No Punting Restrictions

[harewood 477]

With all the talk on this site about punters being restricted for small amounts etc etc how can the bookies take a $20k  bet on Double Shot in the first at Addington at $1.40. Now you may call me  skeptical but somebodys talking porkies on this matter.

[Jon Trum 56]

spending 20k to make 8k is ok when the punter is a known overall loser, all accounts are monitored and continual winners are restricted.

[Sickopunter 403]

I doubt you need to be a continual winner, I'd say anywhere close to winning and you'd be restricted.

They do take a lot less big bets now though, from anyone. They will probably still take the occasional one like this just so they can talk about it.

[Guest]

It is very surprising that they took 20k on a Dexter Dunn drive in a field that was void of much form.

The TAB bookies are so against taking larger amounts on harness compared to gallops.

$2000 seems to be the maximum amount they are prepared to pay out net, which is quite pathetic in this day and age.

When you have a punt they then slash the odds so dramatically that it normally isn't worth having another go.

to me it is morally wrong for the TAB to restrict certain people to such a low amount and yet others can get away with much larger amounts.

I am sure that legally it would be a breach of some act.

As I have said before they seem to think that a big bet is $3000 on at $1.35 to net $1,050.

They also announced yesterday someone got $2,500 on at $4.50 yesterday at Timaru which won.

Why is that punter allowed on when Others are restricted to 2k???????

 

[Hashtag 50]

This issue does frustrate me. I spent years losing at the TAB by taking mug bets mostly involving trebles and trifecta's. I had wins along the way of course but overall I lost year in year out like most punters. Then the penny dropped. I stopped taking the mug bets that promised a nice return from a minimal outlay on horses I knew very little about. I estimated I would make 15 small deposits averaging $40 to every one withdrawal averaging $250 so lost about $350 a month for ten years. Slow learner. Before making a withdrawal I'd generally keep gambling and turning that money over. Not uncommon for me to put $5000 worth of bets using the same money until I make a withdrawal.  Perfect customer for the TAB. Then I stopped that nonsense. Now I take around ten bets a month amounting to approximately 20,000 a month . All win bets. A typical scenario is a 2000 win bet on a horse paying even money. Now I win an average of 7 out of every 10 bets. 20,000 on 28,000 return = 8000 profit a month round figures. TAB don't want me as a customer anymore and restrict me to the point I don't want to be their customer. When I heard about the 20k bet on Double Shot @ 1.50 to make 10k profit I felt sick. I knew I would have gone through a time consuming pantomime until I just gave up. TAB flat out wouldn't let me take such a bet. I smelt something rotten. That couldn't have been a novice punter. The most likely scenario to me is that punter is a "preferred" TAB customer that they just don't want to lose. If you spoke to most punters about their best ever punting day's, I'm sure most would not exceed winning 10k yet that punter got 10k profit in 3 minutes and never looked like losing. Felt like an unreal advertising gimmick to encourage mugs to try and win "easy money".

[Hashtag 50]

Think most punters copped the yarn told on Boxseat etc about the biggest ever betting turn around with fixed odds on the NZ TAB? Mick Guerin made a lot of noise about it on Wednesday and Greg O'connor repeated it verbatim on Saturday. It was of course smoking mirrors. They opened Dream About Me at 1.60 and Golden Goddess at 2.50. to my eye that was about right. Dream About me a little short but 1.80 would have been spot on. Both are superb horses but Dream About Me is a genuine star. Anyone who watched her make fools of her Australian opposition after doing more work than Gammalite knows she is a very special racehorse. Ok,she got rolled by Golden Goddess when not nailed down first up but lets face it. Golden Goddess was the only possible threat first up so not the end of the world for the All Stars. Guerin went on about how Golden Goddess was now hot fav and Dream About Me was a big drifter. It sounded like educated money but I was very VERY wary of it. The bets placed on Golden Goddess were a 5k bet,4 x 3k bets and 2 x 1500 bets so around 18k. Big deal. It was a group one race. Why the big song and dance? I tried to put 5k on Dream About Me twice @ 2.20 and 2.30 and was unable to do so. If they had such a huge laughable liability on Golden Goddess you'd think they would fall over themselves accepting my bet on her opponent. They didn't want a bar of it. Was all bullshit. I went elsewhere and always will now. NZ TAB is a joke. The alleged bookmakers are a cast of Eunuch accountants who give bookies a bad name. The sooner they are laughed out of town and replaced with real bookmakers the better off NZ punters will be. Their monopoly is unhealthy and is in desperate need of competition. If Vodafone were the only internet providers in NZ we'd all be paying $300 month for our internet and getting even worse service than we do now.

[Diver Dan 187]

I've had similar dealings as to HTag.

You should also realize HT that you can always put it on the tote - yes many times you may have to swallow a smaller dividend, better than nothing in my book.

Another option is to bet through the machines/TAB - they profile online accounts savagely now that the bankers have taken control.

 

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, Diver Dan said:

I've had similar dealings as to HTag.

