a t lowe

[what a post 811]

I see this fellow got suspended for 8 weeks for apparently over driving his horse today. Was It not more a mistake of putting his horse in a race it should never have been in? personally thought he was a bit hard done by.  Thought his drive on this horse at forbury. was far worse than todays,yet he only got a fine for that.   Thought the drive that should have been looked at was the one on eamon Maguire at forbury.,the $1.10 win favourite.    Sure nothing sinister in it,but you would have thought d dunn would have at least been questioned. Reading the stipe  report for that forbury race it noted eamon Maguire was forced wider when improving on the final bend. If they are going to note every horse forced a bit wider when improving from the back with 400m to run then there should be a lot more noted in the stipes report.

[Happy Sunrise 554]

The horse was out of its class and the driver too if we are honest.

He got caught in difficult circumstances because Dexter was never handing up because the Purdon runners would have put him 3 and 4 back. 

There was nothing he could do apart from trying to restrain his horse, which he couldn't so he gets a long holiday.

I thought Nathan Williamson's drive on Pay Me Art at Gore last week could have been looked at, especially when stable runners were in the trail and one-one. Nothing like parking out the fav at all costs! His horse could barely run 150m out. Nathan is such a good driver which made this drive so uncharacteristically bad in my opinion. 

Rule 868(2) failed to take all reasonable measures to ensure his horse finished in the best possible placing.

[Shad 1,554]

Totally agree with you, just read stipes report then watched race, a shocking suspension i feel given the leader had no intention of handing up, why wasn't he questioned given his tactics, and what was the parked horse to do. Another case of the poor old battling owner trainer getting the rough end of the pineapple, had he made the front, nothing would have been said, had a senior horseman been driving him, be a warning if anything. I guess at least he didn't bear the brunt of a fine as well, i just wish abit of leniency could be shown.

[final luca 189]

if you don't give these guys a chance at driving.. racing in general will be like training....top dozen getting all the cream... it will become a drying industry... seen a couple of pro drivers  drive like dick shits over the weekend, is that acceptable ? always said we need to look at those giving out these suspensions...   honesty... consistency . fairness. something we do not see... unless your name is..... ####   #####.   (magic saga) top stables.  most of you won't agree, which is fair... but then so is my opinion.. fair, honest and consistent  and uncorrupt

 

 

[2Piper 408]

As far as I can see ; Sandra Keith ran his fastest mile-rate of his career so  the performance of the horse can not be questioned. As for the driver , I too think he did all he could do with the position he found himself in. This race was one of the fastest races run on the day considering  the distance. This horse is a maiden with average ability and faced Purdon runners . Winner likely to run in Group 1 company. We have critised the likes of  Neil Brady, Ken Barron, Alan Clark and even Clint Ford in the past for putting their horses into the race like this in the past. Give Alister Lowe a break

[rangi 73]

8 minutes ago, final luca said:

if you don't give these guys a chance at driving.. racing in general will be like training....top dozen getting all the cream... it will become a drying industry... seen a couple of pro drivers  drive like dick shits over the weekend, is that acceptable ? always said we need to look at those giving out these suspensions...   honesty... consistency . fairness. something we do not see... unless your name is..... ####   #####.   (magic saga) top stables.  most of you won't agree, which is fair... but then so is my opinion.. fair, honest and consistent  and uncorrupt

 

 

totally agree, it happens in races here in Auckland as well where senior drivers do not get questioned and the wee fellas get shafted. The leader run 3rd and the best horse won the race, If Mr Lowe wasn't in the race would the back runners had a chance? after a lot of the racing in the weekend the slow quarter rule in oz may need to come into nz racing

[Happy Sunrise 554]

just to clarify one of my points.

both horse and driver were out of their class but so what!

most of the horses were in the same category today.. outclassed.

if they werent there, harness would be finished!

give me a great days racing at methven, oamaru or the west coast over the likes of ashburton today anytime

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Happy Sunrise said:

just to clarify one of my points.

both horse and driver were out of their class but so what!

most of the horses were in the same category today.. outclassed.

if they werent there, harness would be finished!

give me a great days racing at methven, oamaru or the west coast over the likes of ashburton today anytime

Totally agree regards the racing at Ashburton today being average with All Stars totally dominating once again.

Pretty pointless bookmakers offering fixed odds win on these days on any other horses other than the AllStars as they are hardly going to win!

