Which sector is the most important in racing...

[the shue25 145]

12 minutes ago, Ohokaman said:

I see the Australian IQ level hasn't improved.......

And that is probaly why you are still racing for 7000  midweek.Picnic meetings race for that here. 

[Guest 2Admin2]

1 hour ago, slam dunk said:

And you all get sucked and brainwashed into another Midget 11 typical diatribe.

Firstly the hypocrisy. If we just mention Midget11 real name the site owner will probably cancel the membership. But for Midget11 having been privy to private information on real posters names now discloses that information. But his own oh no that's taboo. The fact most know who he is is immaterial search engines don't. There are reasons posters don't want there name disclosed just as that.

 

Neither Midget nor any other height challenged individual (excepting Scooby who would argue he is very tall) are privy to information on real posters names.  But Slam lets not hi jack this thread.

[Guest 2Admin2]

1 hour ago, Ohokaman said:

Can't see how Punters should be above the others Leggy.

Without the owners and the main people that put on the show, the punter has nothing to bet on...

Technically they can bet on other product e.g. Hong Kong, OZ etc.  The hare brained policies of our management encourage them too!!!!  So we don't need a NZ sourced product as such.  I'm assuming that Midge's initial post was focussed on the NZ locale.

[Ohokaman 5,841]

46 minutes ago, 2Admin2 said:

Technically they can bet on other product e.g. Hong Kong, OZ etc.  The hare brained policies of our management encourage them too!!!!  So we don't need a NZ sourced product as such.  I'm assuming that Midge's initial post was focussed on the NZ locale.

I assumed that we are talking about the NZ product too Admin.

Without 1 and 3 particularly, the punters are irrelevant.

[porky 900]

3,2

1

4

3a/5

6/7

Owners and Punters provide all the moolah, Trainers, Jockeys and staff provide the spectacle,Breeders enjoy their elevated status supplying the horseflesh

for the industry whilst feed /gear merchants, farriers,vets and Trackside TV cash in on the product to a lesser than the Gin swilling Club Comittee types

and Petone Fatcats.  

[Leggy 4,085]

2 minutes ago, Ohokaman said:

I assumed that we are talking about the NZ product too Admin.

Without 1 and 3 particularly, the punters are irrelevant.

I think you could reasonably argue that the reverse is true too Ohokaman.

The confusion here I think is what hesi pointed out, that we have an industry producing a product and customers of that product who primarily fund it. If we acknowledge that there is no point producing a product without someone to sell it to, in this case the punter, then I would agree that within the industry itself 1,3 and 4 are primary and largely interdependent.

[Guest 2Admin2]

4 minutes ago, Ohokaman said:

I assumed that we are talking about the NZ product too Admin.

Without 1 and 3 particularly, the punters are irrelevant.

I wouldn't say they are irrelevant as they can go about their business/sport/enjoyment without 1 and 3 or 4.  However if you neglect your primary source of income (your only legitimate source of income) then the rest may as well not exist.  No one has actually mentioned the horse!  Now if we had looked after the punter better then there would be more revenue, more revenue to spend on improving tracks and stakes.  Improving tracks helps our horses - as an elite athlete they have a decent surface on which to race.  That helps trainers and jockey's.  Better quality product appeals more to punters and so they bet more and so on.

So in my opinion look after the punter (source of revenue), look after the product (the horse and the track it races on) and the rest starts to look after itself.

[von Smallhaussen 3,226]

and who is to say that if the punter is looked after and revenue is increased - that it will not find its way into the pockets of the 'fatcats' that cream the industry now?

[Guest 2Admin2]

5 minutes ago, von Smallhaussen said:

and who is to say that if the punter is looked after and revenue is increased - that it will not find its way into the pockets of the 'fatcats' that cream the industry now?

Well that is another problem and an important one.  It seems the level of competency is inversely proportional to the level of diversion of industry hard earned to management pockets. 

[Leggy 4,085]

8 minutes ago, von Smallhaussen said:

and who is to say that if the punter is looked after and revenue is increased - that it will not find its way into the pockets of the 'fatcats' that cream the industry now?

....or into stakes in disproportion to infrastructure as admin points out.

[Dazzer 68]

I understand the emotional pull and economic costs of ownership.  Yes, we need owners.  But if someone can point out another product or service that has survived and thrived without considering the centrality of the customer, I'd love to know the example.  

if rugby was run like racing, rugby would be played in the afternoons, test matches would not be advertised as being broadcast (there would just be a gap in TV schedule), the ABs would play a couple of games each year.  

Instead, games are played to maximise TV revenues and the ABs tour ever year to pay the bills.  

We can continue to fool ourselves that the industry is about the people who are part of it but unless we embrace the fact that we need to provide a product that people are willing to pay for then nothing will change. 

 

[Midget 4,489]

Top stuff Dazzer, and oddly enough that's what made me think about this, and start the thread.

I went to the test in Dunedin and it was amazing, 27,000 people, shit bars, shit food, no commentary, very average big screen technology, but everyone singing along to Take Me Home Country Road, and when Waisake Naholo ran on virtually everyone started chanting his name.

It was magic.

I was sitting there thinking fxxx, what are these guys doing so right that racing is not embracing ?

I have ideas about that but I'll show my hand later when we ascertain who's important in this equation.

For the record ( to answer my critics ) I'm a small time breeder, a reluctant punter, and I've held two licenses, trainer and jockey, so I do have some rights to an opinion, and like most of you've I've been abused by the current regime, as an elective and committed racing participant.

I am of the opinion that the Members Council and the independent NZTR board have been catastrophic, but as is my way I'm open to being corrected on that so fire away you disciples of the current team running the show.

