Which sector is the most important in racing...

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Diver Dan said:

Fact is punters have to be the main focus!

Unless of course 3, 1 and 4 are happy to win ribbons - there is no choice in this.

Ideally all working together, unfortunately the "privileged" (not all) breeders have had too much say.

I also believe that the TAB has let most down by their lack of vision and investment in technology to keep abreast of the opposition.

Here's one step that would literally increase turnover by a staggering amount - EXIT button

This happened to me at Alex Park TAB(has the highest turnover most months of any TAB) a few months back.

I was placing a fixed odds bet $220 one minute before the mobile started, the guy next to me put a 4,000FO bet on - the usual delay in bet approval. I then said "just put it on the tote as the race will be on soon". The reply came back "there is no way of accessing the machine until the bet approval comes through". So here I was with no approval coming in time for the race, same with the guy next to me who also wanted to put it on the tote but was standing next to a frozen machine. We both had around 3 other punters behind us that missed their bets.

I then got talking to the manager, and asked him how often this would happen - his reply - MOST RACES when the trots are on. He is so frustrated with the current situation.

This has also happened multiple times when betting via the computer/iphone.

Most bets are placed close to the "off" so if you multiply this problem out how much is lost in this "frozen environment".

If you had an exit button to switch to tote - seriously how much extra turnover would be achieved.

This JETBET system may have been ok when we were all using slide rulers - and this is only one of the many issues.

 

DiverDan. I question why anyone who is betting $4000 is able to get that amount on nowadays on harness fixed odds?

Secondly I would also question why a punter of that amount would even consider putting 4K on the tote as it would shorten the tote div down to next to nothing!

Time the TAB fixed odds bookies started to grow some, as they put up the odds they should accept the bet within reason.

[bloke 1,232]

Spot On Ted. The Government extracts large taxes from the sport and like any good business owner they need to inject capital expenditure periodically to enable the business to flourish and the Government's  income to increase.

This is clearly too much for Nathan Guy to comprehend. Instead clowns like Guy and his predecessors have kept coming up with that stupid saying "get your house in order and we will do something"

Sure, a great way to deflect the problem and  do nothing.

 

 

 

[Diver Dan 187]

11 minutes ago, Brodie said:

DiverDan. I question why anyone who is betting $4000 is able to get that amount on nowadays on harness fixed odds?

Secondly I would also question why a punter of that amount would even consider putting 4K on the tote as it would shorten the tote div down to next to nothing!

I've seen a few around the 5k go on when placed via the counter - of course someone with a track record(winner) which can be monitored through an a/c will be clipped.

Without offending anyone there have been a few of 20k go through but they are known ....

Yes 4k through the tote is not smart(unless big pool) but then again ....

[Leggy 4,076]

2 hours ago, rdytdy said:

We still see today that Government assistance and support across the ditch providing millions of funding for various racing projects. Successive NZ Governments have just sat back and kept taking without doing anything. 

   

So are you suggesting Ted that if NZ Racing paid to and received from Government something similar to Australian states it would be better off?

[Ohokaman 5,825]

41 minutes ago, bloke said:

Spot On Ted. The Government extracts large taxes from the sport and like any good business owner they need to inject capital expenditure periodically to enable the business to flourish and the Government's  income to increase.

This is clearly too much for Nathan Guy to comprehend. Instead clowns like Guy and his predecessors have kept coming up with that stupid saying "get your house in order and we will do something"

Sure, a great way to deflect the problem and  do nothing.

 

 

 

Problem is Bloke, people like Nathan Guy wouldn't know whether the "house" was in order or not.

All he knows is what he's told.....and it is in not in their best interest to tell him "we're in the crapper Minister....."

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Diver Dan said:

I've seen a few around the 5k go on when placed via the counter - of course someone with a track record(winner) which can be monitored through an a/c will be clipped.

Without offending anyone there have been a few of 20k go through but they are known ....

Yes 4k through the tote is not smart(unless big pool) but then again ....

They must be a lot more lenient in Auckland on course.

I have most of my investments trimmed dramatically oncourse to net $2k profit most of the time.

Maybe I should fly to Auckland to put them on when there is the 2 night meetings on.

[Blind Squirrel 315]

This is truly a fascinating discussion as it does clearly highlight those who only have thoughts for their patch and it's relevance and those who are trying to take a holistic or global approach to the situation - Well done Midget for introducing the topic in such a relevant way. Some thoughts to ponder based on numerous posts here.

1. the analogy with rugby is both relevant and fatally flawed - as some have mentioned go beyond the realm of Super Rugby and the all Blacks and things are not all that rosy. Do the same with any number of major & minor sports/entertainment options in NZ and find the same thing - if you take that line of thinking further does that mean that collectively this country produces poor executives, boards of Directors, senior staff etc. etc. as I think if you asked any supporter of any major sport they will tell you the people charged with running that sport are buffoons as so many here seem to espouse about the racing officialdom?