They call it the Racing Integrity Unit that the Stipes are involved with.

They should be disgusted with the handing down of 8 weeks to a real battler in the industry.

Yes it was a bit of a shocker but this sort of drives happens a lot.

I have seen Dexter drive some of these many times and yet nothing whatsoever is said.

Clearly there is favoutism given to certain people in the industry and we see others that are victimised all the time , without naming.

Consistency and fairness is what the industry is lacking too often.

Harsh but true.

 

[hsvman 294]

Totally unfair to suspend him. It wasnt as if he was in a proper speed dual and chasing the horse up. The gaps didn't open up in the field so the other drivers weren't to concerned at the tempo they were running. More of a case on the hose being in a feild too strong for it and then ending up keen while in the worst postion. The rui should have a lot to answer for the stipes consistency and countless obvious mistakes lately Especailly in the north .it's turning into a joke. Friday night at Cambridge was one of the worse causes of incompetences and the chair stipe decided to go for a lessor charge because the initial charge could have a heavy penalty. Surely that's not teaching anyone and is a complete turnoff for punters. 

[Racing84 254]

Yip, sets a dangerous precedent now doesn't it?  If you get parked out and don't win, you're getting a suspension.  Or, if you have a dip for the lead and don't get there, and then don't win, you're getting a suspension.  Crazy.

 

Regularly see drivers push forward to try and get the front when they're parked out.  Some of the drivers handing up the lead in these situations are doing their horses the greater disservice, especially when the one they're handing to is likely to immediately hand up to another.

 

 

[Shad 1,554]

Almost seems the powers don't want the battling driver in the game, you see it quite often they get hammered for minor indiscretions, its a shame and has been said all should be treated the same way, you don't see many senior drivers suspended, plenty of warnings and comments noted, but little action, the days of the stalwarts of the game are numbered as it is, but these tough suspensions certainly won't help. 

[GoHarness 33]

Thought it was great to see Dexter not getting his own way in front for a change. It looks like you are not allowed to pressure the horse in front now......Setting a precedent if Dexter or any driver is leading in future races how can anyone attack without thinking they will be put out for doing so. 

[Guest]

The main issue once again is consistency, and time and time again there isn't any.

I would expect that as the Stipes are full time employees they need to be professional and at least look like they are competent.

Sadly, I don't beleive that too many have got much confidence in the current crop.

Not going to quote the many ridiculous decisions that this bunch of Stipes have made over the past few years as there has been heaps.

I know they are nice blokes, but surely we can expect better than this?

[cantab matt 134]

Brodie, what involvement have the stipes got with Lowe's suspension? 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, cantab matt said:

Brodie, what involvement have the stipes got with Lowe's suspension? 

The Stipes questioned Mr Lowe and then charged him!

If they had not charged him then the JCA wouldn't have upheld the charge.

Should Mr Lowe have been charged?

If there was any consistency then Mr Lowe would not have been charged at all.

I have stated many times previously, if you are going to charge drivers for not giving your horse every opportunity then the Stipes are going to very busy.

As a punter I would prefer my horse that I have backed sit parked and stop than be deliberately get locked up on the fence still waiting for a run.

Mr Lowe only drives his own horses generally, and probably not the most competent out there but there are so many others out there as well, but we obviously aren't allowed to name then are we?

[cantab matt 134]

Yes and the JCA thought the charge to be sufficient to determine guilt and therefore upheld the charge. The power is in the hands of the JCA they could of dismissed the charge of evidence was insufficient. 

Im my opinion the suspension was warranted and the term appropriate- what isn't appropriate though was the pathetic JCA imposed penalty on Robert Argue, he should of also got a couple of months..... This isn't the fault of the stipes though 

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, cantab matt said:

Yes and the JCA thought the charge to be sufficient to determine guilt and therefore upheld the charge. The power is in the hands of the JCA they could of dismissed the charge of evidence was insufficient. 

Im my opinion the suspension was warranted and the term appropriate- what isn't appropriate though was the pathetic JCA imposed penalty on Robert Argue, he should of also got a couple of months..... This isn't the fault of the stipes though 

Yes the charge was upheld by the JCA.

So as others have said, if a driver sits parked in future as he can't get to the front, and stops, is that driver going to get charged as well?

If The driver of the one in front had handed up, then there wouldn't have been any charges, would there?

Could the front running  driver be charged with aiding and abetting?

I would say you won't see any more of this type of charge again for a very long time.

