We're Doomed 4,824 Report post Posted September 14, 2016 As I am not too closely involved with racing personalities these days Chris, can you enlighten me who the intelligent and influential trainers and administrators are that need to be got on board if industry participants are to start having some influence. dock leaf 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldcape 43 Report post Posted September 17, 2016 On 9/14/2016 at 9:22 AM, hesi said: I guess it is about numbers, any group wanting to effect change need to get the numbers together to get people to sit up and take note. There are, 30,000??? people employed in the Racing industry, so you'd want a petition with 25,000 signatures on. The logistics of that is very difficult, but at least with it being online now, it is made easier Yes, the right wording is very important, it needs to be articulated very clearly what the concerns are and what the call to action is. Also in language that will get on board even the moderates and conservatives in the industry. The support of a few respected industry heavy weights would also be essential. I was reading Roger James background on NZTR this morning as he is rolling out his horses today, and even a relative conservative like him has concerns Copied from his Q&A 14. What changes would you like to see in racing: I WOULD LIKE TO SEE OUR GOVERNMENT RECOGNISE RACING AS AN INDUSTRY THAT IS IMPORTANT TO NEW ZEALAND AND TREAT IT ACCORDINGLY. This Government isn't interested in saving industries. They want replacement industries. We know whats replacing racing just as we know whats taken the place of a strong manufacturing industry. They believe the "market" will decide. Besides, why would the racing industry be any more important than the now defunct clothing or car manufacturing industries. The days of ruby, racing and beer are sunset industries. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryb 2,062 Report post Posted September 17, 2016 2 terrible examples, the clothing and Car manufacturing industries in NZ were only ever competitive due to massive sales taxes. The introduction of GST and the removal of sales tax put those industries under and thankfully so as they were never economic to stand on their own. Racing problems are fairly straight forward, its just there is no will for change. 1) it doesn't have a level playing field when compared to other gambling options. 2)It comprises the manufacture, wholesale & retail of the product, the problem here is the manufacturer controls the market too much. 3) Lack of investment in R & D. 4) The industry needed de-regulating in the 80s when lotto came on board. 5) No common purpose. Quick wins. 1) Get rid of trials other than for jumpers. Horses should not be able to leave these shores without a race day appearance, other than unbroken or 2yr olds who have not trialled or raced. 2) Remove 4th & 5th prize money and roll that up into the first 3 for maiden races to assist making them min $10k 3) set up more bonus series races like the Pearl Series, Dunstan feeds. Say Majestic Horse Floats midweek series for maiden and rating 65 grade for example. 4) Support on course only punters competitions with good prize money and a targeted end of year major prize. 5) Trainers/jockeys with fewer than 20 wins previous season eligible for trainers/jockeys bonus series, quarterly bonus series based on prize money won and/or SR. 6) Owners receive universal free entry card to all race meetings whether horse is racing or not. 7) First time owners, when there horse first races to receive a welcome to ownership pack (binoculars, a betting voucher, etc) min 10% ownership. A thank you letter from NZ Racing valuing their investment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
biff 2,158 Report post Posted September 17, 2016 2 hours ago, barryb said: 2 terrible examples, the clothing and Car manufacturing industries in NZ were only ever competitive due to massive sales taxes. The introduction of GST and the removal of sales tax put those industries under and thankfully so as they were never economic to stand on their own. Racing problems are fairly straight forward, its just there is no will for change. 1) it doesn't have a level playing field when compared to other gambling options. 2)It comprises the manufacture, wholesale & retail of the product, the problem here is the manufacturer controls the market too much. 3) Lack of investment in R & D. 4) The industry needed de-regulating in the 80s when lotto came on board. 5) No common purpose. Quick wins. 1) Get rid of trials other than for jumpers. Horses should not be able to leave these shores without a race day appearance, other than unbroken or 2yr olds who have not trialled or raced. 2) Remove 4th & 5th prize money and roll that up into the first 3 for maiden races to assist making them min $10k 3) set up more bonus series races like the Pearl Series, Dunstan feeds. Say Majestic Horse Floats midweek series for maiden and rating 65 grade for example. 4) Support on course only punters competitions with good prize money and a targeted end of year major prize. 