Dopey 209 Report post Posted May 28, 2016 Such a great run today I looked at Sacred Elixir's pedigree, from Horlicks family, clearly a horse on the rise. 1600m Two year old group one's (current target) aside this Pour Moi must be a Derby horse in the future. I've attached his pedigree for comment. im a big fan. Ashoka 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swynford 121 Report post Posted June 9, 2016 Nice pedigree Chris and good luck to connections in the J J Atkins Group One this weekend. When planning thoroughbred mating' duplicating the names on the male line of your mare to me is a great place to start. Matching them up with the brood-mare sires in the stallion. (or his father etc) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swynford 121 Report post Posted June 9, 2016 When studying pedigrees I often see outstanding horses from the Sadler's Wells line (or his brother Fairy King ) that have mares lower in the pedigree from the Fair Trial male line. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swynford 121 Report post Posted June 9, 2016 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey 209 Report post Posted June 9, 2016 1 hour ago, Swynford said: When studying pedigrees I often see outstanding horses from the Sadler's Wells line (or his brother Fairy King ) that have mares lower in the pedigree from the Fair Trial male line. Perhaps the answer lies in the pedigree, lady juror! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swynford 121 Report post Posted June 9, 2016 Yes Lady Juror could be the source of great speed in the thoroughbred, As you point out Forli is closely inbred to her. She is also grand dam of Tudor Minstrel, perhaps one of the fastest horses of last century Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey 209 Report post Posted June 10, 2016 I see today that Pour Moi has been confirmed as returning again this year to Windsor Park. Montjeu stallion with clear credentials purhaps not overly big but hard to fault his finishing speed and ability. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insider 3,876 Report post Posted June 10, 2016 Agree, a great opportunity to keep breeding to the type of stallion that we are known for or put another way, to breed the the type of horse that we do best. I just hope that the fee is competitive and doesn't get hiked up to much if Sacred Elixer wins tomorrow! Swynford 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey 209 Report post Posted June 10, 2016 If it does, just don't go to him. I want to but not at any price. Swynford 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey 209 Report post Posted June 10, 2016 He still has work to do to catch up to the likes of showcasing's stakes winners etc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohokaman 5,762 Report post Posted June 11, 2016 What a win today...that's about as arrogant as it gets.....Derby type next year for sure. Swynford 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey 209 Report post Posted June 11, 2016 Derby In Victoria too. Great win Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey 209 Report post Posted June 11, 2016 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohokaman 5,762 Report post Posted June 11, 2016 Kiwis must have got some with that Double ( Benzini $11 into SE $5 ) judging by that pissy little payout..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohokaman 5,762 Report post Posted June 11, 2016 Opposition..??? What opposition.....?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swynford 121 Report post Posted June 11, 2016 6 hours ago, Dopey said: If it does, just don't go to him. I want to but not at any price. Agree totally here and with Insider too... a sire produces a Group One winner, ( or in Tavistock's case four from over 100 mares) and the services fee goes through the roof. Why ?, does the semen suddenly cost more to produce, Who wins, NOT the brood-mare owner who to my mind is the biggest part of it all. Insider, bazach and MiDeBo Racing 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insider 3,876 Report post Posted June 11, 2016 I will price him for Windsor Park....15K. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey 209 Report post Posted June 11, 2016 Just remember, pre Sacred Elixir his stats winners to runner is average. I'm a huge fan but let's not get carried away. Putting him in the performance league of say showcasing is OTT (noting one started in 2011 vs 2012). you may be right at $15 but it's would be a coolmore fee. 12-14k the 'right' range imho. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohokaman 5,762 Report post Posted June 12, 2016 Still early days fellas. Jury's still out after one decent runner...and you could argue his dams side is where the quality is coming from.... Breeder 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattski 165 Report post Posted June 13, 2016 Sacred E's pedigree is quite similar to Tavago isn't it. Both are by sons of Montjeu, dams by Stravinsky, second dams by Zabeel. How do we know whether its these pedigree "nicks" that work or whether its just a case of lots of quality in the pedigree (Montjeu, Darshaan, Stravinsky, Zabeel, Horlicks etc) + a good dose of luck ?? !! (Plus he's clearly an impressive physical specimen eh!). bazach and fitzy 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey 209 Report post Posted June 14, 2016 Stud fee for Pour Moi confirmed The recent announcement from Windsor Park Stud that exciting young sire Pour Moi will return to their Cambridge farm for the 2016 breeding season was enhanced with his New Zealand bred two-year-old son Sacred Elixir brilliantly winning the $600,000 Gr.1 J.J Atkins Stakes (1600m) at Eagle Farm last Saturday. Sacred Elixir's performance did not go unnoticed by renowned studmaster Sir Patrick Hogan who commented: "To me that two-year-old (Sacred Elixir) has quality stayer written all over him. With the remarkable season that Tavistock has had and now another son of Montjeu in Pour Moi producing such a smart individual, I believe both stallions have a major role to play in shaping our future staying progeny. " Sacred Elixir is from the first Southern Hemisphere crop of his Gr.1 Epsom Derby winning sire Pour Moi, who now leads the First Season Sire's table in Australia. Windsor Park has enjoyed great success standing Derby winning stallions like Pour Moi's sire Montjeu as well as High Chaparral, who was also an English Derby winner bred on the same Sadler's Wells/Darshaan cross as Pour Moi. Pour Moi's yearlings sold to $360,000 at Karaka earlier this year and his 2016 service fee has been set at $17,500 plus GST. end. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insider 3,876 Report post Posted June 14, 2016 $17,500 + GST = too much. There is plenty of opposition in the $10,000 to $20,000 bracket to completely fill him, so I am sure that $15,000 will get you a deal later on. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swynford 121 Report post Posted June 14, 2016 12 hours ago, Mattski said: Sacred E's pedigree is quite similar to Tavago isn't it. Both are by sons of Montjeu, dams by Stravinsky, second dams by Zabeel. How do we know whether its these pedigree "nicks" that work or whether its just a case of lots of quality in the pedigree (Montjeu, Darshaan, Stravinsky, Zabeel, Horlicks etc) + a good dose of luck ?? !! (Plus he's clearly an impressive physical specimen eh!). Mattski looking at the stats below when Zabeel was crossed with the highest quality mares available. eg those by Danehill, he produced 3 Group One winners from 129. 1 in 40 Look deeper and we can see one of those mares produced two of them so 1 from the other 128 . Way below his own average of 1 in 30 odd. Centaine, another champion brood-mare sire ...no Group One winners from nearly 40 runners Yet when crossed with Vice Regal mares every 8th runner was a Group One winner. why was that ...? that's exceptional.. sorry extraordinary, imagine going to Karaka and in every 8th box was a Group One winner. People like David Ellis spend 4-5 million every year on the best looking specimens. If it was looks What is his strike rate ? nothing like 1 in 8 If this was an AIR CRASH INVESTIGATION we would all look at the Zabeel /Vice Regal stats , where there is smoke there is fire. Not every one will agree, but in my analysis, if you are looking for Group One results, line breeding out performs all other avenues of pursuit at least five times. bazach and optical 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breeder 599 Report post Posted June 14, 2016 I see that Tepin who won her 5th group one at Ascot is out of a Stravinsky mare. A broodmare sire to watch ?! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swynford 121 Report post Posted June 15, 2016 Pedigree of Tepin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...