If this is now their  policy then let's see the Stipes enforce it to all, and not the minnows.

Are the Stipes also going to charge the drivers that go from the one one, to along the fence, as in my humble opinion, that is also driving to not give your horse every chance!!! 

 

 

 

[cantab matt 134]

yes but in my opinion he didn't just sit parked. He had an initial go for the the lead which was fair enough. After finding the lead wasn't available he made at least two other attempts to force the pace. Horses didn't latch on either in my opinion- as was his defense. Horse actually travelled ok to my eye..

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, cantab matt said:

yes but in my opinion he didn't just sit parked. He had an initial go for the the lead which was fair enough. After finding the lead wasn't available he made at least two other attempts to force the pace. Horses didn't latch on either in my opinion- as was his defense. Horse actually travelled ok to my eye..

You are right that the horse didn't seem to be pulling.

No, it wasn't a great drive, but then he probably never drives great, like a lot of others.

We want consistency.

[Toblerone 242]

20 hours ago, rangi said:

 and the best horse won the race

says you. 3rd horse very highly regarded and a superb performance. Winner obvious ability but all favours.

[Toblerone 242]

19 hours ago, Brodie said:

Totally agree regards the racing at Ashburton today being average with All Stars totally dominating once again.

Pretty pointless bookmakers offering fixed odds win on these days on any other horses other than the AllStars as they are hardly going to win!

They call it the Racing Integrity Unit that the Stipes are involved with.

They should be disgusted with the handing down of 8 weeks to a real battler in the industry.

Yes it was a bit of a shocker but this sort of drives happens a lot.

I have seen Dexter drive some of these many times and yet nothing whatsoever is said.

Clearly there is favoutism given to certain people in the industry and we see others that are victimised all the time , without naming.

Consistency and fairness is what the industry is lacking too often.

Harsh but true.

 

Your point about consistency aside, I contend that the 8 weeks was justified. The few people who backed Sandra Keith never got a fair go. Why would Dexter hand up to a horse paying $124 on a highly-regarded 3YO?

[Toblerone 242]

1 hour ago, cantab matt said:

This isn't the fault of the stipes though 

Actually, it kind of is. The JCA reports mentions the prosecuting Steward Mr Mulcay basically went with a reduced/lesser charge as he thought the penalty for an improper driving charge would be too severe.
 

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, Toblerone said:

Your point about consistency aside, I contend that the 8 weeks was justified. The few people who backed Sandra Keith never got a fair go. Why would Dexter hand up to a horse paying $124 on a highly-regarded 3YO?

Can't see it being justified though, as other drivers who have driven shockers have not even got warned!

Seriously, would anyone have backed Sandra Keith in that field?

No Dexter would never have handed to Mr Lowe, but sometimes when he should,hand up, he doesn't and his horse stops.

Is that a drive that is giving your horse every possible chance??

[what a post 811]

 

25 minutes ago, Toblerone said:

Your point about consistency aside, I contend that the 8 weeks was justified. The few people who backed Sandra Keith never got a fair go. Why would Dexter hand up to a horse paying $124 on a highly-regarded 3YO?

You refer to the people who backed Sandra keith. Lets face it,anyone who backed Sandra keith would have had no idea about form anyway. We all knew he had no chance in that field.  The charge was he diminished his horses chances. I think he could easily have argued that his horse finished closer to the winner by driving it at a consistent speed like he did.   His horse has probably run the fastest 2400m of its life.   Even if he was perry mason some jcas place little weight on what a small timer has to say,,sometimes irrespective of video evidence.    What about the example of Eamon McGuire I gave. That was an obvious case of driving in a way that diminished its chances. Driver was not even questioned. Having said that,personally I don't think the stipes pick on the small fella in Canterbury,and I do think mr lowes drive deserved a warning. Maybe his some of his previous drives had not helped him.

[hsvman 294]

2 hours ago, cantab matt said:

Yes and the JCA thought the charge to be sufficient to determine guilt and therefore upheld the charge. The power is in the hands of the JCA they could of dismissed the charge of evidence was insufficient. 