You should also realize HT that you can always put it on the tote - yes many times you may have to swallow a smaller dividend, better than nothing in my book.

Another option is to bet through the machines/TAB - they profile online accounts savagely now that the bankers have taken control.

 

Diver Dan, you can't really bet on the tote if you want to put a sizeable bet on as it totally stuffs the odds and not worth the risk, by the size of the pools.

I get restrictions at both TAB agencies and the machines and so no way around it.

You can't really call them bookmakers as they are obsessed with only taking bets from people who lose money and anyone that shows signs of winning they restrict!!!!

[Diver Dan 187]

I agree with you Brodie.

The race in question where HT couldn't get 5k on at 2.20FO - he did have the option of putting that amount on the tote.

It paid 2.90 and would have paid about 2.0 - 2.3 had it gone on the tote(i think there was around 30k+ win pool).

They are definitely not bookmakers.

They basically copy 365 for most sports - quite hilarious and of course has its own pitfalls.

 

[Sickopunter 403]

10 hours ago, Brodie said:

Diver Dan, you can't really bet on the tote if you want to put a sizeable bet on as it totally stuffs the odds and not worth the risk, by the size of the pools.

I get restrictions at both TAB agencies and the machines and so no way around it.

You can't really call them bookmakers as they are obsessed with only taking bets from people who lose money and anyone that shows signs of winning they restrict!!!!

What do you intend to do about it?

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Sickopunter said:

What do you intend to do about it?

Apart from Betfair any other suggestions?

[GONSTA 1,148]

21 hours ago, Brodie said:

Diver Dan, you can't really bet on the tote if you want to put a sizeable bet on as it totally stuffs the odds and not worth the risk, by the size of the pools.

I get restrictions at both TAB agencies and the machines and so no way around it.

You can't really call them bookmakers as they are obsessed with only taking bets from people who lose money and anyone that shows signs of winning they restrict!!!!

I highly doubt you get restricted to win 2k at a tab agency and or pub tab self service terminal... You do know the person that runs them makes $$ from the amount of $ turned over. It may take a wee while for bet approval but more than 90% of the time you will get on without a problem. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, GONSTA said:

I highly doubt you get restricted to win 2k at a tab agency and or pub tab self service terminal... You do know the person that runs them makes $$ from the amount of $ turned over. It may take a wee while for bet approval but more than 90% of the time you will get on without a problem. 

Gonsta.

i don't tell porkies.

Wish I could get more on but nope.

Restricted to $500 net on head to heads as well.

[GONSTA 1,148]

6 minutes ago, Brodie said:

Gonsta.

i don't tell porkies.

Wish I could get more on but nope.

Restricted to $500 net on head to heads as well.

So your telling me they have a sheet at the back of tab agency's telling ALL staff not to let this particular person on for $xxx dollars? Your taking the piss mate. 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, GONSTA said:

So your telling me they have a sheet at the back of tab agency's telling ALL staff not to let this particular person on for $xxx dollars? Your taking the piss mate. 

Gonsta. 

you are Wasted space if you don't believe me!!!

[Sickopunter 403]

6 hours ago, Brodie said:

Apart from Betfair any other suggestions?

I'll have a think. Anyone else?

[Sickopunter 403]

3 hours ago, GONSTA said:

I highly doubt you get restricted to win 2k at a tab agency and or pub tab self service terminal... You do know the person that runs them makes $$ from the amount of $ turned over. It may take a wee while for bet approval but more than 90% of the time you will get on without a problem. 

What makes you think they cant access the TABs cameras and pick and choose who they want to take bets from?

[GONSTA 1,148]

7 minutes ago, Sickopunter said:

What makes you think they cant access the TABs cameras and pick and choose who they want to take bets from?

So you think they hire somebody to control whether they accept a bit from a particular person? Think about how many people punt in NZ, and how many places you can do it. So many self service terminals in lots of pubs. Do they have a massive book of people they don't accept bets from? What about the people that bet 2k+ every bet, that don't have a tab account and bet solely with cash? Do they follow those people on the cameras and decide whether they want to accept bets from them? Seems a rather daunting and illogical task if you ask me. 

[Sickopunter 403]

1 minute ago, GONSTA said:

So you think they hire somebody to control whether they accept a bit from a particular person? Think about how many people punt in NZ, and how many places you can do it. So many self service terminals in lots of pubs. Do they have a massive book of people they don't accept bets from? What about the people that bet 2k+ every bet, that don't have a tab account and bet solely with cash? Do they follow those people on the cameras and decide whether they want to accept bets from them? Seems a rather daunting and illogical task if you ask me. 

No they do not follow all of them but the number of people who as you say bet 2k+ is much smaller than you think. As is the number of people who bet in those sorts of amounts and win, or even anywhere near break even. Now you're talking about a small number of people.

I think you will find that self service terminals in pubs etc are a lot harder to get big bets on at

[tim vince 985]

gonsta u are right

I walked into a tab on Friday and got  a bet on to win a lot  more than2k  on kd hall a place- at 11's took very liitle time to approve- whats more mates got the same 11-1 quote a place for some time after in amounts to win about a  k or less and still got it up to  race time.

