RaceCafe..#1...Tipsters Thread.... Share Your Fancies For Fun...Lets See Who The Best Tipsters Here Are.
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Kawi

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On 8/18/2016 at 6:15 PM, WhoKnows said:

Sharrock has always come across as a bit of a loudmouth who rates every horse he has, Kawi is no doubt a very good horse and has said for a while now he is going to cross the Tasman and take on the Aussies, it's yet to happen and I doubt it ever will, some talk the talk, others walk the walk.

Bit tough on A Sharrock aren't you?  The horse has certainly proved he is bloody good and after all it is human nature to think your horse is pretty good yet we so often get let down in the racing game.  He did however rave up The Bold One who let him down as well but I imagine had he been gelded he might have refocused and lived up to the hype(which obviously was out of the question for his connections)

For all those who have had the experience  of a disappointment with a nag - 

 

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Good on him about talking up his team, and lets face it there is alot of horses with huge ability that are not seen at there best on race day or sum don't even make the races, results speak for themselves, good to see he is passionate about the game and the way the industry is heading we certainly need all the trainers we can get. Its a tough game and only fittest survive, so don't you doubters be to hard on him.

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Sounds like Kawi is back on track and good to go for Saturday which is great news, money has also come for him in Fixed Odds and has shortened.

Now hopefully the weather forecast plays its part!

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IMO this thread isn't about AS, it's about the horse running hot and cold, and the media hype that surrounds him.

He's clearly hard to ride and he's probably a bit of a thinker, that's a nice way of saying he's a prick, but hopefully he's going to finally deliver what he's always promised, without excuses and in a genuine fashion. Then he can go to Aussie and do the same.

That's all his critics want isn't it, a bit more Tarzan and a lot less Jane.

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1 hour ago, Midget said:

IMO this thread isn't about AS, it's about the horse running hot and cold, and the media hype that surrounds him.

He's clearly hard to ride and he's probably a bit of a thinker, that's a nice way of saying he's a prick, but hopefully he's going to finally deliver what he's always promised, without excuses and in a genuine fashion. Then he can go to Aussie and do the same.

That's all his critics want isn't it, a bit more Tarzan and a lot less Jane.

I agree Midget. Just my opinion as well - but perhaps some are being a bit harsh on this horses last seasons performance, looking at the record:

Foxbridge - pipe opener, Makfi - nice win, then HB fiasco, then slight knock as reported so 2 weeks in paddock, open 1400 - win, Tauranga - beaten neck but over confident ride (bloody shocker imo), Capt Cook - on first look disappointing but 1.38.7 (SPM 1.36.6/R75 1.36.7 same day) - sit and sprint, wins Manawatu Challenge, Zabeel and Thorndon, then races on "that track" at Te Rapa (didn't let down on shifty track?) and then Haunui (tired). Puts $498k in bin 3 G1's off 6 attempts. Not too shabby.

I accept your point though - some horses are thinkers, some carry little niggles or breathing problems etc - but unfortunately none of them can talk. If only!

I wish connections all the best.

 

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Sharrock certainly doesn't help himself with his and Kawis image, Waits to a couple of days before Kawi races to declare to public that Kawi has had a wind operation.

Apparantly now he's  an 'even better horse', interesting call to wait so long to let it known to punters 

 

 

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22 minutes ago, BruceL said:

Sharrock certainly doesn't help himself with his and Kawis image, Waits to a couple of days before Kawi races to declare to public that Kawi has had a wind operation.

Apparantly now he's  an 'even better horse', interesting call to wait so long to let it known to punters 

 

 

I have never seen one that is better after one... they can get back to better form but very few if any get better after one.

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24 minutes ago, BruceL said:

Sharrock certainly doesn't help himself with his and Kawis image, Waits to a couple of days before Kawi races to declare to public that Kawi has had a wind operation.

Apparantly now he's  an 'even better horse', interesting call to wait so long to let it known to punters 

 

 

As long as the owners were aware that's all that matters - no rule says that bone chips, wind op, mental illness etc have to be declared. Most horses carry some niggles at some stage of their career, some are detected some aren't. Owners pay the bills - not punters! 

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5 hours ago, hesi said:

“At the moment, we don’t have to be advised until up to an hour before a race,”

And some wonder why racing in New Zealand is going backwards.  I will let the $5.50 for Kawi on Ubet pass for now.

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7 hours ago, toolittletoolate said:

As long as the owners were aware that's all that matters - no rule says that bone chips, wind op, mental illness etc have to be declared. Most horses carry some niggles at some stage of their career, some are detected some aren't. Owners pay the bills - not punters! 

What a load of shyte.... it should be open information for everyone... the days of keeping things secret are long gone...if racing can't be totally transparent how do we expect to survive...that is one of the problems as i see it..racing needs to move into the 21st century....sure the punter may not own the horse but he has so many avenues these days to spend his punting dollar, so I am sure he would have a bad taste in his mouth if he new his horse was operated on before he put his hard earned on and he was not given the opportunity to decide to still bet or not take the risk. Racing is losing enough people nowadays and your blinkered mentality will only chase more away.

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Guest 2Admin2

But isn't all this reflective of the root cause of racing's demise.  Diminishing returns to trainers and owners and increasing operational costs.

