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Offshore online racing and sports betting under spotlight

A working group has been appointed to shed some light on the growth of New Zealanders engaging in offshore online racing and sports betting, Racing Minister Nathan Guy announced today.

“The TAB is operated by the New Zealand Racing Board and has a national monopoly on all racing and sports betting. The Racing Board is required by law to distribute all profits from this betting back to the racing industry, which relies on these distributions to survive. National Sporting Organisations also receive a percentage of sports betting turnover,” says Mr Guy.

“When New Zealanders place their sports and racing bets with overseas betting operators online, they operate outside of our regulatory framework. This means that offshore organisations make money on New Zealand racing and sports without paying their fair share of tax, or making contributions back to the racing industry or sporting organisations that make the betting possible in the first place.

“These New Zealanders are also operating outside the safety net of gambling harm mitigation that we have here,” says Mr Guy.

Mr Guy says that this is the first real attempt to clarify the extent of the problem and work towards developing solutions.

“The racing industry contributes about $1.6 billion to New Zealand’s GDP, is a major source of employment supporting over 17,000 full time jobs across the country, and has a particularly strong presence in our regions,” says Mr Guy.

“Given the global trend towards online betting, this issue will continue to grow and needs to be addressed now.

“The issues at hand are complex but we are not the only country dealing with this problem. There is now a growing body of international work on this matter the working group can reference,” says Mr Guy.

The working group will commence this month and is due to report back with recommendations for the Minister later this year.

The group will chaired by former Minister, Chris Tremain. Other members are: New Zealand Racing Board Chief Executive, John Allen; the Chair of Sport New Zealand, Sir Paul Collins; breeder, racehorse owner and the NZRB’s Thoroughbred representative, Greg McCarthy; and two Internal Affairs officials.

“Overall, the group has a good depth of experience. Chris Tremain’s familiarity with gambling regulation as a former Minister of Internal Affairs and his experience throughout sporting circles will serve him well as Chair of the working group,” says Mr Guy.

Terms of Reference for the working group can be viewed here.

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I have a letter on my wall from Brian Murray, who was the then CEO of the TAB in 1994, who wrote this to me in response to Patrick Hogan's, Dave O'Sullivan's and my proposition that we made to the RIB and TAB in 1994...

"Thank you very much for your proposition to market and distribute betting on the internet. Although we feel the proposition has some merit, we do not believe that the TAB's customers will embrace the internet for betting purposes as much as you do."

 

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Oh for Gods sake, we all bet, well the vast majority I would imagine, on corps overseas on overseas racing.......who gives a twopenny stamp on NZ racing/betting via TAB here when the odds are offered are disgusting, insulting and the takeout degrading to us all......they want their cake and eat it too, they can have their cake....I wont be partaking......and, everyone knows if they do the wrong thing by the punter, the punter will find another way around the hurdle....and create the old black market.

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12 minutes ago, Leggy said:

I'm not quite clear what your point is in posting that now year old news release puha?

 

12 minutes ago, Leggy said:

I'm not quite clear what your point is in posting that now year old news release puha?

Nathan Guy

15 APRIL, 2016

Views sought on proposed Racing Act changes

Racing Minister Nathan Guy is seeking public feedback on proposed changes to the Racing Act designed to ensure returns from betting continue to support New Zealand racing and sport organisations.

“A Working Group has found that a growing number of New Zealanders are gambling through offshore betting agencies, which raises a number of issues.

“In 2015, about 40,000 New Zealanders turned over $518 million offshore with $58 million in losses – this represents potential lost revenue of up to $45 million for local racing and sports organisations.

“By law, the New Zealand Racing Board (NZRB) is the only New Zealand-based provider of racing and sports betting via the TAB. The NZRB distributes any profits back to racing and sports in New Zealand.

“This system ensures any proceeds from gambling support the local sporting and racing activities that make that gambling possible in the first place, and that punters operate within a regulatory framework that minimises gambling harm. Neither of these things occur when people bet with offshore providers.”

The Working Group has developed proposals to make the TAB more competitive, and help ensure offshore providers pay their fair share of support back to local racing and sport groups, including:

  • removing the prohibition on the TAB taking bets during a race (currently, only bets can be placed on other sports in-game).
  • removing the restriction that requires the TAB to offer bets only on sports represented by National Sporting Organisations.
  • permitting the TAB to expand its range of gambling products to include betting on novelty prediction events.
  • a consumption fee for offshore gambling operators accepting bets from New Zealand.
  • a ‘use of data’ fee for offshore gambling operators using New Zealand race and sport data.