[Fartoomuch 1,376]

Great last point Midget. A real board would have been directing the CEO to reduce internal costs immediately as income declined. Im pretty sure the NZTR board member on NZRB would be doing the same. In not doing so all stakeholders have had to bear the costs.

[Leggy 4,085]

17 minutes ago, Midget said:

I am of the opinion that the Members Council and the independent NZTR board have been catastrophic, but as is my way I'm open to being corrected on that so fire away you disciples of the current team running the show.

That'll be a one shot salvo. The only disciple I can think of is Fasthorse.

[Leggy 4,085]

2 hours ago, Midget said:

The way we're heading in NZ 20 shillings will be a good purse soon.

Yep and Hagley Park would be a better surface than just about all remaining tracks.

[von Smallhaussen 3,226]

as a slight aside - how many read the letter to editor in last weeks informant? Written by M Baker trainer, if that didn't set some alarm bells off I don't know what will! Todays problems can be summed in one word - mismanagement! 

[Ohokaman 5,841]

37 minutes ago, Midget said:

Top stuff Dazzer, and oddly enough that's what made me think about this, and start the thread.

I went to the test in Dunedin and it was amazing, 27,000 people, shit bars, shit food, no commentary, very average big screen technology, but everyone singing along to Take Me Home Country Road, and when Waisake Naholo ran on virtually everyone started chanting his name.

It was magic.

I was sitting there thinking fxxx, what are these guys doing so right that racing is not embracing ?

I have ideas about that but I'll show my hand later when we ascertain who's important in this equation.

For the record ( to answer my critics ) I'm a small time breeder, a reluctant punter, and I've held two licenses, trainer and jockey, so I do have some rights to an opinion, and like most of you've I've been abused by the current regime, as an elective and committed racing participant.

I am of the opinion that the Members Council and the independent NZTR board have been catastrophic, but as is my way I'm open to being corrected on that so fire away you disciples of the current team running the show.

Well for a start you were in Dunedin....there's no accounting for what goes on down there...we lived there for a while.....

And a minor consideration, the All Blacks organisation is run by people who understand the game ( which is why they get it right more often than not ) and they have a National reverence that NZ Racing does not....comparing the NZRFU Board to NZRB is chalk and cheese.

[Leggy 4,085]

3 minutes ago, von Smallhaussen said:

as a slight aside - how many read the letter to editor in last weeks informant? Written by M Baker trainer, if that didn't set some alarm bells off I don't know what will! Todays problems can be summed in one word - mismanagement! 

Could someone post it? What did it say?

[von Smallhaussen 3,226]

1 minute ago, Leggy said:

Could someone post it? What did it say?

I can't because I do not subscribe online unfortunately.

[Dazzer 68]

Quote

Editor – The points raised in last week’s Informant editorial have struck a chord across the racing industry. They highlight what’s wrong with the current structure and the lack of reward for stakeholders.
What drives racing is prize-money. It’s quite simple really, just look at Australia. Without adequate prize-money there is no incentive to become involved. Turn that around to a situation where owners get well rewarded, they then get another horse, their friends, families and workmates get involved. It drives investment and guarantees a healthy industry.
What we now have in New Zealand is nothing of the sort. It’s shameful when you compare current stake levels with what we were racing for 20 or even 30 years ago, and people are asking where is all the money going?
There’s very little we can be proud of or use to promote racing to people who might be interested in becoming involved. As costs rise and stakes in real terms fall behind like they have, it’s a slippery slope that becomes very difficult to recover from.
It’s obvious that nowhere near enough money is coming back to the coalface, to the people whose investment and hard work is so essential to keep racing going.  There’s enormous frustration among trainers and other stakeholders that no progress is being made.
I haven’t got all the answers – I just know that racing is in dire straits and measures must be taken to restore it to something resembling the vibrant industry it used to be.
Murray Baker, Cambridge.

Source - http://www.theinformant.co.nz/online/KW53347/Letters-to-the-Editor

Admin - I am a subscriber but understand this is paywalled.  If there are any issues, please delete.

[Guest 2Admin2]

21 minutes ago, Dazzer said:

Source - http://www.theinformant.co.nz/online/KW53347/Letters-to-the-Editor

Admin - I am a subscriber but understand this is paywalled.  If there are any issues, please delete.

Copy and personal message it.  I'll post it.

[bloke 1,232]

Rugby is run by people who have been passionately  involved in the sport virtually their whole Life. Racing is run by people who know very little about the sport and lack passion.

[slam dunk 1,317]

58 minutes ago, bloke said:

Rugby is run by people who have been passionately  involved in the sport virtually their whole Life. Racing is run by people who know very little about the sport and lack passion.

NZRB and NZTR were never intended to run the commercial affairs of racing clubs as Hesi has noted.

For starters the structure should change with...

1. An organisation where all racing clubs can achieve savings in communication, legal, human resources etc around all the activities of a racecourse e.g. function centres, maintenance, marketing.

2. the transfer of NZTR head office to Auckland preferably located on Ellerslie racecourse. 

3. A clear definition of what NZTR purpose is.

4. Slimming down NZRB.

 

 

 

[Leggy 4,085]

4 minutes ago, slam dunk said:

3. A clear definition of what NZTR purpose is.

I would have thought that was already quite clear in the constitution, not that there's any sign of it happening in the last 5 or 6 years.

The Objects of Thoroughbred Racing shall be:

(a)To promote and advance thoroughbred racing in all its forms in New Zealand.

(b)To consider and deal with all matters submitted to Thoroughbred Racing in accordance with this Constitution and the Rules.

[Turny 1,224]

No choice Punters - without Punters - no game - simple as