I don't use an account but   another mate got 100 on one in aussie at 28's that won. no doubt they restrict bets but not to 2k 

 

 

 

[Guest]

36 minutes ago, GONSTA said:

So you think they hire somebody to control whether they accept a bit from a particular person? Think about how many people punt in NZ, and how many places you can do it. So many self service terminals in lots of pubs. Do they have a massive book of people they don't accept bets from? What about the people that bet 2k+ every bet, that don't have a tab account and bet solely with cash? Do they follow those people on the cameras and decide whether they want to accept bets from them? Seems a rather daunting and illogical task if you ask me. 

Tim. I didn't think that you lived in Christchurch?

If you make money they restrict you.

If you lose money they don't, full stop!!

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, tim vince said:

gonsta u are right

I walked into a tab on Friday and got  a bet on to win a lot  more than2k  on kd hall a place- at 11's took very liitle time to approve- whats more mates got the same 11-1 quote a place for some time after in amounts to win about a  k or less and still got it up to  race time.

I don't use an account but   another mate got 100 on one in aussie at 28's that won. no doubt they restrict bets but not to 2k 

 

 

 

Tim, you are incorrect, in that they don't restrict to $2k.

Ask Graham Beirne!

[tim vince 985]

some punters they  may I don't know don't bet big or much anymore  or know enough about it but I can tell u I got on  for more than 2k no problem and my mate backed a horse in used to own  in aussie and won 2800 for 100- I have no doubt overall you are right- profiling in all gambling is huge but it probably depends on the hold- wouldn't competition  be great that is what we are lacking.

 

my girl got 6k off  kd commando a little while back  again on course but I followed her in - she got  300 at 21's and they offered me 6  I minute later. I was dark I can tell u.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, tim vince said:

some punters they  may I don't know don't bet big or much anymore  or know enough about it but I can tell u I got on  for more than 2k no problem and my mate backed a horse in used to own  in aussie and won 2800 for 100- I have no doubt overall you are right- profiling in all gambling is huge but it probably depends on the hold- wouldn't competition  be great that is what we are lacking.

 

my girl got 6k off  kd commando a little while back  again on course but I followed her in - she got  300 at 21's and they offered me 6  I minute later. I was dark I can tell u.

Tim, I can tell you that certain punters are restricted.

Dont know how many in Auckland but they don't like Christchurch harness punters.

Yes they use cameras at agencies and watch betting patterns.

You may be able to get amounts such as $300 on to net over 2k in Auckland on harness and you probably can in Chch on gallops but restrictions are here.

people in chch have also been restricted on the dogs.

The odds are slashed dramatically so you can't have another go.

[ivanthegreat 1,123]

The TAB declining bets surprises me but I won't question its reality. Whilst a punter who has the occasional flutter in the weekends now, there was a period about 5 years ago when my TAB balance went from $1500 to approx  $59k over a three year period without one deposit( I still have a printout of the TAB a/c balance. ). I vaguely recall receiving letters from the TAB suggesting things relating to the laws around money laundering or suchlike but I just disregarded this as I just thought this is inappropriate. At the time I treated the money like Monopoly money and it was nothing for me to put out $5-$6k on a Tuesday night and make a cool $700 -$800 a night just backing Aussie dogs $1k place when they were showing $1.10 which then ended up paying $1.20 or bashing the favorites at the trot meetings.

I had a few $10k bets and several $5-$6k on races but the biggest bet was $20k on a League game two of the three $10k bets lost most of the rest won though. .......... Point being I never got turned down and I wasn't a looser.$6k on the Caulfield Cup winner So you Think was memorable as was the $10k on Auckland Reactor when beaten on the Gold Coast. What I do remember though was the hundreds of times that after you pressed the submit button you got sorry race closed or more often than not " the odds have now changed " but I didn't think it was a matter of refusing my bet at the time anyway. I went to Europe and blew $40k of it.

What I think you are confronted with these days though is an absolute deluge of tipping advise, on a typical Saturday for example we have The First Call with Best Bet and Quaddie selections and the picks also include the KFE or DA Best Best and Value , this is then followed by the on-course assistance from BS or BP and commentator. What all this amounts to is repetition and recycling of the same pocket of news we have all read during the week but FUNDAMENTALLY it leads to the creation of false favourites OR overated horses and poor odds.

Lets not bother discussing profit & Loss you see it is worth noting that most if not all of these individuals are direct or indirect employees of the TAB. 

I get really excited when the TAB bookie comes on Saturday to offer his " helpful" advise for the day I mean really is he really going to help you make money ......... please help me. I have yet to meet an employee who has a KPI involving helping the customer at his companies expense.

Finally , how do you know that the claims made by the TAB are true and correct with regards to the big bets ?

Do you really believe that there is no market manipulation of odds to encourage bets to get placed this way or that.

My advise is trust your own judgement , what you need to know both visual and written is readily available.