Grant R 348 Report post Posted July 14, 2016 Breeding season is rapidly closing in and breeders will be making decisions on where to send the broodmares My question is who do you think is value for money as a stallion you can look at it two ways 1) As a breeder for re-sale 2) As a breeder who is going to race the horse I will start with my opinion and i'm biased as i have shares in three from the boy and that is Darci brahma at 15k stud fee just a fantastic provider of consistent horses maybe not 2YO but as they get older they start showing something and as the great man says "Patience is the cheapest thing in racing and the least used" BART CUMMINGS Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catalano 951 Report post Posted July 14, 2016 Surely Nadeem would have to best value on a runners:winners, runners:SW basis? MiDeBo Racing, biff and Aaron Bidlake 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattski 176 Report post Posted July 14, 2016 I agree Darci B is great value as a consistent source of very good horses. Power seems pretty good value at $8k considering how they have kicked off in Europe. Of the new horses Complacent seems pretty fair value at $5k. I still think Mastercraftsman is underrated (although unfort no longer shuttling here obviously). Rip VW also fair value. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_gee 416 Report post Posted July 14, 2016 threes allays 3 things i look at where do i want resulting foal be located ie who i want buy it what sort of horse i want from sire and three what we look at as value value aint darci he was over priced and under achived and left nothing 5 that are good value for mine are per incanto(though unsure what they be like as older horses iffraaj produces top level horses all over the world showcasing the same and swiss ace is making name all over another that i think is a toplinner in making is shocking have two and love them and every train er and owner i know raves bout them one the things darci hasnt done with great effect is produce to many outside nz hence y alot are called bread n butter stallions hes not liked in aus n you really see his progeny in asia Insert other media Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grant R 348 Report post Posted July 14, 2016 28 minutes ago, mr_gee said: threes allays 3 things i look at where do i want resulting foal be located ie who i want buy it what sort of horse i want from sire and three what we look at as value value aint darci he was over priced and under achived and left nothing 5 that are good value for mine are per incanto(though unsure what they be like as older horses iffraaj produces top level horses all over the world showcasing the same and swiss ace is making name all over another that i think is a toplinner in making is shocking have two and love them and every train er and owner i know raves bout them one the things darci hasnt done with great effect is produce to many outside nz hence y alot are called bread n butter stallions hes not liked in aus n you really see his progeny in asia Insert other media Well ill throw a few figures at you regarding Darci Brahma 383 progeny to race 267 winners (69%) earnings over 26 million 28 stakes winners 27 stakes placegetters Champion sire Singapore 2012, 2013 , 2015 Second on NZ sire list 2013-14, 2014-15 and is the same this season Horses Julinsky Prince $580 k , Nashville 795k NZ 500 K AU , Recite 230 k NZ , 160 K AU , Gust of Wind 970 k AU , Rasa Lila 230 K , Darci Be Good 640k AU , Super Easy 2.1 mill S , Risque Mission 330 K AU Not super top echelon but pretty dam good Breeder 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
biff 2,158 Report post Posted July 14, 2016 1 hour ago, Catalano said: Surely Nadeem would have to best value on a runners:winners, runners:SW basis? For sure, however don't understand why he only got to 4.5k on online auction earlier in the week….he is the perfect horse for both breed to race and the semi commercial breeder - he is PROVEN…whether is the travel costs involved to get mares down to the Wairarapa? Same with Per Incanto - only got to 11K and was passed in... Grant R 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_gee 416 Report post Posted July 14, 2016 6 minutes ago, biff said: For sure, however don't understand why he only got to 4.5k on online auction earlier in the week….he is the perfect horse for both breed to race and the semi commercial breeder - he is PROVEN…whether is the travel costs involved to get mares down to the Wairarapa? Same with Per Incanto - only got to 11K and was passed in... one thing i notice with nadeems is a lot of them are not allways there in the head Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_gee 416 Report post Posted July 14, 2016 38 minutes ago, Grant R said: Well ill throw a few figures at you regarding Darci Brahma 383 progeny to race 267 winners (69%) earnings over 26 million 28 stakes winners 27 stakes placegetters Champion sire Singapore 2012, 2013 , 2015 Second on NZ sire list 2013-14, 2014-15 and is the same this season Horses Julinsky Prince $580 k , Nashville 795k NZ 500 K AU , Recite 230 k NZ , 160 K AU , Gust of Wind 970 k AU , Rasa Lila 230 K , Darci Be Good 640k AU , Super Easy 2.1 mill S , Risque Mission 330 K AU Not super top echelon but pretty dam good thats all well and good but that was when was well supported gone 15k tells me hes not well supported tells me his owners ain't supporting him yes he has stats but y price decrease all of a sudden Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grant R 348 Report post Posted July 14, 2016 34 minutes ago, mr_gee said: thats all well and good but that was when was well supported gone 15k tells me hes not well supported tells me his owners ain't supporting him yes he has stats but y