Ohokaman

Donna tells it like it is....

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Very interesting to hear Donna Logan this morning talking about our stakes and returns to Trainers etc..

The stable had 5 winners, 4 seconds and 3 thirds on a Saturday meeting.....the % return.....$7312......:wacko:

Donna as part owner in a couple picked up another $5700 so total for the day a bit over $13,000.

And they wonder why people are getting out of the game, going overseas...

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22 minutes ago, scooby3051 said:

And this is one of the leading stables... what a joke.. If Waller had trained five on Saturday he would have learnt over 20K just in % alone. And how long before Donna wakes up and says I am going too...

But Ruakaka isn't Randwick.  Newcastle on Saturday probably a better comparison in my mind.  She'd still pocket 50% more if she trained them there and 50% and who wouldn't want 50% more?

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2 hours ago, Ohokaman said:

Very interesting to hear Donna Logan this morning talking about our stakes and returns to Trainers etc..

The stable had 5 winners, 4 seconds and 3 thirds on a Saturday meeting.....the % return.....$7312......:wacko:

Donna as part owner in a couple picked up another $5700 so total for the day a bit over $13,000.

And they wonder why people are getting out of the game, going overseas...

I would have thought that 13K was not a bad day's bonus return-remember this is ON TOP of training fees (not instead of). It is the hapless bloody owners of losing horses, the vast majority of which never line up in a race,that should be feeling aggrieved at the dreadful stakes. And Gubes, the 12k/week wage bill, plus feed,plus trainer salary etc, etc comes from those monthly invoices to owners! Stakes at lower end definitely need to be raised as well as abolition of Nom/Acceptance fees and even small starting consideration.

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1 hour ago, bloke said:

Stakes probably would  have been increased if we didn't have the idiot CEO's of The Racing Board in recent years.

Not much point looking back.  More important to focus on what the current one has done, what he's doing now and what he plans to do in the near future to get things right.

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I think its her right to talk about what she had made but aren't we forgetting something its the owners that support the trainers by  breeding or buying the horse and paying the trainer to train them .

It cost 27 -30 k to train a horse and get to the races per year and when your racing around for 7k in stakes money with the winning share of that $4350 its pitence really.

But you know what you have to be in to win I would say the Logan /Gibbs stable did pretty well considering . We hear this all the time from some trainers about going overseas and training but they are probably going into a harder market

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Paul O'Sullivan has just finished his latest Hong Kong season in 4th equal place in the trainers premiership. 50 wins from 384 starters who earned his owners HKD 49.5 mio or NZD 8.75 mio. 10% of that would be a nice earner along  with the other income he undoubtedly earns.

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41 minutes ago, chevy86 said:

I would have thought that 13K was not a bad day's bonus return-remember this is ON TOP of training fees (not instead of). It is the hapless bloody owners of losing horses, the vast majority of which never line up in a race,that should be feeling aggrieved at the dreadful stakes. And Gubes, the 12k/week wage bill, plus feed,plus trainer salary etc, etc comes from those monthly invoices to owners! Stakes at lower end definitely need to be raised as well as abolition of Nom/Acceptance fees and even small starting consideration.

No if all pay then i guess it is not bad... but remember this is one of the BEST in the country... i know for a fact if trainers were trying to survive on training fees alone they would starve don't think there is much profit in training fees.. I know for a fact there aint. Whether owners pay or not she still has to find 12K EVERY SINGLE week.

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18 minutes ago, scooby3051 said:

 if all pay

And therein Scooby lies a very real issue--too many dreamers/shysters/bullshit artists in the industry who take trainers, transporters/vets/agisters for a ride and then the good payers end up subsidising the bludgers. Must be especially tough on trainers who extend credit and then get nothing when these charlatans walk away from a horse that does't measure up. I've been there, agisting horses for others (tell you to keep the horse when they fail to pay and then you have to embrace that animal's welfare) and also running syndicates where you try to cover your bases by having members on AP but that is no bloody use when the AP is dishonoured due to lack of funds!

Also cannot help but be cognisant of the fact that too many trainers have too many shares in too many horses and expect other owners to prop up their indulgence.And they take the 10% of stakes BEFORE divvying up the residual.

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Just goes to show theirs no living to be made in training horses . Basically it's a dream of owning or training the once in a lifetime horse that keeps many of us going. In real terms I'd lose a six figure sum annually  chasing the dream. Shit I need my head read! 

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1 hour ago, kakama said:

Sad reading really. Realistically, when will it get better? Costs can only go up....

Its really a game  for the very rich, or those syndicates that have many involved. How can the majority of owners, that just have an average horse, on average wages, afford it?

It is bloody sad... I am sure Donna must be thinking about greener pastures... she is a top class trainer and would hold her own anywhere against anyone.

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How many in Petone would do 60 + hours a week and still have to find ways to supplement their income?  I know it's a choice but if we did not have passionate grassroots people that loved horse racing this industry would be long gone. The difference in income from the suits in Petone to those that put the show on is  mind boggling . Something has to change soon.