5) Trainers/jockeys with fewer than 20 wins previous season eligible for trainers/jockeys bonus series, quarterly bonus series based on prize money won and/or SR. 6) Owners receive universal free entry card to all race meetings whether horse is racing or not. 7) First time owners, when there horse first races to receive a welcome to ownership pack (binoculars, a betting voucher, etc) min 10% ownership. A thank you letter from NZ Racing valuing their investment. You forgot the most important inclusion Baz, starters bonus, incentive, same as Oz and every other country in the developed world.........even if it's only 200 bucks, but they pay back to 10th in most races over the ditch as well, with no acceptance fees and the club pays the jock.......why not here>? what the hell is wrong with the owners assoc? for God's sake. ? Irishbay and gubellini 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Boned 32 Report post Posted September 18, 2016 Are you all talking subsidies? Looking after each other? A co-operative? Or union? Cant believe it.Your a bunch of 'Not in my backyarders'. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggy 4,007 Report post Posted September 18, 2016 On 13/09/2016 at 0:40 PM, Midget said: I do not know if this is correct,but have been told that M&T Stokes are the next training team to put up the white flag and discontinue with training,as stated not sure if this correct,but if so then it will be a big gap to fill with horse numbers in the SI. snr http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/racing/84381805/Tarsha-and-Michael-Stokes-wind-up-training-operation Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2Admin2 Report post Posted September 18, 2016 7 hours ago, Big Boned said: Are you all talking subsidies? Looking after each other? A co-operative? Or union? Cant believe it.Your a bunch of 'Not in my backyarders'. I assume when you are talking about subsidies you are talking about the request for "free racing"? Personally I find the term "free racing" a misnomer and as such a label that doesn't match the intent of the request. Put simply why should an owner have to pay fees to enter their horse into a race from which the rest of the industry stakeholders benefit disproportionately from? That isn't an owner subsidy it is a fat cat subsidy of those who have very little skin in the game and/or accountability. I guess owners could withdraw their product from NZ racing which they are doing by a thousand cuts however I see that as having no impact on those who lack accountability. They will continue to earn revenue from non-racing sources such as pokies and sports. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
biff 2,158 Report post Posted September 18, 2016 How hard is it to replicate the business model the Aussie's use/follow, how hard?..........they just don't want to, and someone, somewhere needs to be accountable for that. It's pass the parcel at HQ.......Allen needs to kick some arse, it's beyond him. Anyone who runs their own business [successfully] knows how incentives works, if at least something is being seen to be done, then a small window of hope and opportunity opens. Sadly to lose people like the Stokes and Belshams to name just a few, is a tragedy. gubellini 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaneMcAlister 1,420 Report post Posted September 18, 2016 This industry cannot even agree in what races to raise stakes. Some want the top end races increased, others the lower end. To me this is a no brainer, raise the lower end stakes. chevy86 and We're Doomed 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggy 4,007 Report post Posted September 18, 2016 4 hours ago, 2Admin2 said: I assume when you are talking about subsidies you are talking about the request for "free racing"? Personally I find the term "free racing" a misnomer and as such a label that doesn't match the intent of the request. Put simply why should an owner have to pay fees to enter their horse into a race from which the rest of the industry stakeholders benefit disproportionately from? That isn't an owner subsidy it is a fat cat subsidy of those who have very little skin in the game and/or accountability. I guess owners could withdraw their product from NZ racing which they are doing by a thousand cuts however I see that as having no impact on those who lack accountability. They will continue to earn revenue from non-racing sources such as pokies and sports. And the races that benefited from that when we had it in place, go much closer to paying their way than the ones the money went to. Generally, it's the other way round, the higher the stakes the greater the subsidy from non-NZ racing sources. