Does this not scream all weather track needed

[Midget 4,489]

1 hour ago, Sickopunter said:

Hong Kong has a lot more rainfall than we do? Got some stats on that?

I agree their surfaces are exceptional

It's described as a tropical monsoon climate.

The data is self explanatory but clearly it's both wetter, and has far more concentrated ( heavier ) rainfall.

[porky 900]

I couldn,t give a stuff about the state of a few tracks up North after a bit of rain.

Evens the chances of a few runners.../ negates the front runners Bias of good/hard tracks...providing better odds for astute punters.

Waste of Industry money that could prop stakes up a bit, to revive interest in a share of horse ownership.  

[rdytdy 5,341]

1 hour ago, Midget said:

It's described as a tropical monsoon climate.

The data is self explanatory but clearly it's both wetter, and has far more concentrated ( heavier ) rainfall.

Hong Kong also has the advantage of the heat and humidity to greatly assist with the drying.  

[Midget 4,489]

31 minutes ago, porky said:

I couldn,t give a stuff about the state of a few tracks up North after a bit of rain.

Evens the chances of a few runners.../ negates the front runners Bias of good/hard tracks...providing better odds for astute punters.

Waste of Industry money that could prop stakes up a bit, to revive interest in a share of horse ownership.  

If stakes increases are the panacea why didn't we see an increase in ownership after the Fairtax relief ?

Secondariy why don't we see capacity fields in Sydney and Melbourne when stakes are so good and they pay back to tenth ?

Thirdly, please explain why Ruakaka gets capacity fields ( they provide a good surface ) but equivalent meetings scheduled on dairy farms get half the noms.

No hysterical responses, no anecdotes, just facts please.

[Trump 2,741]

Maybe there is no clear answer for NZ ? So if stakes are a major issue, why not start up a NZ equivelant of the China Horse Club, based in country NSW ? You could get kiwi owners to invest and have their horses trained and raced in NSW. Get a couple of proven kiwi trainers to run it, pay them a wage, have the right people buying the horses (not just overpriced ones!) and have a few hundred kiwi owners involved. Call it the "Shakey Isles Horse Syndicate".

[porky 900]

A.....maidens were still 7 k and not everyone treats horse ownership as a business.

B....Don,t know...They are spoil t for choice and 4th to winx by 20 lenghts to pay for training for a few months

(save the embarrasment) for a good check is still 4th  to winx.

C....Waikato predominantly breeders wanting to cash in on good tracks  / Ruakaka , realistic people, drains nice.   

[rdytdy 5,341]

15 minutes ago, Midget said:

If stakes increases are the panacea why didn't we see an increase in ownership after the Fairtax relief ?

Secondariy why don't we see capacity fields in Sydney and Melbourne when stakes are so good and they pay back to tenth ?

Thirdly, please explain why Ruakaka gets capacity fields ( they provide a good surface ) but equivalent meetings scheduled on dairy farms get half the noms.

No hysterical responses, no anecdotes, just facts please.

Because only a percentage went into stakes and at the wrong end. They went into the top spectrum which was a waste. The bottom tier is what needed lifting so more owners got a bit of the pie. 

[Midget 4,489]

16 minutes ago, Trump said:

Maybe there is no clear answer for NZ ? So if stakes are a major issue, why not start up a NZ equivelant of the China Horse Club, based in country NSW ? You could get kiwi owners to invest and have their horses trained and raced in NSW. Get a couple of proven kiwi trainers to run it, pay them a wage, have the right people buying the horses (not just overpriced ones!) and have a few hundred kiwi owners involved. Call it the "Shakey Isles Horse Syndicate".

NZ is fucked because there has been no reinvestment in infrastructure, and no investment in R & D Trump.

Now we're producing a third world product, yet we're competing on a global stage against superior providers.

The only way forward is to increase revenue and profit by selling more product, then investing the profits wisely to grow a healthy industry.

Unfortunately we need to produce a better product in order to sell more of it.

There's the conundrum.

Note I've simplified things for convenience otherwise I'd be writing a tome but I would like to close with one comment.

As long as those running racing get to draw their salaries off the top we'll never remedy our problems because those people are comfortable, they neither care nor have a reason to care because they get well paid regardless of the state of the industry and it's participants ( as in those who put on the show ).

Only when those in suits get to feel the pain and struggle to pay their bills will we see constructive change. It's called accountability Trump.

[Midget 4,489]

If you're completely honest about this ( let's be really honest, it's fun ) you'd admit that racetracks shouldn't really exist within city boundaries because the land is too valuable and they're not adjacent to large horse populations..

