Jumps at Ellerslie

[barryb 2,064]

3 Jumps races so far and 3 dead horses, oh dear its an average look on Ellerslies 2nd biggest jumps day.

The jury's out on when jumps racing is finished. It's not if but when.

When it's would up in Aus we will follow suit not far behind.

I am staunchly in favour of it being maintained but when 3 are out down (so far) in a day, it's time for more debate on it.

[chevy86 2,704]

Tend to agree Barry. Rodeo is the present focus for SAFE but when that battle is won (and I am in agreement with them on terrorising young calves etc) they will be after horse-racing, particularly jumps racing and use of the whip (that Matt Cameron gave a couple a flogging today--IMO)

[Behind the 8 Ball 46]

Like a lot of things today! It might depend if the 'tv media' takes it up... I see Richard Edmunds dealt with it politely in his write ups in The Informant...  Tim Ryan similarly in his write ups on STUFF... It will be interesting to see weather they are mentioned in 'nz racings copy'... 

Talking 'racing media',  would it be correct to say that about 90% of 'copy' nowadays  flows from the pen of "Head Office"?

[rdytdy 5,341]

The best racing on display today was the jumping. The McGregor Grant Steeplechase was another beauty finish!!

[Shad 1,554]

4 hours ago, barryb said:

3 Jumps races so far and 3 dead horses, oh dear its an average look on Ellerslies 2nd biggest jumps day.

The jury's out on when jumps racing is finished. It's not if but when.

When it's would up in Aus we will follow suit not far behind.

I am staunchly in favour of it being maintained but when 3 are out down (so far) in a day, it's time for more debate on it.

Queens birthday weekend, eight killed on the roads,and how many more for the year, won't stop people driving,puts things in prospective, a sad thing when horses are badly injured and never nice to see, hope there's not many more, always pleased to see the jumpers get around safely.

[barryb 2,064]

The litmus test for it though lads is if the 3 deaths screened on One News tonight the public out cry would be far larger than a Gorilla getting shot.

 

[barryb 2,064]

37 minutes ago, rdytdy said:

The best racing on display today was the jumping. The McGregor Grant Steeplechase was another beauty finish!!

Unfortunately Ted racing can't risk burying its head in the sand on this issue as its going to bite it on the arse bigtime.

3 deaths at one race meeting is excessive and unacceptable to the general public & a lot of racing folk I am sure.

Jumps racing wont be around in 5 years if this is ignored, I for one would hate to see that happen, as you rightly pointed out the McGregor was a fantastic race and the crowd were screaming for Snowdrop.

[Guest 2Admin2]

barryb - you are staunchly in favor of the jumps continuing but what do you want to debate?

[Guest 2Admin2]

1 minute ago, barryb said:

Unfortunately Ted racing can't risk burying its head in the sand on this issue as its going to bite it on the arse bigtime.

3 deaths at one race meeting is excessive and unacceptable to the general public & a lot of racing folk I am sure.

Jumps racing wont be around in 5 years if this is ignored, I for one would hate to see that happen, as you rightly pointed out the McGregor was a fantastic race and the crowd were screaming for Snowdrop.

What is the average death rate for jumping?  For horse racing in general?  What's your point barryb?  What do you want changed?

[barryb 2,064]

1 minute ago, 2Admin2 said:

barryb - you are staunchly in favor of the jumps continuing but what do you want to debate?

Why 3 horses died on a day that provided better footing than most winter jumps days?

Why did it occur?

Are the horses prepped/schooled enough?

Jockey's skilled enough?

As an observation, no science behind this, but I do keep a reasonable eye on this and a number fall at the first and last fences. I have a theory on why they fall at the first so often.

[chevy86 2,704]

5 minutes ago, barryb said:

The litmus test for it though lads is if the 3 deaths screened on One News tonight the public out cry would be far larger than a Gorilla getting shot.

 

Unfortunately the public perception is not balanced by the reality of basic farming, and horse management is part of that equation. Sometimes, and it has happened to me, horses are injured running around soundly-fenced properties, as well as in open pasture, many having to be put down as a consequence. These are powerful animals with fragile limbs and not much appreciation of the dangers of some of their antics.

[barryb 2,064]

4 minutes ago, 2Admin2 said:

What is the average death rate for jumping?  For horse racing in general?  What's your point barryb?  What do you want changed?

My point is Admin that the general public will not find it accpetable that a sport allows 3 horses to die at one meeting without investigating as to why.

[Leggy 4,075]

1 hour ago, chevy86 said:

Tend to agree Barry. Rodeo is the present focus for SAFE but when that battle is won (and I am in agreement with them on terrorising young calves etc) they will be after horse-racing, particularly jumps racing and use of the whip (that Matt Cameron gave a couple a flogging today--IMO)

Don't worry, SAFE are watching. They publish every raceday jumps racing death: http://safe.org.nz/death-watch

Every year horses die routinely on New Zealand tracks.

Jumps racing has a high rate of death and injury because horses are pushed to jump high fences at speed, surrounded by many other horses. Additionally, jumps races are usually much longer than flat races. Tired horses have a greater risk of falling and risking injury to themselves.  Jumps racing is impossible to make safe, as by its very nature, there is a constant risk to the horse.

The injuries that occur when horses fall or hurtle into the jumps or barriers can be horrific. Horses' bodies are powerful but also delicate. Bones can shatter into tiny pieces meaning recovery is impossible. Even when it is, often trainers are reluctant to spend lots of money when recovery is not guaranteed.

