tab pay outs

[final luca 189]

yesterday I took a poker 4 place bet at Ellerslie;

r4=#5 nacho lass  1st $4.40

r5 #11 bayrum 1st $2.40

r6=#2 jack Romanov 2nd $2.30

r7=#8  gardone last $nil

now I calculated  my return to be $25.00.

I went in to falls this morning and used machine,

I also had another poker bet  and got $2.00 return and had  a $1.e/w on henry tudor =$2.00

my collect should have been total $29.00

via machine return=$18.90,

I deposited $5.00  cash  so I could put a few bets on for today ($23.90) ..

now what I want to know.. have I done the calculation right  and the TAB screwed  the poor little punter again

or am I wrong?

if i'm right and  TAB has diddled me of $10.10 how do I get it back...

after all I knew the odds  but how can any one beat being screwed even a small amount like this...

anyone got advice?

  

 

[lecithin 429]

Your calculations seem right assuming it was a $0.50 poker bet?  I'd highly doubt there was an error with the machine but I guess it's possible.  If you want to be sure, ring the help desk and as long as you know the approximate time you used the machine they should be able to trace the transactions and confirm the payout.

[jasonmccook1 2,359]

2 hours ago, final luca said:

yesterday I took a poker 4 place bet at Ellerslie;

r4=#5 nacho lass  1st $4.40

r5 #11 bayrum 1st $2.40

r6=#2 jack Romanov 2nd $2.30

r7=#8  gardone last $nil

now I calculated  my return to be $25.00.

I went in to falls this morning and used machine,

I also had another poker bet  and got $2.00 return and had  a $1.e/w on henry tudor =$2.00

my collect should have been total $29.00

via machine return=$18.90,

I deposited $5.00  cash  so I could put a few bets on for today ($23.90) ..

now what I want to know.. have I done the calculation right  and the TAB screwed  the poor little punter again

or am I wrong?

if i'm right and  TAB has diddled me of $10.10 how do I get it back...

after all I knew the odds  but how can any one beat being screwed even a small amount like this...

anyone got advice?

  

 

Yup my poker calculator says $25.15 so don't know what happened there. That's for 50c

[final luca 189]

yes it was $0.50 unit but only paid out total bets for $18.90.. not $29.00  that had been won.. I will ring them.. thanks.

 

[lecithin 429]

Just seen the results and there was an enquiry after the first leg which could well be the reason.  I'm guessing the result for the first leg wasn't confirmed before the second leg (or even if it was there was a glitch that prevented reinvestment) so you just got money back for Bayrun (and would have even if it lost) so you collects were 4.4x1, 4.4x2.3, 2.4x2.3, 4.4x1x2.3 which comes to $30.16 or around $15 for a $0.50 unit.

Just one of the reasons why all-ups are a bad idea from a punting perspective.  However, I reckon the TAB will give you the extra $10 if you ring in and complain....

[pogo(aus) 876]

all ups are THE best idea from a punting perspective....

 

[MS26 70]

I remember seeing the race with the enquiry into Ngatira Gold still in provisional results stage when the next race had closed.

[lecithin 429]

21 minutes ago, pogo(aus) said:

all ups are THE best idea from a punting perspective....

 

Sure are ..... if you're the bookie

[final luca 189]

It was my understanding they unannounced change  of placings before they jumped. but even so

I would not have even received $18.90 if that was the case.,feel the punter has been screwed yet again and  question needs to be answered by the TAB.

 

[N1MUE 1,877]

Yep they did announce change of placings before the next race but for some reason the dividend took quite some time to come through - I was waiting to collect on a place bet on Just Got Home and it didn't result until after the next race had run.

I know it's frustrating and slack on their part, but I don't think they've screwed anyone - I think their rules probably state that if a race has not been resulted before the next bet in an all-up then that next bet is treated as a $1 payout.  People with horses in all-ups who finished out of the money in Bayrum's race would be happy.  

[lecithin 429]

35 minutes ago, final luca said:

 

I would not have even received $18.90 if that was the case

 

Not sure why you think that - by my calculations (above) you should have received around $15 for the poker bet plus $4 for your other two bets which is basically what you got?

[lecithin 429]

29 minutes ago, N1MUE said:

I know it's frustrating and slack on their part, but I don't think they've screwed anyone - I think their rules probably state that if a race has not been resulted before the next bet in an all-up then that next bet is treated as a $1 payout.  People with horses in all-ups who finished out of the money in Bayrum's race would be happy.  

I wonder how many cash punters that appeared to have "losing" tickets, but due to the issue would have been due for a collect, actually cashed in their ticket rather than just throwing it in the bin assuming it had lost - not many I suspect?

[final luca 189]

even if I received $1.00 from that race, it would only make my return for my poker bet $7.70 +  2x$2.00=$11,70, still a fair way from the $18.90 I received.

anyway, TAB help desk people have been in contact with me. they are going to look into it, and will be looking at transactions from the machine in falls hotel .

hopefully we can get to bottom of this... the person from help desk, was in full agreement with me on what the payout should have been..

I feel screwed, sorry I won't change my view on that..it is hard enough to win at this game without TAB putting the odds fully in their favour.

so much so.. I will consider giving up betting with the nz tab .. if the enquiry is not up held in my favour.(yep i'm a bad sport.)