“These proposals are not designed to get more people gambling - it’s about attracting New Zealand money currently gambled overseas back within our framework. This will support local racing and sports, and better mitigate gambling harm.

“The New Zealand racing industry is a major contributor to the economy. It generates $1.6 billion in gross domestic product and provides for 17,000 full-time jobs,” says Mr Guy.

The deadline for submissions is 27 May 2016 and the discussion document is available at https://www.dia.govt.nz/diawebsite.NSF/wpg_URL/Resource-material-Our-Policy-Advice-Areas-Racing-Policy?OpenDocument .

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The problem lays within. It's a bit like having a NZ made motor vehicle and in order to make it a successful business, either ban the importation of other makes or, pass legislation that stops buyers from purchasing other products. The main game is to embrace the proliferation of betting agencies and take a slice/% of all turnover. Protecting an ageing Dinosaur that doesn't compete is not going to solve the problem.

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I think the good thing about the consultation document is that it points out the potential problems with the working group recommendations that were not considered in their original report. For example:

Another possibility is that requests from New Zealand for a use of data fee could result in reciprocal requests from overseas sporting bodies such as the National Basketball Association (NBA), resulting in a net loss for the NZRB. This is because the fastest growing source of revenue for the NZRB is fixed odds betting on sports, and most of that revenue comes from sports events that take place offshore e.g. NBA basketball.

That also seems to confirm that while squealing about overseas operators not paying us data fees, the NZRB are not paying either on offshore events aside from racing. I think the whole thing could be a can of worms.

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Guest 2Admin2
3 hours ago, puha said:

 

Nathan Guy

15 APRIL, 2016

Views sought on proposed Racing Act changes

 

The Working Group has developed proposals to make the TAB more competitive, and help ensure offshore providers pay their fair share of support back to local racing and sport groups, including:

  • removing the prohibition on the TAB taking bets during a race (currently, only bets can be placed on other sports in-game).
  • removing the restriction that requires the TAB to offer bets only on sports represented by National Sporting Organisations.
  • permitting the TAB to expand its range of gambling products to include betting on novelty prediction events.
  • a consumption fee for offshore gambling operators accepting bets from New Zealand.
  • a ‘use of data’ fee for offshore gambling operators using New Zealand race and sport data.

“These proposals are not designed to get more people gambling - it’s about attracting New Zealand money currently gambled overseas back within our framework. This will support local racing and sports, and better mitigate gambling harm.

“The New Zealand racing industry is a major contributor to the economy. It generates $1.6 billion in gross domestic product and provides for 17,000 full-time jobs,” says Mr Guy.

The deadline for submissions is 27 May 2016 and the discussion document is available at https://www.dia.govt.nz/diawebsite.NSF/wpg_URL/Resource-material-Our-Policy-Advice-Areas-Racing-Policy?OpenDocument .

None of these proposals will work and are a waste of time and effort.  "Removing the prohibition on the TAB taking bets during a race" - how will the RIU police the integrity of that?  We currently have the head to head farcical bet option that goes against the point of racing and is detrimental to animal welfare.  Will they need to hire more specialist bookies to manage these options?  They have already proved they can't run decent books profitably.

"Remove the restriction that requires the TAB to offer bets only on sports that have a National Sporting Organisation" - brilliant we will need to hire more specialist bookies to provide expertise on exotic sports such as Gaelic football, hand ball, and the other obscure sports that no one gives a toss about (woops what about caber tossing?).

"Novelty Predictions" - like "how many race meetings will be abandoned during the racing season?"  How many horses did Greg really race?

"A consumption fee for offshore gambling operators accepting bets from NZ" - double edged sword that one.

"The use of a date fee for offshore gambling operators using New Zealand race and sports data" - OK does that mean they will charge for the sharing of the ITM Cup points table?  Or the New Zealand Super Rugby points table?  Bollocks.  Information that aids someone betting should be free - look a the amount of information you can get for free from racing jurisdictions such as Hong Kong, Singapore, even Australia.

This is all a smoke screen to hide their own incompetence.

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Pretty much admin though from the comments in the proposal the DIA have come to a similar conclusion. They also point out as did the working group that:

It is important to note that these proposals alone will not be sufficient to address the growing impact of offshore gambling operators. The NZRB and the wider racing industry will also need to respond to shifts in the global market place.

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I personally think that Puha has, in a very timely manner, dropped a clanger on us. Thank you Puha. I missed that these submissions needed to be made and before the 29th May.

Do all of you realise that they are considering changing the Racing Act, and that the proposed changes are within the content of the link provided by Puha? The approach is scary at the very least.

So I propose the following.

