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Regman

Allstars team drive

19 posts in this topic

Nat mite need hospital appt for dislocated neck after a couple serious head turns looking for her mate how bad was that last week that horse wins from the front today she let her mate get the front if she parks him u reverse the result seriously the stipes have to look at this it's a joke poor punters again and if I wer the owner of golden goddess it would be gone from the stable he was robbed by stable drive again! !!!! Not a fair go!!!!

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21 minutes ago, Regman said:

Nat mite need hospital appt for dislocated neck after a couple serious head turns looking for her mate how bad was that last week that horse wins from the front today she let her mate get the front if she parks him u reverse the result seriously the stipes have to look at this it's a joke poor punters again and if I wer the owner of golden goddess it would be gone from the stable he was robbed by stable drive again! !!!! Not a fair go!!!!

Faie enough Regman, but you can expect this when you have a stable with the dominant runners in a premier field.

Trainers don't care as long a one of the team win, they don't care about the punter.

Betting at Premier meetings on the big races is a waste of time as you need to put plenty on and then the Bookies restrict you.

Have you noticed recently the so called big bets from the Bookies desk have shrunk significantly, as the Bookies don't take any risks on harness racing.

A big bet announced today was $3000 at 1.35 so a massive net profit of $1,050 in this day and age!!!!

 

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Can see where you are coming from but I thought it looked like winner had a bit on the others and would have won whatever way it was driven. Can see why trailing it was a reasonable option. The winner really is an outstanding filly. 

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Yes but not a race anymore the way nat was leaning out of the cart it had already been preconcieved in the barn I'll go off the gate u come around walky walkies in the park so that we get another qualified for the jewells

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The quarter was 29.2 when mark took the lead . If she parks mark then Blair would be going for parked position which mark wouldn't hand up so there be more pressure and probly have to run a 28 quarter to hold him out. Which means nat would have to be running to stay in front. It not like she swung back in the cart waiting for it , mark seen Blair coming  3wide and decided to press forward . Initially mark looked happy to site parked until he see the 3wide like coming. Stil think best horse won and would've won sitting parked

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We all know both horses can run hm in similar fractions basicly whoever was in front turning for hm would win wat I'm saying is that horse won leading last start why give away yr advantage of leading easily again without a fight and sudden change of tactics when the front in big races are paramount to winning and to make things worse have a look at nat leaning out of the cart looking for mark right after the start two massive gawks if that horse belonged to a different stable there would be no handup questions need to be asked it is all to easy bloody disgracful! !!

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With multiple runners they took the trifecta in two races. Team driving if you like to call it that but there can only be one first, second and third runner in a race and the others just weren't good enough. Different draws and they would likely have finished in different order but still filling the first three.

I wonder how many All Star knockers covered themselves in the last at $17 win.????

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11 hours ago, Regman said:

Yes but not a race anymore the way nat was leaning out of the cart it had already been preconcieved in the barn I'll go off the gate u come around walky walkies in the park so that we get another qualified for the jewells

Went race record i think

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Must agree i was surprised she gave the lead up but then you consider she had to burn to keep the lead and then Purdon had the whip out when attacking for the lead  (something he doesn't do alot) i guess she didn't have a choice knowing there was a third filly good enough to run second in the field.

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1 hour ago, Blue said:

With multiple runners they took the trifecta in two races. Team driving if you like to call it that but there can only be one first, second and third runner in a race and the others just weren't good enough. Different draws and they would likely have finished in different order but still filling the first three.

I wonder how many All Star knockers covered themselves in the last at $17 win.????

I got the last quaddie

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1 hour ago, Goat said:

Went race record i think

Yes went race record and just outside Adore Me NZ record i believe.Different opening sectionals to last week meant after burning out Golden Goddess had to ease back.Last week GG got lead easy but this week had to work to keep it and Dream about me was wide early so was always going to go forward after not being able to slot in.

Couldnt believe the price for the obvious Purdon winner in the last.Thought this horse was a class above that field but started to doubt myself when price kept moving out,but was too good.Made for nice trifecta.

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I've seen hundreds of contrived results in NZ harness racing when a stable has multiple runners engaged. The All Stars stand out for many as they are high profile winning all the elite races. I don't buy into the notion about different owners etc. Can always be your turn next week. Fact is it is extremely rare to ever see a speed duel for the front involving two All Stars runners. That is more than a tad ironic when you consider they have the best horses engaged and are determined to achieve the best results for all runners. If it was a non stable rival in front and the All Stars had multiple runners they would run the leader into the ground yet if it was a stable runner they meekly hand up to each other exactly as if it was contrived. Hardly a level playing field but it is what it is.

I watched a race last week I'm certain was contrived. It involved the Abernethy brothers driving Doug Gale horses in the same race at Manawatu. Bennyandthejets got the lead and was determined to hold it. Lady Molly came for a dig for the front. Sailesh Abernethy refused to hand up. Ok, Lady Molly is not known for her staying ability and it's important to hand up to a horse who will at least get you to the passing lane. With two rounds to go P Tomado also not known for it's courage worked around the field from last. Sailesh never even looked up when brother Jay came calling for the front. Just meekly handed up. It was contrived move if I've ever seen one. Jay was then able to control the race with no fuss or bother. Stable ran first and second but I feel confident that Salish would not have handed up if P Tomado was not the stablemate of his charge and driven by his brother. Because it was only a 6k race at Manawatu it flies under the radar.

Question that needs to be asked but very rarely is goes as follows. Would horse (a) have been driven differently if horse (b) in the same race was not a stablemate? 

An investigation was held into Lady Molly being pushed out illegally with the push out rule 1600 from home but no question asked about the first two.

