von Smallhaussen 3,226 Report post Posted July 27, 2016 2 weeks ago Second Innings runs 2nd in the Parliamentary Hcp and Pump up the volume 6th of 7 in the same race. This week in the Taumaranui gold cup Pump up the volume meets Second Innings 2 1/2 kg worse off ! biff 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shad 1,539 Report post Posted July 27, 2016 Many things in the handicapping don't make sense, i gave up trying to work it out. Los Lobos 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
biff 2,158 Report post Posted July 27, 2016 36 minutes ago, von Smallhaussen said: 2 weeks ago Second Innings runs 2nd in the Parliamentary Hcp and Pump up the volume 6th of 7 in the same race. This week in the Taumaranui gold cup Pump up the volume meets Second Innings 2 1/2 kg worse off ! And they say you can't get high on second hand smoke? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryb 2,062 Report post Posted July 27, 2016 Its fairly easy to work out, located here. http://www.nzracing.co.nz/OnHorseFiles/Downloads/nztr handicapping policy 2014 web.pdf Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggy 4,007 Report post Posted July 27, 2016 Is that from here Barry? How long has it been out of date? NZTR Handicapping Policy (Currently out of date) Download Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryb 2,062 Report post Posted July 27, 2016 The last 12 months Leggy, I don't think its been superseded. A quick read of it and VS little issue above is easily worked out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Smallhaussen 3,226 Report post Posted July 27, 2016 thanks for the link Barry - I understand how the weights have been allocated under this system. In my opinion this is the reason we have so few open class horses racing in NZ as it does not seem fair under a 'handicap' situation under the true meaning of handicap - where all participants should be given the chance to finish together in a race. in this case the rating points differential between Second Innings and P u t v has closed by 7 points yet the weight differential has spread by 2 1/2kg. biff 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotch Thistle 133 Report post Posted July 28, 2016 Part of the explanation for the weight differential spreading is that the minimum in the Parliamentary was 54, whereas in the Taumaranui Cup it is 53. Second Innings was on the minimum at Trentham, and still is at Rotorua. The major part of the explanation is that at Trentham Pump Up The Volume carried 58.5, as Belle Sorriso was topweight with 60 through her higher rating. At Rotorua there is nothing rated higher than Pump Up The Volume (after adjusting for the mares' allowance) so PUTV gets 60. For mine it is absurd that there is so much elasticity depending on whether a field has acceptors who have ratings at the top of a band. But it happens all the time. In Rotorua race 10 Rocky with a rating of 70 has 60kg in a R75 race, as the highest ranking male accepted for, whereas he would have 57.5kg if a male with rating 75 male had been entered. Invites manipulation of the type Te Akau got up to a few years back when It kept entering and scratching a high-rated topweight so stablemate Burgundy would get a light weight. MiDeBo Racing and Southland 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
.... 226 Report post Posted July 28, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, Scotch Thistle said: Part of the explanation for the weight differential spreading is that the minimum in the Parliamentary was 54, whereas in the Taumaranui Cup it is 53. Second Innings was on the minimum at Trentham, and still is at Rotorua. The major part of the explanation is that at Trentham Pump Up The Volume carried 58.5, as Belle Sorriso was topweight with 60 through her higher rating. At Rotorua there is nothing rated higher than Pump Up The Volume (after adjusting for the mares' allowance) so PUTV gets 60. For mine it is absurd that there is so much elasticity depending on whether a field has acceptors who have ratings at the top of a band. But it happens all the time. In Rotorua race 10 Rocky with a rating of 70 has 60kg in a R75 race, as the highest ranking male accepted for, whereas he would have 57.5kg if a male with rating 75 male had been entered. Invites manipulation of the type Te Akau got up to a few years back when It kept entering and scratching a high-rated topweight so stablemate Burgundy would get a light weight. That's right, Te Akau trialled Better Than Ever on a Tuesday but also accepted him on a Friday (3 days later) for the Levin Stakes which Burgundy was also an acceptor. Better Than Ever accepted with 62.5kg (Rating 110) and Burgundy 54.5kg (Rating 92) (1.5kg above the minimum), Better Than Ever scratches (understandably) and Burgundy ends up being a 54.5kg topweight when he would have been a clear topweight (around 59kg) without Better Than Ever in the field. Clear manipulation especially as he trialled 3 days before 'apparently' going to run in that race, shows the way that the system can be manipulated Edited July 28, 2016 by BruceL Slight adjustment Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...