for winning a race and then you cop a penalty that'll prevent you winning another race for six months. inside edge, Laurie Sutherland, THE TORCH and 2 others 5 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Party Poker 167 Report post Posted November 19, 2016 Fair enough comment - but presumably meeting was scheduled, and after yesterday's small field (presumably lack of horses) and lack of money available to the club for stakes, what do you suggest? Stop running meetings and close the club? Criticism should be constructive and I would be pleased to see some. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midget 4,489 Report post Posted November 19, 2016 A solution to increase stakes to stakeholders would be to cut down the travel costs of the NZTR.It has been well documented that NZTR travel cost exceed that of the Auckland City Council travel budget,how can that be justified?? Can anyone give me a reason why G Purcell was at Counties yesterday? It may have been justified,if he had gone downstairs and asked why punters who could not hear any commentary of the races.Several people were voicing there disgust and they were right to do so.First time punters had no idea where there horses had finished,which will only discourage them returning.Another group paid $1400 for a tent and asked for a refund when there was no table for them,a livewire official fixed this issue by going to the next tent and took their table.Brillant. This person in my view has done nothing to improve racing in NZ,In fact he has been a major factor in the decline of our Industry since his arrival. The clock must be ticking on his future role as the CEO. SNR Huey and napier 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
We're Doomed 4,824 Report post Posted November 19, 2016 The problem is that it is totally random. One club gets funded to run $7,000 races and another gets funded to run $20,000+ races. There is no real logic in it and many horses race at both types of meetings, so no pattern of racing develops. I always find the southern situation this week amusing. Three $7,000 races abandoned in Southland on Thursday; but that's ok says NZRacing, we will just program some more $20,000 races at Cromwell. They shouldn't even be the same horses racing at each meeting if they are genuinely trying to develop tiered racing. I also find it totally bizarre that Canterbury racing closes down for 20 days after Cup Week. Just imagine that happening in Victoria; no racing at Pakenham or Ballarat during Nov because we have just had Melb Cup week. If a Canterbury trainer has a horse that they don't consider up to $30,000 or $40,000 races during Cup Week they go 34 days without a racemeeting. They must be so excited to see a $7,000 race at the end of that break. I presume trainers give owners a month of free training as they never seem to complain about such weird programming. Los Lobos, THE TORCH and Huey 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
We're Doomed 4,824 Report post Posted November 19, 2016 On the same subject I always find it disgusting that $77,000 gets put up at Hastings on New Year's Day for a racemeeting with massive crowds, while 42 horses got to race for $110,000 at Awapuni this weekend. The whole structure is wrong and does not make effective use of the limited stakes money available. THE TORCH, Los Lobos, Diver Dan and 1 other 4 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turny 1,224 Report post Posted November 19, 2016 Agree Leggy absoltutely ridiculous Riccarton hibernates over summer - simply crazy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohokaman 5,759 Report post Posted November 19, 2016 Stop it WD...you are making too much sense. Some sensitive types out there might get upset..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midget 4,489 Report post Posted November 19, 2016 59 minutes ago, Party Poker said: Fair enough comment - but presumably meeting was scheduled, and after yesterday's small field (presumably lack of horses) and lack of money available to the club for stakes, what do you suggest? Stop running meetings and close the club? Criticism should be constructive and I would be pleased to see some. I suggested that if they're going to continue running races for $7,000 they should be penalty free because the winning stake is the equivalent of 6 weeks training fees. What's not constructive about that ? and with all due respect which part of it didn't you understand ? Paper Chase and THE TORCH 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggy 4,005 Report post Posted November 19, 2016 That's not a bad idea Midget since they seem to have no intention of fixing the nonsensical stakes structure. In fact I'd say all races under 10k should be both penalty and cost free, and the rest of the handicapping system still needs sorting. Then straighten out the ludicrous programming situation alluded to above and fix some tracks and we might be heading in a better direction. Los Lobos and Huey 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gubellini 3,923 Report post Posted November 19, 2016 Race One at Te Rapa today delayed because strong winds are playing havoc with the portable plastic running rail. Surely they should be wind tested before delivery by the suppliers. Another example of why we are the laughing stock of World Racing. Tauhei Notts, MS26, Los Lobos and 1 other 4 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turny 1,224 Report post Posted November 19, 2016 Meeting canned Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MS26 70 Report post Posted November 19, 2016 6 minutes ago, gubellini said: Race One at Te Rapa today delayed because strong winds are playing havoc with the portable plastic running rail. Surely they should be wind tested before delivery by the suppliers. Another example of why we are the laughing stock of World Racing. Abandoned. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insider 3,874 Report post Posted November 19, 2016 Geez, I hope that never try to use that rail at Palmerston Noth or Wellington! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
We're Doomed 4,824 Report post Posted November 20, 2016 1 hour ago, Midget said: I suggested that if they're going to continue running races for $7,000 they should be penalty free because the winning stake is the equivalent of 6 weeks training fees. What's not constructive about that ? and with all due respect which part of it didn't you understand ? The last thing we need is penalty free races. That is what's killing the trots. They hate to get to class 2 or higher. They love penalty free races. Once they win 3 races they disappear. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
We're Doomed 4,824 Report post Posted November 20, 2016 1 hour ago, Ohokaman said: Stop it WD...you are making too much sense. Some sensitive types out there might get upset..... Sensitive types!!! In NZ Racing. Surely not. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