Here's my question. If Bennyandthejets had held the front, where would P Tomado have finished? My contention is the usual place it finished when asked to work. Well beaten. I believe Bennyandthejets surrendered it's biggest advantage over P Tomado the moment it meekly handed up to that runner. I sincerely believe Jay Abernethy put all his cards on the table when he moved on P Tomado for one reason alone. He knew his brother Sailesh would gift him the front on the stablemate.

http://harness.hrnz.co.nz/gas/ws/r/infohorsews/wsd06x?Arg=hrnzg-Ptype&Arg=RaceVideo&Arg=hrnzg-RacehdrID&Arg=225802

 

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Not a good  look for racing, and happens alot with different stables, the reason nothing said, these top stables dominate racing and the industry can't do without them, the poor punter the one that suffers. Needs to be addressed but can't see anything changing.

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Surely on the day Dream About Me was the better horse.

Comparing the two races, the heat won by Golden Goddess was little more than a sprint home. She wasn't used early to get the lead, wasn't attacked during the running and sprinted her last quarter in 25.9 (the second last quarter was 30.1). Dream About Me was fresh and couldn't sprint with her. Few would.

The final was run more than four seconds faster in record time. GG had to work hard to hold the lead. The tempo was strong (the overall mile rate was 1:53.9). Why not trail the horse to beat with a round to go? If GG had come up the passing lane and won -- as many do -- everyone would have said Natalie had driven the perfect race.

 

 

 

 

  

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Swede said:

Surely on the day Dream About Me was the better horse.

Comparing the two races, the heat won by Golden Goddess was little more than a sprint home. She wasn't used early to get the lead, wasn't attacked during the running and sprinted her last quarter in 25.9 (the second last quarter was 30.1). Dream About Me was fresh and couldn't sprint with her. Few would.

The final was run more than four seconds faster in record time. GG had to work hard to hold the lead. The tempo was strong (the overall mile rate was 1:53.9). Why not trail the horse to beat with a round to go? If GG had come up the passing lane and won -- as many do -- everyone would have said Natalie had driven the perfect race.

 

All good points, but the main problem is not that Golden Goddess handed up the lead to Dream About Me, but that she was looking for her to come and take the lead from the moment she secured the lead.

The litmus test question is, "if Golden Goddess was trained by Cran Dalgety, and driven by Dexter, would she have handed up the lead without so much as a whimper?"

The answer is as obvious as the contrived tactics employed by the All Stars stable in this and dozens of other races!

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7 hours ago, Hashtag said:

I've seen hundreds of contrived results in NZ harness racing when a stable has multiple runners engaged. The All Stars stand out for many as they are high profile winning all the elite races. I don't buy into the notion about different owners etc. Can always be your turn next week. Fact is it is extremely rare to ever see a speed duel for the front involving two All Stars runners. That is more than a tad ironic when you consider they have the best horses engaged and are determined to achieve the best results for all runners. If it was a non stable rival in front and the All Stars had multiple runners they would run the leader into the ground yet if it was a stable runner they meekly hand up to each other exactly as if it was contrived. Hardly a level playing field but it is what it is.

I watched a race last week I'm certain was contrived. It involved the Abernethy brothers driving Doug Gale horses in the same race at Manawatu. Bennyandthejets got the lead and was determined to hold it. Lady Molly came for a dig for the front. Sailesh Abernethy refused to hand up. Ok, Lady Molly is not known for her staying ability and it's important to hand up to a horse who will at least get you to the passing lane. With two rounds to go P Tomado also not known for it's courage worked around the field from last. Sailesh never even looked up when brother Jay came calling for the front. Just meekly handed up. It was contrived move if I've ever seen one. Jay was then able to control the race with no fuss or bother. Stable ran first and second but I feel confident that Salish would not have handed up if P Tomado was not the stablemate of his charge and driven by his brother. Because it was only a 6k race at Manawatu it flies under the radar.

Question that needs to be asked but very rarely is goes as follows. Would horse (a) have been driven differently if horse (b) in the same race was not a stablemate? 

An investigation was held into Lady Molly being pushed out illegally with the push out rule 1600 from home but no question asked about the first two.

Here's my question. If Bennyandthejets had held the front, where would P Tomado have finished? My contention is the usual place it finished when asked to work. Well beaten. I believe Bennyandthejets surrendered it's biggest advantage over P Tomado the moment it meekly handed up to that runner. I sincerely believe Jay Abernethy put all his cards on the table when he moved on P Tomado for one reason alone. He knew his brother Sailesh would gift him the front on the stablemate.

http://harness.hrnz.co.nz/gas/ws/r/infohorsews/wsd06x?Arg=hrnzg-Ptype&Arg=RaceVideo&Arg=hrnzg-RacehdrID&Arg=225802

 

Probably was a set up , then again looking through videos of bennyandthejets Last 10 starts on hrnz website everytime hes drawn front line he leads and has  handed up to a horse that has stayed infront until the straight. He might be a better follower as i havent seen him lead throughout much if at all. But it does look like to have driven the horse exactly the same way every start when draws front line So not change of tactics was it? But then again your probably right and they probably made a killing off the result ? 

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There is a big difference between team driving and sensible driving. I cannot recall any team driving done by allstars, dunns, abernathys etc as opposed to the blantant use of one horse to kill an opponent as was practiced by the purdons versus dillon dean, franco ice, and the bru zar. To me team driving is when one horse is purposed used to help an opponent e.g. in geoff smalls hayday.

The only time I can recall allstars maybe doing this was with border control in the northern derby - but that could be just put down to a bad drive as well.

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