1A - If you think that electing/selecting people with grassroots involvement/experience in the industry is the only way to run it then you are doomed to failure through insular thought and activity. I would suggest if you looked at the Board/senior executive of the most successful sports/entertainment or hey any major corporation - they invest in people with vision and nous in the critical ares that determine success or failure in that industry and the relevance of having worked at the coalface for 20 years is practically irrelevant in most cases - 

2. Collectively the Industry will be best served by a complete forest fire of destruction and a rebuild where there is one governing body that incorporates all codes and is responsible nationally for delivering a total "racing" return i.e. gallops, trots and doggies are just business divisions within that structure (and sport as well). The clubs become purely facilitators of the event which allows venues to become specialised in delivering the racing and ancillary events (food, beverage, non-racing entertainment) - the governing body handles marketing, judicial etc. etc. - economies of scale delivered including meetings where on-course turnover/attendance is not a crucial factor but delivering the core wagering product is (think winter racing)

3. An investment in technology and a far reaching vision for the continued upgrade of technology - I would suggest to anyone who believes the TAB/NZRB has been the sole failure in this area should think again - how many administrators and industry bodies want to acknowledge their constant demand for funding from a shrnking pie led to poor decisions on technology investment by said TAB/NZRB

That's all so far but looking forward to seeing more opinions here.

PS - If Murray Baker is so right in what he says could someone ask him what his main achievement was when he was on the NZTR Board? I would say his answer is that prizemoney has to increase is both correct (in most ways) but also fairly self serving?

[Midget 4,489]

An informed response indeed, but I disagree with your "one" model as described in point 2.

[Leggy 4,076]

11 minutes ago, Midget said:

An informed response indeed, but I disagree with your "one" model as described in point 2.

You do? Why?

[Ashoka 1,179]

Ohokaman...

Nathan Guy has no interest in finding out the truth. He is as blatantly a corrupt politician as a corrupt politician can be. The fact that this government continues to foist this incompetent non-entity upon the people of our country tells a story in itself.

All the best.

Ashoka

[bloke 1,232]

I have met the Guy. He is not bright but tell us Ashoka why is he corrupt? 

[Trump 2,741]

A few of you are warming to it but some are throwing a few other bits in, which this question posed by Midgie doesn't really need. The "how" is not really what we are looking for. You have to find the ingredients to Change and Prosperity for all and that really brings us back to Money and Management/Direction. The female/foal thing Midgie is part of the problem but really, solve the Money and Management problems, then get to work on the business. As the Meerkat said, "Simple!!".

[Insider 3,943]

Deleted. 

[Ashoka 1,179]

to bloke...

I wrote to Mr Guy in my position as the Manager of the Manawatu Greyhound Racing Club and asked him to look into the corrupt manner in which my letter to the, then, Chairman of the NZRB Michael Stiassny, had been handled. In the said letter I had outlined a number of matters regarding the conduct of the New Zealand Greyhound Racing Board that needed addressing, matters of corruption which involved the massive disadvantaging of my employer and abuse of the industry in general by the said Board. My letter was handed by the, then, Chief Executive of the NZRB, Andrew Brown, directly to the Chairman of the NZGRA Mr Trevor Deed, a person named in my document as a person whose conduct required particular attention, on the same day that I personally delivered it to his personal secretary. Mr Guy refused to meet with me and also refused to meet with the President of the MGRC. He has continued to ignore what has happened since...the manifest defrauding of my employer and the continued persecution that I have had to, and am continuing to, endure.

I wrote to the Prime Minister stating that the conduct of his Minister for Racing was the conduct of a corrupt Minister of the Crown and, briefly, explained why I had to state this. I hand-delivered this letter to Parliament. A week later, I got a reply informing me that the Prime Minister had referred my letter to Mr Guy to deal with. Needless to say, Mr Guy has still done absolutely nothing regarding this matter. You simply cannot get any more corrupt than Mr Guy, whose conduct as the Minister for Internal Affairs also requires investigating.

I attended the AGM of the NZRB two years ago. Mr Guy clearly saw me there but came nowhere near me. He is, in my personal experience, a gutless, ignorant piece of human garbage.

All the best.

Ashoka

[Trump 2,741]

Well Ashoka, he is from Otaki isn't he ??? That may say it all !

[Justitia 29]

On ‎6‎/‎26‎/‎2016 at 10:19 AM, Midget said:

Admin might like to turn this into a poll, and I have a plan to develop the thread, but in the interim I need to gauge which group is the most important in this industry, and to rank them accordingly so that we can develop the thread.