We're Doomed 4,824 Report post Posted November 20, 2016 30 minutes ago, turny said: Meeting canned No worries, they will add some more $25,000 races to Ellerslie on Saturday Huey 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midget 4,489 Report post Posted November 20, 2016 4 minutes ago, We're Doomed said: The last thing we need is penalty free races. That is what's killing the trots. They hate to get to class 2 or higher. They love penalty free races. Once they win 3 races they disappear. So you've got a horse who's good enough to win two races, a maiden and a 65 grade race. He's in work for say 15 months over two preps to win those two races, that's about $40,000 in training fees. He wins two $7,000 races and takes home $8,000 net. As an owner you've just lost $32,000 plus the purchase price of the horse, cost of money etc.....no wonder the industry is shrinking !!! Paper Chase, THE TORCH and Fartoomuch 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOM(the other Molloy) 1,774 Report post Posted November 20, 2016 NZTR are far too busy worrying about whether the Club constitution is up to scratch and the book are audited by a CAANZ member to be concerned about improving the lot of industry participants. as I have said before I am expecting a circular from Moncur and Co specifying the exact height we have to have our dunny roll holders next. Tauhei Notts and Huey 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotch Thistle 133 Report post Posted November 20, 2016 2 hours ago, Midget said: I suggested that if they're going to continue running races for $7,000 they should be penalty free because the winning stake is the equivalent of 6 weeks training fees. What's not constructive about that ? and with all due respect which part of it didn't you understand ? If a maiden winner doesn't get a rating penalty, what chance has it got of getting a run in a Rating 65 field? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
We're Doomed 4,824 Report post Posted November 20, 2016 46 minutes ago, Midget said: So you've got a horse who's good enough to win two races, a maiden and a 65 grade race. He's in work for say 15 months over two preps to win those two races, that's about $40,000 in training fees. He wins two $7,000 races and takes home $8,000 net. As an owner you've just lost $32,000 plus the purchase price of the horse, cost of money etc.....no wonder the industry is shrinking !!! I agree totally the distribution of stakes is unfair and inefficient, but I don't think penalty free races are the answer. It has never helped the trots. It encourages negative thinking from participants, and we certainly don't need any more of that. The problem is, and has been for some time, that the industry is being run by people who have no feeling or passion for it and have no idea how to get the basics right let alone show any leadership, innovation or motivation. Sadly the industry itself appears to lack any alternative inspirational leadership, so we are left to drift rudderless. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
army 156 Report post Posted November 20, 2016 This is my thoughts on the situation. Saturday race meetings get a lot more money than mid week but when it comes to field size often a mid week has more horse. It doesnt matter whether you race your horse mid week or on a Saturday the training cost are the same. It doesnt matter whether you are training a maiden rating 75 or open class horse the training fee is still the same. I think it is about time that they reduced some Saturday stakes and increased mid week stakes. You see horses running around for 20000 on a Saturday and you have 6 in the field. They all get a stake. You see a full field of 16 running round mid week and only 5 get a stake. How is that fair. Which race dose NZTR get more money from. If there is only 6 in a race pay down to 3rd dont give a payment for getting last. They need to sit down look at the system and change it to suit our current situation not keep going along the path that they have for the last 50 years. I know a lot you of people believe that country courses shouldnt have a Saturday meeting but if a country course had 1 or 2 Saturdays a year the crowd would be there because it is a novalty. If the crowds are there more money would go over the totes therefor more money for NZTR to reinvest into races. All the Christmas at the races should be a Saturday or Sunday because a lot of firms dont work those days and they would use it as their Xmas party. Look at Awapuni yesterday they said they have several hundred people booked in even though the fields were small. Its time to change with the times have a look at what is going on and reinvent a new race programme to suit the present not the past Leggy, Los Lobos, moz1047 and 1 other 4 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaneMcAlister 1,420 Report post Posted November 20, 2016 Especially at this time of the year the fields for the $7K midweek races can be very strong. Even the trials at this time of the year produce big quality fields. I personally think the $7K races need to stop being supported by all parties. We need $15K minimum. A horse with 3 runs winning a $12K maiden and $20K Saturday R65 race and it will just breakeven. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
We're Doomed 4,824 Report post Posted November 21, 2016 1 hour ago, shaneMcAlister said: Especially at this time of the year the fields for the $7K midweek races can be very strong. Even the trials at this time of the year produce big quality fields. I personally think the $7K races need to stop being supported by all parties. We need $15K minimum. A horse with 3 runs winning a $12K maiden and $20K Saturday R65 race and it will just breakeven. Where do you suggest the $15,000 comes from? That is an extra $64,000 for an eight race low grade meeting or $80,000 extra if they run ten races. We have to be realistic, no one goes to these meetings and no one bets on them. We are a twilight industry, we have to make the best use of the money that is available. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaneMcAlister 1,420 Report post Posted November 21, 2016 We have to get funds from a couple of other stakeholders in our industry. Two suggestions are NZRB and breeders: NZRB costs need reducing, this is a no brainer. 6 months post the great John Allen roadshow nothing has changed. Breeders. I have posted my idea many times before, a service tariff (for want of a better word) would be that all service fees would have a 10% tariff (on top of current rate) that would go to a fund for stake money. If 5,000 services a year with average service fee of $5,000 (this is conservative I believe) then that would be $2,500,000 increase in stake money. $50K a week. I would have no hesitation paying an extra 10% on my service fee if I knew it was going back into stakes. The idea being if we get more funds into prize money etc we can go this product again. Lets stop trying to take a bigger slice of a reducing pie and instead increase the pie for all. gary1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gubellini 3,923 Report post Posted November 21, 2016 shane English stallion owners are levied a% of stallion fees. As a result £1.63 million has gone into stakes this English Flat Season. In the first quarter of this year they increased stakes by 9% compared to the corresponding quarter last year. gary1 and shaneMcAlister 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...