Oddly enough the worst tracks in NZ are generally within the city boundaries, and they're sitting on valuable land that should arguably be cashed up, then reinvested into world class alternative facilities on lesser value land but closer to horse populations.

The tracks that should go because they're so badly flawed with significant problems, or just out of date, are ;

Trentham, just a badly managed disaster from a bygone age, facilities are fucked, and the track itself is worse.

Awapuni, when you build low between a meandering stream and a rubbish dump, on bad ground, well you get what you deserve.

Counties, as King Canute found ( his name is actually Cnut and that's close to what Counties is ) you cannot control the tide or the water level, so if you build in a swampy hollow on clay and mud you'll generally get a swampy muddy hollow no matter how you dress it up.

Ellerslie, mainly by neglect and no reinvestment but their track is really fucked. 

Riccarton, the constitution of the track is stuffed and despite their best efforts they can't seem to get it right so maybe they should relocate to "user friendly" soil.

It'd be remiss of me not to rate the excellent and safe tracks in NZ, although many of them need improved facilities and upgrades.

Ruakaka, Taupo, Kumara, and the various sand based, peat or loose textured soil options, e.g. Tauranga, Whanganui et al... .

 

 

[porky 900]

Fuck Midget you,ve opened a can of worms there...Don,t play into their hands mate!...

I,m going to sit back, enjoy the abuse and just see what comes of this post...Over and out

[Guest 2Admin2]

2 hours ago, rdytdy said:

Hong Kong also has the advantage of the heat and humidity to greatly assist with the drying.  

Sorry to correct you Ted but the higher the humidity the longer it takes to dry.  Basic law of physics you can't get more water into the air than 100% relative to dewpoint.  When dewpoint is reached it rains.  The higher the temperature the more water the air can hold by volume hence some air is denser than others.  Note Hong Kong doesn't race between the first week of July and the end of the first week of September.

[bazach 133]

Great post Midget. We have too many tracks, and too little money to upgrade facilities to the level the public expect in the 21st century. We have greatly changed how towns and cities operate with great roads and fast cars. Having areas like Waikato with four courses, all within 45 minutes drive of each other, and all having what I call 1970s facilities is not going to engender any interest whatsoever in racing from the younger generations. Pooling resources, selling off, or retaining sources for training only if applicable, and buying an unimproved rural property to build a top class racing and equine facility - which would also have function rooms non racing people would want to use, may sound radical, but isn't it needed for the survival and rejuvenation of the industry?

[Midget 4,489]

1 minute ago, bazach said:

Great post Midget. We have too many tracks, and too little money to upgrade facilities to the level the public expect in the 21st century. We have greatly changed how towns and cities operate with great roads and fast cars. Having areas like Waikato with four courses, all within 45 minutes drive of each other, and all having what I call 1970s facilities is not going to engender any interest whatsoever in racing from the younger generations. Pooling resources, selling off, or retaining sources for training only if applicable, and buying an unimproved rural property to build a top class racing and equine facility - which would also have function rooms non racing people would want to use, may sound radical, but isn't it needed for the survival and rejuvenation of the industry?

You're a smart guy whomever you are.

Clearly you've got a very good grasp on what's required, and it's actually a very simple solution, so why can't those who dictate the industry direction grasp this simple concept ?

Are you into racing politics ? If you're not you should be.

[Guest 2Admin2]

There is another option and that is to intensify the use of tracks such as Ellerslie and Trentham aka like Hong Kong with resident horse populations and training facilities.  However with Ellerslie that opportunity is long gone and resource consents would be impossible to get.  Trentham has over the years wound back any training facilities they have and I doubt many horses gallop there other than on raceday.  So yeah I guess release the capital and build something purpose built somewhere else.

[Shad 1,554]

What the go on oamaru been canned today.

[Midget 4,489]

11 minutes ago, Shad said:

What the go on oamaru been canned today.

Officially, abandoned due to state of the track.

 

[Shad 1,554]

Thanks. That's a shame, usually a good surface down there, must to good with abit of moisture chucked in.

[Trump 2,741]

What Bazach proposes Midgie has been advocated by many of us for many many years. Look at Trentham. What a joke. There's no horse population, no punters, no race goers. Foxton = excellent natural drainage, easy access, plenty of room. Great horse population within one hour, country people who love racing. Sell Awapuni, Trentham and invest in Foxton with track upgrade ( straight 1200m, etc, new stables and new patrons facilities (eg, Sunshine Coast) with Grandstand on opposite side of the track. Build accom on the track precinct, (tow houses) for participants to rent or buy. It goes on and on. But it will never happen - vested interests, govt that doesn't give a stuff and NZTR who doesn't know what to do, Betting landscape that is 15 years behind where it should be ...

