Midget

Was Kawi really that good in the Makfi ?

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14 minutes ago, Midget said:

Any experts ( or otherwise ) have an opinion on the Makfi, and the sectionals ?

I'll reserve my judgement ( just yet ) as I don't want to cause a " Red rage " down the Naki way.

My opinion is from the "otherwise" group but my first thought was George's commentary and what I saw didn't seem to match.  I don't think he actually "thrashed them" bearing in mind that most if not all of the field are looking for further.  Obvious disappointing runs aside.

The second and third horses ran faster last 600m.

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Well, he won pretty comfortably Midget so you can't knock the horse or the performance.

Time was nothing special ( 1.24.87 ) on that soft track but good enough to win obviously.

Apart from the placegetters, some good runs in behind looking forward.

Vergara (2.9l) Mime (3.7),Capella (3.8) and Stolen Dance (4.6) will all improve, but so will Kawi.

Haven't heard what happened to Valley Girl, but she was tailed off so something not right there.

image.jpeg

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And herein lies the problem.

Vergara is a black type horse in Ozz, somewhere between a listed stakes race and a bad G3 horse.

She was 6 lengths behind Winx in the Doncaster when in receipt of 6.5kg, so let's say she's about 12kg or 2 seconds inferior to Winx over that trip.

Where does that leave Kawi given that Vergara was a couple of lengths behind him at level weights ?

We all know the NZ racing media wear panties so they won't say it, but I will, that was not a G1 quality race Saturday and if Kawi is to be competitive in Ozz at the top level he'll need to improve about 6-8 lengths, maybe more.

He might of course improve that much, but it's far too soon for all the back slapping and hyperbole isn't it ??

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Kawi was dominant on the day, and has a fantastic record over 1400m.

i think we will get a better gage on a good track and over 1600m , the placing's  (El Pescado/Farm Boy/Longchamp ) all suggests how rain affected that track was (also other winners on the day Miss Appleton/Meeska Mooska etc) and horses like Capella and Stolen Dance looked like the didn't handle the track at all and want further., not hiding the fact that Kawi was dominant on the day.

Outside of the top 3 place getters , Hasselhoof and Stolen Dance had the best last 600m (not much slower than kawi so) and they ended up both in the worst of the track out wide. Will get a better guide over a mile and hopefully on a good track!

what about Valley Girl?, from all reports nothing wrong and has pulled up fine?

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I personally thought it was a good win by Kawi 4 to 5 wide and winning comfortably he was taken forward when required by Lethal and finished them off . There were some good runs from others El Pescador for one and i thought Mimes was a good run didnt get the breaks and was held up she will go better over a bit more ground . 

listened to Mr Sharrock on Des's show this morning very articulate in his comments and he was right in saying he's a very good horse won 12 of 25 starts and 800k but as he said the horse will always have his knockers i for one think he's pretty good wouldn't mind been a shareholder .

 

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Basically, he was clearly the best horse in the race based on previous performances, he was ridden like the best horse in the race, and won like the best horse in the race. He couldn't do anything more really.

Sure the quality wasn't up to an Australian Group 1, but no NZ races are, and haven't been for a while. That wasn't Kawi's fault. It was similar to the Caulfield Group 1 in many ways; the class 1,400m horse won easily and some staying types rattled home for the minors.

I'm not too obsessed with times. At the end of the day there are many variables that affect the overall time and why give him a gut-buster first up.

I am certainly not a cheerleader for the horse, it is just great to have some classy horses racing in NZ. How he measures up in Australia only time will tell. If he is well placed it will be disappointing if he doesn't do well. He doesn't really look like a Cox type to me, but the MacKinnon should be an ideal race for him.

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He's such a good horse over 1400/1600, would a hard 2000m like the MacKinnon at a big track like Flemington find him out, has only had the 2 go's over 2000m in NZ when winning the Zabeel (slow pace and him and Stolen Dance had best turn of foot to finish over the top of them) and a 3rd behind Valley Girl and Stolen Dance in a fast tempo and turned into a slog on the over watered false track at Te Rapa.

Maybe the 1400/1600 is his best distance, will see further on in the season

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The Memsie Stakes was the Australian Group One last Saturday. Interesting comparison.

7 – Group 1 (1400m)

Black Heart Bart (34.31)

Black Heart Bart (11.73)

Analysis: Black Heart Bart was too good on the day for a decent line-up. A smart gallop lead by Charmed Harmony and Tashbeeh led to the race being run in 1:23.93, which was the interesting part. While the race looked to be run at a good clip with a long way from first to last, the time was .23 of a second below average for the Caulfield 1400m course on a good (3) track, which was upgraded earlier in the day. Interestingly, Black Heart Bart’s Group I win was almost 2.7 seconds slower than the time posted for his Group III Victoria Handicap win over the same course in March. Palentino (34.32) turned in an excellent last 600m but the timing mechanism failed for his last 200m. Alpine Eagle (34.94 / 12.06), Sofia Rosa (34.94 / 11.98) and Tally (34.79 / 12.04) all started their spring campaigns with solid efforts.