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9 hours ago, scooby3051 said:

It is bloody sad... I am sure Donna must be thinking about greener pastures... she is a top class trainer and would hold her own anywhere against anyone.

Scooby i'm not being personal here but Logan/Gibbs are not in the class of the Baker/Forsman, Pikes , Marsh , Autridge/ Richards although all the trainers get the powerful owners or studs behind them so does Logan /Gibbs and if you look at statistics a good percentage of there wins are at Ruakaka this season so far they have 34 winners 20 at Ruakaka . I think any trainer going to Austrailia would struggle especially metropoliton racing and you will find that the hit and run raids are only working for the top quality horses and thats just reality .

It comes down to the fact that they are not only trainers they have to be business men or woman as far as i'm concerned if there struggling paying wages maybe they need to look at there business model

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Steady Grant.

The Logan's have a wonderful record internationally and always have a top class G1 horse in their ranks.

They operate from a geographically 'challenged' location and they don't really have any big studs or owners behind them, and Donna hardly ever spends big money on a yearling.

I wouldn't wish to diminish the records of the other trainers you've mentioned as they're all great in their field, but you're out of order suggesting Donna doesn't belong up there with them.

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45 minutes ago, Midget said:

Steady Grant.

The Logan's have a wonderful record internationally and always have a top class G1 horse in their ranks.

They operate from a geographically 'challenged' location and they don't really have any big studs or owners behind them, and Donna hardly ever spends big money on a yearling.

I wouldn't wish to diminish the records of the other trainers you've mentioned as they're all great in their field, but you're out of order suggesting Donna doesn't belong up there with them.

Just my opinion Midget its not personal as i stated but i dont put them up there with the other groups as i said in my opinion

 

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23 minutes ago, Grant R said:

Just my opinion Midget its not personal as i stated but i dont put them up there with the other groups as i said in my opinion

 

You're allowed your opinion of course, it's a shame it's wrong though, and they don't deserve a knife in their backs on a public forum just because you haven't thought this through.

If you had bothered to think this through you might have asked the obvious;

WTF have Autridge and Richards done in Australia ? compared to Rising Romance, Volkstock'n'barrell et al.....

How good would the Logan's be if they were Cambridge based ? You attribute their success largely to local home track racing, doesn't the reciprocal apply to racing in the Waikato ?

If the Logan's spent hundreds of millions on yearlings would they have more great horses ?

If the Logan's had the support of all the major studs would they have more great horses ? 

Anyway I've said my bit, I'm not here to defend the Logan/Gibbs' barn but you on the other hand should give this some thought and maybe apologise or at least withdraw.

Best.

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One's of the "tests" for me of whether someone is a top trainer is........if they get a good horse can they win a big race with it? Not all trainers do.

Habibi - NZ Derby

Rising Romance - ATC Oaks

Volkstok'n'barrel - Rosehill Guineas

Valley Girl - Herbie Dyke etc.

Their record seems to speak for itself.

 

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I tend to measure them by the results they get versus the price they pay for yearlings.

Do you know what the above horses cost ? I don't, but I note they're by sires that were at the time relatively insignificant.

Some stables only seem to have runners by flash stallions, or yearlings that cost hundreds of thousands, and it's hard to imagine not winning races when half your team is by Fastnet Rock, but I note the Logan's on the other hand always seem to be making silk purses out of sow's ears.

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Guest 2Admin2

Habibi - full brother passed in at $9,500 Reserve $15,000
Rising Romance - did she go through the sales here?

Volkstok'n'barrell - $50,000

Valley Girl - Passed in $50,000 Reserve $75,000

I think I got those right! 

 

 

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49 minutes ago, Midget said:

You're allowed your opinion of course, it's a shame it's wrong though, and they don't deserve a knife in their backs on a public forum just because you haven't thought this through.

If you had bothered to think this through you might have asked the obvious;

WTF have Autridge and Richards done in Australia ? compared to Rising Romance, Volkstock'n'barrell et al.....

How good would the Logan's be if they were Cambridge based ? You attribute their success largely to local home track racing, doesn't the reciprocal apply to racing in the Waikato ?

If the Logan's spent hundreds of millions on yearlings would they have more great horses ?

If the Logan's had the support of all the major studs would they have more great horses ? 

Anyway I've said my bit, I'm not here to defend the Logan/Gibbs' barn but you on the other hand should give this some thought and maybe apologise or at least withdraw.

Best.

Thanks for that Midget respect your opinion and its not personal

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Donna didn't have float fees to worry about. $500+ per horse from Cambridge. It is ridiculous to have Saturday racing every 2nd Saturday at Ruakaka given the costs involved for Waikato stables. NZTR have made their usual stuff up with the so called trial track at Te Rapa which to my knowledge has yet to be used. Why on earth they didn't build an all weather track instead is beyond me. I guess cost savings for owners is beyond comprehension for NZTR.

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