[bazach 133]

3 hours ago, Midget said:

You're a smart guy whomever you are.

Clearly you've got a very good grasp on what's required, and it's actually a very simple solution, so why can't those who dictate the industry direction grasp this simple concept ?

Are you into racing politics ? If you're not you should be.

Midget, I was having this conversation in Taranaki over 35 years ago, and they still have race-courses at Wanganui, Waverley, Hawera, Stratford, and New Plymouth. In this case they aren't quite one hour from any of the others as the other three are between New Plymouth and Wanganui - it's a drive of just under 2 hours between Wanganui and New Plymouth. But the population base for this whole area is far less than the Waikato and there are five courses. There is always historical parochial interest in keeping your own track, and I don't blame locals for their sentiments, however misguided they are, but it does make it hard for them to see the big picture, that racing isn't what it was in the 1960s and 1970s. It's interesting that growing up in Hawera in the 1960s and 1970s, the town was bustling and all shops were occupied with 'proper' retail outlets. Now, although the population of Hawera hasn't gone down, the shopping area is deserted. Why? Simply because people don't think twice about hopping in their car, travelling down a great road, and going to New Plymouth or Wanganui to shop, and they don't think anything of living in New Plymouth or Wanganui and driving an hour to work at the large Fonterra plant at Hawera. So people interested in racing will still go if there were one or two 'decent' tracks in this region. Again, as with the Waikato it needs a pooling of resources, and leadership, not dictatorship, from above.

[bazach 133]

1 hour ago, Trump said:

What Bazach proposes Midgie has been advocated by many of us for many many years. Look at Trentham. What a joke. There's no horse population, no punters, no race goers. Foxton = excellent natural drainage, easy access, plenty of room. Great horse population within one hour, country people who love racing. Sell Awapuni, Trentham and invest in Foxton with track upgrade ( straight 1200m, etc, new stables and new patrons facilities (eg, Sunshine Coast) with Grandstand on opposite side of the track. Build accom on the track precinct, (tow houses) for participants to rent or buy. It goes on and on. But it will never happen - vested interests, govt that doesn't give a stuff and NZTR who doesn't know what to do, Betting landscape that is 15 years behind where it should be ...

Hi Trump, You are right about the Sunshine Coast track, no crappy ancient concrete edifice facing south, no brown carpet, formica tables and chairs or toilets that are stained or don't flush etc etc. The terraced and shaded viewing areas are lovely, and it just feels good being there!.

[Guest 2Admin2]

14 minutes ago, bazach said:

Midget, I was having this conversation in Taranaki over 35 years ago, and they still have race-courses at Wanganui, Waverley, Hawera, Stratford, and New Plymouth. In this case they aren't quite one hour from any of the others as the other three are between New Plymouth and Wanganui - it's a drive of just under 2 hours between Wanganui and New Plymouth. But the population base for this whole area is far less than the Waikato and there are five courses. There is always historical parochial interest in keeping your own track, and I don't blame locals for their sentiments, however misguided they are, but it does make it hard for them to see the big picture, that racing isn't what it was in the 1960s and 1970s. It's interesting that growing up in Hawera in the 1960s and 1970s, the town was bustling and all shops were occupied with 'proper' retail outlets. Now, although the population of Hawera hasn't gone down, the shopping area is deserted. Why? Simply because people don't think twice about hopping in their car, travelling down a great road, and going to New Plymouth or Wanganui to shop, and they don't think anything of living in New Plymouth or Wanganui and driving an hour to work at the large Fonterra plant at Hawera. So people interested in racing will still go if there were one or two 'decent' tracks in this region. Again, as with the Waikato it needs a pooling of resources, and leadership, not dictatorship, from above.

I asked a senior CD jockey once which of those tracks did he rate as the best in terms of a racing surface for horses - he surprised me by putting Hawera first and New Plymouth last.  With the latter he said the inside always goes off real quick.

[billy connolly 63]

4 hours ago, Midget said:

Clearly you've got a very good grasp on what's required, and it's actually a very simple solution, so why can't those who dictate the industry direction grasp this simple concept ?

Because they're "all tarred with the same brush." The personnel you're referring to are commonly known as social climbers. They're only concerned for their own CV's so won't associate with common men / woman.

I think it's too late to resurrect this game, and it can't / won't be done by social climbers with big tickets!