I look at it like this.. if 100 punters had the same tickets return as I did that would be $1,000+  the tab has illegally gained  by unfairly not declaring the dividend valid

even though the race change had been declared, and race confirmed prior to next race jumping. 

for me, it tells me how well the nz TAB looks after not only the small punter but all punters in nz.

I would though like to thank the help desk lady for her quick response.. at least some one is on the ball ...

not very often we see that from the TAB.

I was looking forward to the next big jump day in 2 weeks... who knows I may settle down a bit and still have a bet... but  these dark moments are truly no incentive to

a  bloke like me. if my return had been 10 times what it was and  I was diddled, I would still be bitched off...  but  in gambling we do some what that the knocks and roll with the punches  and just except  what's happened.

I have been taking poker bets since the introduction of that form of betting, never have I had this ever done before... and  I don't expect it ever to happen again... (with fingers crossed)

will   post the out come.

 

[final luca 189]

Lecithin    no not $15 as it was a $0.50  poker 4 , total $5.50 spent on it...

return would have been $7.70

think my maths is passable aided by calculator

my memory how  ever may be slipping a bit... comes with age..

 

[lecithin 429]

I still think my calculations are right.  I thought a $0.50 poker 4 was made up of 11 x $0.50 bets (6 x 2 leg all-ups, 4 x 3-leg all-ups, and 1 x 4 leg-all-up) so $5.50 in total.

So your winning bets in the poker bet were:

Nacho Lass - Bayrum = $0.50 x $4.4 x $1.0 = $2.2

Nacho Lass - Jack Romanov = $0.50 x $4.4 x $2.3 =$5.0

Bayrum - Jack Romanov = $0.50 x $2.4 x $2.3 = $2.7 (you get the Bayrum dividend here as it's the first leg of the bet so the previous race not being resulted is irrelevant)

All three = $0.50 x $4.4 x $1 x $2.3 = $5.0

Total poker collect = $14.90

 

[final luca 189]

no  lecithin.   your got it wrong... nacho lass  would be the $1.00 onto bayrum  eg

.50x1.00x 2.40=1.20

.50x1.00x2.30=1.10

.50x2.40x2.30=2.70

.50x1.00x2.40x2.30=2.70

total =$7.70

reason why.. nancho lass 's race was the one under enquiry. There lies the problem weather  the result was cleared and dividends for

poker bet  past onto  other race. other wise they treat it as /like a late scratching..$1.00 but figures don't stack either way... think tab tried ringing me but missed call, will have to wait for them o get back, then may be wiser.

 

[lecithin 429]

OK if you think so, report back what the TAB tell you as I can't see any other explanation other than what I have suggested?!

[final luca 189]

THE OUT COME: change of placings were declared, and the starter given the OK to start.

before race control were given the placings change.

dividends  from race 4 were not carried over because of this.

TAB, will be depositing  monies   into my account..

and I even got an apology.

thank you very much for your help tab in resolving my query.

the little punter  chalks one up.

 

 

[lecithin 429]

Geez so I told you that and got told I was wrong, and the tab tell you the exact same thing and get praised for being so helpful....

Good they sorted you out though with the difference!!

[N1MUE 1,877]

3 hours ago, final luca said:

no  lecithin.   your got it wrong... nacho lass  would be the $1.00 onto bayrum  eg

No Lecithin got it exactly right.

The Nancho Lass dividend is $4.40 in all three combinations that included her.  Its the Bayrum dividend that gets adjusted to $1 for any of the combinations that included the unresulted Nancho Lass bet.

[final luca 189]

still can not see it.. if the didvi for  nancho lass was not declared then it wasn't posted and all up bets and poker bet dividends did not accumulate onto the next race. that is how the tab explained it to me. in an email. anyway they refunded /paid the difference .if that was good customer  practice or admitting  they were wrong, either way I take it as a win for me. cheers guys.

 

 

 

[Turny 1,224]

Luca, go Betfair give these clowns a wide berth - they are muppets

[N1MUE 1,877]

14 minutes ago, final luca said:

still can not see it.. if the didvi for  nancho lass was not declared then it wasn't posted and all up bets and poker bet dividends did not accumulate onto the next race. that is how the tab explained it to me. in an email. anyway they refunded /paid the difference .if that was good customer  practice or admitting  they were wrong, either way I take it as a win for me. cheers guys.

By way of example, take the combination that had Nancho Lass, Bayrum and Jack R.

Nancho Lass, the first horse in this combination, came in and paid $4.40 - they can't take that off you.   However this result wasn't finalised in time to go all-up on to Bayrum so the Bayrum race is treated as a scratch ($1 dividend).   The NL result was finalised in time for the Jack R race, so the $4.40 from NL goes on to Jack R.

Perhaps an even better example is the two horse combination: Nancho Lass on to Jack R.   Nancho Lass came in and paid $4.40.  This was resulted well before Jack R's race so your $4.40 goes on to Jack R.   What makes you think they would treat NL like a $1 dividend in this example?

I think you may have misinterpreted the TAB explanation.

[final luca 189]

could well have..beats the snot out of me... had it explained  a dozen times  .. I guess i'm just to thick for this..

never mind.. think I understand now.. i'll put all this down to experience... Sorry for the drama ... normally when I get a horse in an enquiry its mine that gets tossed out.. this is a first for me.