Horse injuries leading to euthanasia vary from burst arteries to fractured legs and spines. Fourteen horses have been euthanised on NZ tracks between 2013 and 2015, according to Stewards' Reports. There may be many more that have died off track as a result of injuries sustained in races or in training.  

[Leggy 4,075]

16 minutes ago, 2Admin2 said:

What is the average death rate for jumping?  For horse racing in general?  What's your point barryb?  What do you want changed?

A Victorian study 10 years or so ago showed the fatality rate for jumps racing (8.3 per 1000 starts) was 19 times that for flat racing (0.44 per 1000 starts). The jumps rate was significantly higher than in the UK or US.

[barryb 2,064]

1 minute ago, Leggy said:

A Victorian study 10 years or so ago showed the fatality rate for jumps racing was 19 times that for flat racing. The jumps rate was significantly higher than in the UK or US.

& what conclusion did they come too as to why?.

[Guest 2Admin2]

28 minutes ago, barryb said:

Why 3 horses died on a day that provided better footing than most winter jumps days?

Why did it occur?

Are the horses prepped/schooled enough?

Jockey's skilled enough?

As an observation, no science behind this, but I do keep a reasonable eye on this and a number fall at the first and last fences. I have a theory on why they fall at the first so often.

Please share with us your theory.

As for the general public well they don't follow racing so unless Fairfax continues its agenda against racing they will never know.

[Leggy 4,075]

11 minutes ago, barryb said:

& what conclusion did they come too as to why?.

Not much in that study Barry other than it provided a baseline for monitoring and evaluating cause of injury. They did also note that Vic flat race fatalities were lower than the other two countries. A follow-up study a year later on the matter of cause by the same research team concluded:

In the final multivariable model, the duration of the racing career of the horse, the number of flat, hurdle and steeple starts accumulated in the 60 days prior to the case or control start, the number of flat and jump starts accumulated over the racing career, if the horse had had a start between 1 and 14 days prior to the case or control start, the type of jump race (hurdle or steeple), the calendar year of the start and the location of the racecourse were associated with fatality.

Not sure what has happened since or what the NZ data is.

[barryb 2,064]

16 minutes ago, 2Admin2 said:

Please share with us your theory.

As for the general public well they don't follow racing so unless Fairfax continues its agenda against racing they will never know.

Admin the general public will only remain ignorant for so long.

My theory is that starting gates for jumps races should be stopped, they hype the horse up a little and they often over race into the first jump which is often too close to the start.

Flag starts for jumps presents a much better option in my opinion.

I qualify this opinion on the basis of watching jumps races for 30 years and no science is involved, I could be miles off the mark.

[chevy86 2,704]

Without diminishing the sad outcomes, the 3 horses had a total of 5 starts over the fences between them and one was having it's first start. Were they sufficiently competent to be pursuing this discipline? Generalising I know but may be a factor.

[Behind the 8 Ball 46]

46 minutes ago, 2Admin2 said:

Please share with us ....

...so unless Fairfax continues its agenda against racing they will never know.

Please explain this comment?

[Jon Trum 56]

Horses want to jump, flat racing is only for horses that can't jump! nothing better than taking on a live hedge! and the horses love it too! if horses could talk (and some can) I am sure they would choose to die on the track and not on that one way truck journey!!!

[Leggy 4,075]

An update from 2015 research publication. This shows a reduction in the fatality rate from the decade earlier study though the numbers are not as robust. The steeplechase rate at 14 per thousand starts is obviously horrendous.

Thoroughbred jump racing sits in the spotlight of contemporary welfare and ethical debates about horse racing. In Australia, jump racing comprises hurdle and steeplechase races and has ceased in all but two states, Victoria and South Australia. This paper documents the size, geography, composition, and dynamics of Australian jump racing for the 2012, 2013, and 2014 seasons with a focus on debate about risks to horses. We found that the majority of Australian jump racing is regional, based in Victoria, and involves a small group of experienced trainers and jockeys. Australian jump horses are on average 6.4 years of age. The jump career of the majority of horses involves participating in three or less hurdle races and over one season. Almost one quarter of Australian jump horses race only once. There were ten horse fatalities in races over the study period, with an overall fatality rate of 5.1 fatalities per 1000 horses starting in a jump race (0.51%). There was significant disparity between the fatality rate for hurdles, 0.75 fatalities per 1000 starts (0.075%) and steeplechases, 14 fatalities per 1000 starts (1.4%). Safety initiatives introduced by regulators in 2010 appear to have significantly decreased risks to horses in hurdles but have had little or no effect in steeplechases. Our discussion considers these data in light of public controversy, political debate, and industry regulation related to jump horse safety.

http://www.mdpi.com/2076-2615/5/4/0399/htm

 

[puha 2,177]

We are all doomed if you watched TV1 news tonight. SPCA are concerned about second hand smoke on pets and even goldfish ha ha ha . What next.  Must be a few horses that are breathing in the second hand fumes . What's  the world coming too? 

[Shad 1,554]

7 minutes ago, puha said:

We are all doomed if you watched TV1 news tonight. SPCA are concerned about second hand smoke on pets and even goldfish ha ha ha . What next.  Must be a few horses that are breathing in the second hand fumes . What's  the world coming too? 

My goldfish  drowned.

[barryb 2,064]

Well I hope the lobby groups/SPCA don't have a camera in our house otherwise we will be getting a knock on the door.

My daughter builds a hurdles course down our hallway (30cm high most of them) for our cat, I have to hold it like the starting gates and let him go, hasn't been any casualties yet but plenty of falls.

 

Might have to give it some thought as to how we can built a steeple track down the hallway.