With regard to notifying that ever diminishing group "the punters" where do you start and stop?  What systems are required to monitor and police it? = cost.  We don't have a closed system (e.g. Hong Kong) in New Zealand where it is easy to monitor and report on everything down to the horse's daily weight and track work.  

Why should Sharrock be required to tell the seething masses about everything he does with Kawi when the majority are prone to bag the horse's every move?  The fact is the horse has had a wind operation - was he required to tell us all that the horse had had a wind problem?  As have many of the critics (most of who haven't trained a horse in their life) have commented, his raceday performances have been hot and cold.  Does the risk attributed to betting on Kawi change because we now know: A.  The horse has had a wind problem and/or B. An operation has been undertaken to fix it?

We have some rather nefarious machinations going on at the moment behind the scenes between NZTR and Clubs regarding their "intellectual property (IP)" - more to come on that later - what about the Owners IP?  Afterall they are the one's paying disproportionately to subsidise the provision of the product that the "punter" punts on.  Is the health and detailed information about the day to day treatment or training of Kawi the IP of the Owner?  Afterall he has paid for it and in the majority of cases with stuff all return.

I doubt anyone would give a toss about what needed to be reported or when if it didn't add more cost but with at least a corresponding increased in revenue to those that pay.

What's the bet the RIU ask for more funding to hire some "analysts" to monitor each and every one of the 3000 horses that race in NZ each year!

 

 

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3 hours ago, 2Admin2 said:

 

We have some rather nefarious machinations going on at the moment behind the scenes between NZTR and Clubs regarding their "intellectual property (IP)" - more to come on that later - what about the Owners IP?  Afterall they are the one's paying disproportionately to subsidise the provision of the product that the "punter" punts on.  Is the health and detailed information about the day to day treatment or training of Kawi the IP of the Owner?  Afterall he has paid for it and in the majority of cases with stuff all return.

 

 

 

They(NZTR) have rolled over on the IP from what I can see.  Lamely agreed to NZRB remaining in control

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5 minutes ago, TOM(the other Molloy) said:

They(NZTR) have rolled over on the IP from what I can see.  Lamely agreed to NZRB remaining in control

I've heard otherwise and that NZTR and NZRB are on different tacks.  Even a few major clubs are on a different path. 

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37 minutes ago, 2Admin2 said:

I've heard otherwise and that NZTR and NZRB are on different tacks.  Even a few major clubs are on a different path. 

Two months ago it was all secrecy and(throughbred) industry co-operation, clubs signing up for group action.  The recent advice is that NZTR has agreed to retain the status quo with NZRB.

NZRB has offered the mirror response - they will look into it

I cannot speak for the major Clubs of course bu that is the impression I have got

 

 

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4 hours ago, 2Admin2 said:

But isn't all this reflective of the root cause of racing's demise.  Diminishing returns to trainers and owners and increasing operational costs.

With regard to notifying that ever diminishing group "the punters" where do you start and stop?  What systems are required to monitor and police it? = cost.  We don't have a closed system (e.g. Hong Kong) in New Zealand where it is easy to monitor and report on everything down to the horse's daily weight and track work.  

Why should Sharrock be required to tell the seething masses about everything he does with Kawi when they majority are prone to bag the horse's every move?  The fact is the horse has had a wind operation - was he required to tell us all that the horse had had a wind problem?  As have many of the critics (most of who haven't trained a horse in their life) have commented on his raceday performances have been hot and cold.  Does the risk attributed to betting on Kawi change because we now know: A.  The horse has had a wind problem and/or B. An operation has been undertaken to fix it?

We have some rather nefarious machinations going on at the moment behind the scenes between NZTR and Clubs regarding their "intellectual property (IP)" - more to come on that later - what about the Owners IP?  Afterall they are the one's paying disproportionately to subsidise the provision of the product that the "punter" punts on.  Is the health and detailed information about the day to day treatment or training of Kawi the IP of the Owner?  Afterall he has paid for it and in the majority of cases with stuff all return.

I doubt anyone would give a toss about what needed to be reported or when if it didn't add more cost and revenue to those that pay increased.

What's the bet the RIU ask for more funding to hire some "analysts" to monitor each and every one of the 3000 horses that race in NZ each year!

 

 

Exactly - but this is not just about one horse and one trainer, it is about every horse and every trainer. Winx had a bone chip removed, Kawi had a wind op, a new born has corrective leg surgery - so what! I stand to be corrected but a majority of operations are undertaken prior to a horse even starting in a race. So where do you start and where does it stop!! A shyte load more cost and a comprehensive database for welfare groups to get their hands on is where i'm guessing. And that leads to....

Just be careful what you wish for.

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All significant surgery to a horse should have to be reported and placed in the public domain - wind ops (minor or major) are clearly liklely to have ab earing on a horses' subsequent career - whether good or bad - and the punters in particular should  have away of establishing all relevant information...just as we are told about gear changes/jockey declarations etc. It astounds me that Kawis' wind op was not made public at the time.

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Crickey have to report when he farts next, pay your money and take your chances, thats why its called gambling, get sick of hearing riding tactics when a change of pattern is announced, most the time it never works out anyway, think we need to wish him the best and move on, as with the rest of the runners.

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