price decrease all of a sudden I think alot comes down to two and three year old sires like you Per incanto you mentioned they are the hot property at the moment it just goes in cycles i believe . Personally i like a sire that im prepared to wait for the offspring to mature and like horses that can go over ground Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RACED AWAY 33 Report post Posted July 15, 2016 6 hours ago, mr_gee said: threes allays 3 things i look at where do i want resulting foal be located ie who i want buy it what sort of horse i want from sire and three what we look at as value value aint darci he was over priced and under achived and left nothing 5 that are good value for mine are per incanto(though unsure what they be like as older horses iffraaj produces top level horses all over the world showcasing the same and swiss ace is making name all over another that i think is a toplinner in making is shocking have two and love them and every train er and owner i know raves bout them one the things darci hasnt done with great effect is produce to many outside nz hence y alot are called bread n butter stallions hes not liked in aus n you really see his progeny in asia Insert other media At the same point in their stallion careers Darci Brahma has $4 Million more overall earnings then savabeel did at the same age!!! Savabeel had had 5 individual group 1 winners and Darci has had 7, 8 if you include Super Easy. Darci's winners to runners ratio is better. I'm not knocking Savabeel as he is a great stallion but Darci Brahma is hugely underrated but that's a comparison to show how well Darci has done! I believe he has been valued at 15K to meet the market in a time where the foal crop is dropping so it gives him every change of having a full book! gubellini, MiDeBo Racing, Huey and 1 other 4 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey 214 Report post Posted July 16, 2016 But I guess one question is...where is his big Australian horse? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grant R 348 Report post Posted July 16, 2016 39 minutes ago, Dopey said: But I guess one question is...where is his big Australian horse? Well Sargent really rates Gust of Wind first mare home in Melbourne Cup I think for 5th Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdytdy 5,341 Report post Posted July 16, 2016 As I stated on the Breeding Forum back on June 7. "I have seen a few of his progeny, like what I have seen and think he will leave some good winners. 2016 fee $8000 + gst represents an excellent opportunity for breeders I believe." Turny 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berri 2,131 Report post Posted July 16, 2016 Unfortunately we have a lot of very mediocre stallions. Although the Darci Brahma's of this world have good stats in NZ, they can't compete in the hot pot. They're not good enough. As soon as the potential is capped, the value isn't there. The other problems with that stallion is the bullshit brigade were hard at work labelling him as a breed shaper when quite obviously he wasn't. We need more of the right stallions coming to NZ to give ourselves more chances. Interesting to see the performances of Mayson's progeny up north Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shad 1,554 Report post Posted July 16, 2016 Raise the flag reckon will be late developers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insider 3,947 Report post Posted July 16, 2016 5 hours ago, Shad said: Raise the flag reckon will be late developers. They are but it's too late. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gubellini 3,995 Report post Posted July 16, 2016 Berri can you see any of next season's first year stallions being "breed shapers"?. If not can you tell us which ones you think might be successful?. Thanks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdytdy 5,341 Report post Posted July 16, 2016 17 hours ago, rdytdy said: As I stated on the Breeding Forum back on June 7. "I have seen a few of his progeny, like what I have seen and think he will leave some good winners. 2016 fee $8000 + gst represents an excellent opportunity for breeders I believe." Sorry, that was in relation to Power. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pogo(aus) 876 Report post Posted July 17, 2016 On 15/07/2016 at 9:07 AM, mr_gee said: one thing i notice with nadeems is a lot of them are not allways there in the head funniest post ever Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gubellini 3,995 Report post Posted July 17, 2016 pogo some Race Cafe posters share the same characteristic as Nadeem. Give me a Darci Brahma any day. Most have great temperaments and are very tractable and genuine. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ngatimaru 51 Report post Posted July 17, 2016 While Talking about Darci, What are the Caffers thoughts on the chances off the Super Easy progeny ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gubellini 3,995 Report post Posted July 17, 2016 ngatimaru I saw some of his first crop at Karaka earlier this year. Very good temperaments. Some of the colts were very big and well developed but some of the fillies were on the small size. He will sire winners for sure. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruby 160 Report post Posted July 17, 2016 Pentire @ 10k proven! Huey and Shad 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gubellini 3,995 Report post Posted July 17, 2016 The Bold One $2,000 plus GST. Easily the cheapest son of Fastnet Rock either side of the Tasman. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grant R 348 Report post Posted July 17, 2016 One i am going to watch for sure is Mongolian Khan a great looking Stallion will be interesting Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