1. I will create an entity known as the Horseman's Group;

2. I would like to receive nominations/ applications for appropriate and/ or interested parties to become part of the Horseman's Group;

3. The acceptance of the Horseman's Group members will be totally transparent but it would be good to get CV's;

4. The members need to be a mix of old and new, availability and cover most of the appropriate bases relating to the horse, the industry, technology and governance;

5. The first thing the Horseman's Group will do is review the current governmental proposition in respect of the proposed changes to the Act.

My email address is berrischroder@gmail.com

Time something was done properly and with a common voice.

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Guest 2Admin2

Dumb arse idea number 1:  

We note that the NZRB’s fixed-odds betting platform does not currently allow it to offer updated odds during a race. The NZRB reports that it is looking to develop a fixed odds betting platform in the near future, which will enable the taking of in-race bets (if permitted).

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Guest 2Admin2

Dumb arse idea number 2:

The Racing Act could be amended to provide a regulatory mechanism to allow the NZRB to bring a broader range of betting products to the market. These products would include the ability to bet on prediction or novelty events, such as the outcomes of TV reality shows or the sex of the royal baby.

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Guest 2Admin2

Dumb statistics:

The working group estimated that the betting losses of New Zealanders to offshore gambling operators were about $32 million in 2010 (for turnover of $285 million) and about $58 million in 2015 (for turnover of $518 million), indicating increased offshore gambling expenditure of about 16 per cent per annum.

 

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Guest 2Admin2

Dumb arse idea number 3:

The working group suggested the fee could be based on turnover from bets of New Zealand origin. If charged at a rate of 2 per cent on turnover, they suggest that this would generate revenue of about $10 million for current estimated turnover of $518 million per annum.

Key factors for effective implementation of a fee could include:

·         a clear and simple registration process and competitive fee structure to reduce compliance costs and incentivise compliance;  NOTE: COSTS!!!!

·         suitable powers for the regulator to issue notices to offshore betting agencies and other regulators to notify of potential breaches of New Zealand law;NOTE: More COSTS!!!!

·         civil penalties which require a lower enforcement threshold than criminal penalties; and

·         cooperation between New Zealand and offshore regulatory authorities, who can place pressure on offshore bookmakers to pay the fee, and may have access to accurate data on the scale of betting with New Zealanders.NOTE: More COSTS and no legal teeth!!!!!

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Guest 2Admin2

Dumb arse idea number 4 and another dumb arse estimate:

While the NZRB is recovering the costs of New Zealand racing data usage from Australian TABs, other gambling operators who use New Zealand racing and sports data are contributing nothing. The working group suggests that revenue of about $7 million per year is being forgone for offshore use of racing and sports data.

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Guest 2Admin2
5 minutes ago, Berri said:

2Admin2

I take it you mean the topics in the proposed ideas in the submission document are the numbers you are proposing above? I agree with your opinions if you are.

Yes they are the topics.  Seems like a whole of lot of wasted time and money to avoid fixing the fundamental issues.  For example do we need another plethora of betting options that come with a high cost to implement and manage?

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1 hour ago, kakama said:

Well..As I bet on Aussie racing and overseas sport...I can do what I like, pisses me off that they want to control everything. They have had the monopoly for years, never listened to customers, now they know that punters are leaving in droves.

How the hell do the tab ever think they can run in play racing? The site is so bloody slow, the race would be finished before I logged on?

 

Now to quote Pogo, ''best post ever'!

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About eleven months ago they set up a working group chaired by former minister Chris Tremain. Other members were New Zealand Racing Board Chief Executive John Allen; the Chair of Sport New Zealand Sir Paul Collins; breeder, racehorse owner and the NZRB’s Thoroughbred representative Greg McCarthy and two Internal Affairs officials.

Did anyone on the working group get paid for being part of it or did they just do it for the good of racing?  I presume John Allen, Greg McCarthy and the two from Internal Affairs just do it as part of their jobs.  Did the other two get a fee?

Why didn't they get a punter onto the working group so they could get a punters perspective on things?  The punters are the ones that are funding everything.  They could have invited that handicapper chap.

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23 hours ago, Berri said:

 

So I propose the following.

1. I will create an entity known as the Horseman's Group;.

My email address is berrischroder@gmail.com

Time something was done properly and with a common voice.

 

Berri. Probably Horseman's Group sounds too inclusive. Many that would support you are not true horsemen as such ie not hands on but have a lot of knowledge on legislation etc and have good ideas going forward.

What about something like:

AFARA

Advocates For Advancement of Racing  Alliance

Advocates because you would be representing others. Advancement because that is the way to progress and Alliance because of the diversity of background the representative body would bring together. 

  

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