Im my opinion the suspension was warranted and the term appropriate- what isn't appropriate though was the pathetic JCA imposed penalty on Robert Argue, he should of also got a couple of months..... This isn't the fault of the stipes though 

Related Items

21 Oct 2016
Harness-Racing-Waikato - R 5

HR WAIKATO 21 OCTOBER 2016 - R 5 - CHAIR, MR A GODSALVE

Created on 23 October 2016

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Rules:

Rule 869(7A)(a) & (b), and Track Marker Regulations

Committee:

AGodsalve (chair) 
ADooley 

 

Name(s):

Mr R Argue - Junior Driver
Mr S Argue - Trianer of PRECIOUS MOMENT assisting Mr R Argue

Informant

Mr S Mulcay - Stipendiary Steward

Information Number

A3741

Plea:

Admitted

Charge:

Racing inside Track Markers

Evidence:

Following the running of Race 5, the FURNWARE INDUSTRIES BODYFURN MOBILE TROT,  an Information was presented by Mr Mulcay alleging that Junior Driver, Mr R Argue failed to comply with the Track Marker Regulations by allowing the mare PRECIOUS MOMENT to contact track markers and race inside the marker line in excess of 100 metres.

This incident had been the subject of an earlier Protest hearing when PRECIOUS MOMENT had been disqualified from 1st placing in the race.

Mr R Argue, assisted by Mr S Argue, was present at the hearing and acknowledged that he understood the Rules and Regulations and that he admitted the breach.

Rule 869(7A) provides that 'Every horseman who moves inwards shall ensure (a) that contact is not made with any track marker, and (b) that any part of the sulky does not protrude inside the marker line'.

The Track Marker Regulations refer to placing and positioning of Track Markers, the relevant sub-Regulation is:

(7) If a horse shifts inside the running line of the Track Markers, the driver of such horse shall restrain it and regain its position on the outside of the running line at the first vacant position, without causing interference to other runners. The driver of any horse who in the opinion of the Stipendiary Stewards fails to take this required corrective action, may be considered to be in breach of Rule 869(3)(f).

Using the available films Mr Mulcay demonstrated that as PRECIOUS MOMENT entered the home straight in second place, Mr Argue had angled inwards towards the passing lane. From there until the finish, the horse had contacted several markers, and had raced with its sulky wheel inside a number of marker pegs. Mr Mulcay said the Stewards estimated that the horse had run at least 100 metres with a wheel inside marker pegs. Mr Mulcay added that Mr Argue was therefore in breach of the Rule and Regulations which formed the basis of this charge.

Mr R Argue said that it was obvious from the films that he had breached the Rules. 

Decision:

As Mr Argue has admitted this breach we find the charge proved.

Submission For Penalty:

Mr Mulcay stated that when considering a charge in this matter the Stewards had initially considered that Mr Argue should be charged with Improper driving. However, given the likely penalty involved, Mr Mulcay said that a charge under a lesser Rule was considered appropriate.

He produced Mr Argue's driving record which showed no prior breaches of this Rule. The Stewards believed that the fact that a disqualification from 1st placing was a major aggravating feature in this matter. Mr Mulcay said that Mr Argue has had 35 drives so far this season, and added that the Stewards submitted that a period of suspension would be an appropriate penalty in this matter. He made reference to the JCA Penalty Guide which calls for starting points of a 2 drive suspension or a fine of $100; or a 4 drive suspension or a fine of $200 for breaches of the Rules in question.

Mr S Argue asked the Committee to consider that the ranks of Junior Drivers in the North Island were quite thin and said that he thought a suspension would be a harsh penalty. He asked that the Committee consider imposing a fine instead.

Mr R Argue asked that the Committee consider a 7 day deferment until after 28th October if a suspension was to be imposed. He added that he had driven at Palmerston North in the past and intended doing so again at the upcoming meetings.

Reasons For Penalty:

The Committee took into account the submissions of the parties. It is clear that the disqualification referred to is an aggravating feature. We accept that Mr Argue has admitted this breach, and that he has not previously breached this Rule. However his actions in driving inside marker pegs for such a distance, and being disqualified from 1st place, clearly suggest that a fine would not be an appropriate penalty. The JCA starting points for these Rules both have suspensions as an option along with fines as pointed out above.

Penalty:

We therefore suspend Mr Argues driving license from after racing at Alexandra Park on 28 October until after racing at Palmerston North on 5th November 2016, a 3 day penalty.

We grant Mr Argue a deferment of his penalty to allow him to drive at Cambridge on 27 October and Alexandra Park on 28 October 2016.

 

Looking under the submissions of penatly the stipes decided to choose the lessor charge so it would seem it is the fault of the stipes that the penalty is so low

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