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midget 4,489 Report post Posted September 18, 2016 Look at the big picture. The issues are too complex for one person or one entity to resolve, but we do seem to have some sort of consensus that the NZRB and the Racing Act are to blame for the model we have to operate within. Doesn't it thus follow that the Act has to change and the role of the NZRB will thus change with it ? Then we might perhaps look at the codes on an individual basis, well maybe not the dogs, they seem blissfully happy for some reason Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2Admin2 Report post Posted September 18, 2016 5 minutes ago, Leggy said: And the races that benefited from that when we had it in place, go much closer to paying their way than the ones the money went to. Generally, it's the other way round, the higher the stakes the greater the subsidy from non-NZ racing sources. Has anyone done an analysis on the other two codes to see if their stakes distribution is as distorted as the Thorougbreds? Harness seems to have a lower cost to enter a race for one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohokaman 5,760 Report post Posted September 19, 2016 1 hour ago, shaneMcAlister said: This industry cannot even agree in what races to raise stakes. Some want the top end races increased, others the lower end. To me this is a no brainer, raise the lower end stakes. Better have a conversation with Cameron George then Shane.... shaneMcAlister 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooby3051 10,695 Report post Posted September 19, 2016 Richard Collett establishes stable at Warwick Farm NZ RACING DESK Last updated 13:56, September 19 2016 Trish Dunell Richard Collett pictured with daughter Alysha, has established a trans-Tasman stable. Richard Collett has officially become a trans-Tasman trainer. The Pukekohe horseman has been campaigning a small team in New South Wales in recent months and he has now been granted permanent boxes at Warwick Farm. "It' a complex of eight stables and it's building on what we have had there during the winter," Collett said. "I've had three racing – Ventura, Hot Mustard and Untamed Diamond – and I've got a couple of 2-year-olds as well." "We will be looking at sending a couple of maidens over who have showed their worth in New Zealand, but that won't be until after the end of the spring carnival." READ MORE:Jockeys cop fines and suspensions for excessive whip useTarsha and Michael Stokes wind up training operationWinx scratches knee before Group I success Collett said he was looking forward to developing horses at home to the stage where they could then be competitive in Australia. "We've got a lovely property at Pukekohe, which has been good to us and always will be. "It's obviously very good money on offer in Australia and we've got shares in a lot of the horses so we're looking for better financial returns." Collett's son Jason has also successfully established himself in the Sydney riding ranks and his partner Claire Cunningham, who was formerly employed by Peter Moody, has played a major role in the new operation. Ad Feedback "She has set it all up for us and got things organised, she's done a lot of hard work but she didn't want to be tied to a permanent stable so I have employed a stable foreman," Collett said. "Quinton Cassidy started off as an apprentice with Graeme Rogerson and he's worked in China and he's got a lot of experience in New South Wales." During his stint in Asia, Cassidy was the head trainer in China for the powerful China Horse Club. "It is going to be a nice challenge and my wife Judy and I are looking forward to the lifestyle change as well and spending a bit more time over there," Collett said. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kilcoyne 191 Report post Posted September 19, 2016 Some time ago there was a call for a strike. Can anyone tell me what day that is going to be. I could do with a break for a day Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohokaman 5,760 Report post Posted September 21, 2016 On 13 September 2016 at 0:40 PM, Midget said: I do not know if this is correct,but have been told that M&T Stokes are the next training team to put up the white flag and discontinue with training,as stated not sure if this correct,but if so then it will be a big gap to fill with horse numbers in the SI. snr Bloody shame...some of their comments here make it easy to understand. http://i.stuff.co.nz/nz-newspapers/central-north-island/sport/sport-region-6459/84381805/Tarsha-and-Michael-Stokes-wind-up-training-operation Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shad 1,539 Report post Posted September 21, 2016 Tough game alright, but on the upside, look at thier new hobby on the river bank chasing the elusive glaxid species, what a way to start a holiday. elbow 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Boned 32 Report post Posted September 25, 2016 On 9/19/2016 at 7:13 AM, 2Admin2 said: I guess owners could withdraw their product from NZ racing which they are doing by a thousand cuts however I see that as having no impact on those who lack accountability. They will continue to earn revenue from non-racing sources such as pokies and sports. Does that not mean that the people who provide the product are the ones who need to change? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...