Here are my groups, please rank them for me, and do add to them if you wish.

1. Licensees, trainers and jockeys.

2. Punters

3. Owners 

3a. Feed merchants, vets, farriers, etc.. and those who service the industry.

4. Breeders, professional breeders and part time amateurs.

5. Trackside (and similar) staff

6. Fat bastards in suits who've done nothing but who think they're better than, and know more than, those who actually work in the industry. You'll typically find this type running your racing clubs and gravitating toward head office.

7. Those who currently inhabit head office.

For the benefit of the resident village idiots like Richard Joostens, Kakama, and Murray Fish my ranking is 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 although I'd have groups 2&3 rated equal in importance.

Off you go, thanks.

I don't see how you can say any one group is the more important as without horses being bred there would be nothing to own. No owners would mean nothing to train or ride therefore nothing to feed or shoe or to punt on.  The only ones we could do without are Trackside (racing already worked for years without it), Fat bastards and 7.

Some thoughts for reform -

Same percentage for all types of betting.

Off course percentage same as on course.  Same product being used so why different ?

NZRB tied to same percentage of turnover as clubs for their expenses.

NZRB expenses for any one venture capped and permission required by the three codes before proceeding.

Just a start

 

 

[bloke 1,232]

1 hour ago, Ashoka said:

to bloke...

I wrote to Mr Guy in my position as the Manager of the Manawatu Greyhound Racing Club and asked him to look into the corrupt manner in which my letter to the, then, Chairman of the NZRB Michael Stiassny, had been handled. In the said letter I had outlined a number of matters regarding the conduct of the New Zealand Greyhound Racing Board that needed addressing, matters of corruption which involved the massive disadvantaging of my employer and abuse of the industry in general by the said Board. My letter was handed by the, then, Chief Executive of the NZRB, Andrew Brown, directly to the Chairman of the NZGRA Mr Trevor Deed, a person named in my document as a person whose conduct required particular attention, on the same day that I personally delivered it to his personal secretary. Mr Guy refused to meet with me and also refused to meet with the President of the MGRC. He has continued to ignore what has happened since...the manifest defrauding of my employer and the continued persecution that I have had to, and am continuing to, endure.

I wrote to the Prime Minister stating that the conduct of his Minister for Racing was the conduct of a corrupt Minister of the Crown and, briefly, explained why I had to state this. I hand-delivered this letter to Parliament. A week later, I got a reply informing me that the Prime Minister had referred my letter to Mr Guy to deal with. Needless to say, Mr Guy has still done absolutely nothing regarding this matter. You simply cannot get any more corrupt than Mr Guy, whose conduct as the Minister for Internal Affairs also requires investigating.

I attended the AGM of the NZRB two years ago. Mr Guy clearly saw me there but came nowhere near me. He is, in my personal experience, a gutless, ignorant piece of human garbage.

All the best.

Ashoka

Perhaps Ashoka you should take this to the Racing spokesmen for the opposition parties. Winston is likely to stir things up for Nathan Clown.

[Ashoka 1,179]

bloke...

I have taken this to both the Labour Party and, against my personal judgement but on the recommendation of another person, the Green Party. Both these Parties conspire to cover up corruption, the Labour Party, presumably because they are in thrall to the same bunch of crooks as the National Party, and the Green Party after their Parliamentary leaders stated halfway through 2012 that they wished to be part of the next government.

It is quite something to see corruption being enacted before your very eyes in the High Court and the Court of Appeal. A nation with a corrupt judiciary is not really a nation, most certainly not a democratic one.

All the best.

Ashoka

[scooby3051 10,863]

On June 27, 2016 at 2:58 PM, kakama said:

Oh Dear....here we go again.

The punter is miles ahead of the others full stop. People complain about stakes, well it will get worse with punters leaving in droves overseas. 

Unfortunately, most people see you as a bit of a spoiled brat, who is pissed off with the racing game as no one will let you control it.

Just as well I think....

Why do you always have to make it personal??? Stick to the topic...you are starting to become a shyte stirrer... there is no need to go there, it is a constructive thread....keep it that way...cheers.

[Trump 2,741]

Kakama, what have your silly personal attacks got to do with me please ?

[aquaman 1,352]

1 hour ago, kakama said:

Ha Ha, your funny. 

Maybe read his first post, he gets a dig at people all the time, yet anything I say, you state is out of line. 

My post is spot on mate.

How can anyone disagree?  Would be worse than Trump!

Yeah, leave Trump out of it. Trump for President, go you beauty.

[Shad 1,554]

Do we need to get personal on these posts, sum worse than others, after all we can all give our opinions and listen to others, make our own assumptions and respect others.