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He won well and should go to ozxie and test and be tested so they know how good he is amongst the best on offer - Jury out for me but I think he is good enough to be given the chance - if he was mine I would travel

 

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What would be the logic behind that comment Shad ? 

Are we not allowed to debate the merits of his performance for some reason ?

Clearly the horse has some issues, respiratory we're told, and the connections seem to enjoy gloating when he performs, but doesn't it follow that we're entitled to offer a substantiated opinion too regardless of whether he runs well or poorly ?

When he goes to Australia they'll be merciless, their media will dissect him and scrutinize him to the nth degree, and they'll probably arrive at the same conclusions we have, that being that he's a bit hot and cold, he's got a bit of an attitude, and you can't trust him.

Is that fair or am I being too harsh ( and brutally honest ) ?

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In any given year, visitors have to contend with the best on offer locally. Some years are stronger than others. If Kawi goes to Melb he's going to be up against some hot fields. Tavago, Tarzino, Winx, Highland Reel, the Godolphin/Waller/Hayes/Price/Snowden/Weir/ machines plus many others. When that top horse Jimmy Chou went over, he got run over by Pinker Pinker in the Cox. I was there on the day, backed JC and thought I was home but unfortunately he was left in front too soon. Kawi will have to be a few lengths better than some on here think - just to be competitive. Maybe he will be. But there's only one way to find out and another kiwi , Xtravagant, found how tough it is. Itv will be interesting.

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I'm not wanting to get into an argument or anything, and I don't follow all racing as close as I used to, but is he really" hot and cold"?

Without wanting to go back over old videos I seem to recall that when he has been beaten it has largely been because the race hasn't been run to suit him.

I agree totally that horses like Bonecrusher, Sunline or Canterbury Belle didn't need races run to suit them, they made their luck.

Probably his next step is to make his own luck in a race, or adapt to what unfolds around him.

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Fair call, i guess im just all kawi out with the earlier post of about 3 pages, and agree it will be tough in aussie, but he has to get there first, but racing is a funny old game and anything can happen.

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Can only beat whats in front of him, and did that fairly easily. For mine I don't understand the Winx argurment. She is clearly one right out of the top drawer. Don't think anyone's comparing Kawi to her. Don't think anything in Australasia for that matter is being compared to her. Will be alot more dodging her in the cox plate than just this bloke. Good horse, Good trainer. Surely that should be celebrated over those with liking for tall poppys........ 

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2 minutes ago, MiDeBo Racing said:

Can only beat whats in front of him, and did that fairly easily. For mine I don't understand the Winx argurment. She is clearly one right out of the top drawer. Don't think anyone's comparing Kawi to her. Don't think anything in Australasia for that matter is being compared to her. Will be alot more dodging her in the cox plate than just this bloke. Good horse, Good trainer. Surely that should be celebrated over those with liking for tall poppys........ 

How is anyone trying to knock anyone... nothing like Tall Poppy, Midget has an opinion to which the last time I checked he was allowed, others have differing opinions to which the last time I checked they were also allowed, its called a debate... I think Allan took it a bit personally myself, but hey thats just my opinion. Allan is a bloody good trainer, the horse is one the best if the best going around in NZ at present ... and is open to discussion, which is great.

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6 minutes ago, scooby3051 said:

How is anyone trying to knock anyone... nothing like Tall Poppy, Midget has an opinion to which the last time I checked he was allowed, others have differing opinions to which the last time I checked they were also allowed, its called a debate... I think Allan took it a bit personally myself, but hey thats just my opinion. Allan is a bloody good trainer, the horse is one the best if the best going around in NZ at present ... and is open to discussion, which is great.

100% agree on everyone having differing opinions and having the ability to put them forward, hence why I put mine forward 

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As I,ve said earlier on another thread...I opted for Addictive Habit over Kawi in a H/H stakes bet with mates

granted...Addictive Habit out at mo but Unfortunately I,m well behind the 8 ball at this stage $ wise in stakes

Kawi has brushed em aside locally,

What is your choice over the Spring Carnival or in Oz to knock him over , Scoobs,Midget & co?  ,

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Probably the best horse in nz and if he was mine,not knowing the problems he might have had,he would have been in Aus before now.He has a big heart and a top trainer and should be given his chance.Midgets first post has to be a wind up.Kawi covered more ground than anything else on Saturday and still was dominant up the straight.Times mean stuff all as tracks differ in every case,as do the way races are run so unless the track is fast and races are run at a good rate times are not going to mean much

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