PURDON RASMUSSEN DOMINANCE

[LongOwner 217]

Did Addington Saturday night loose some more owners, breeders and punters due to a single stables dominance?

15 starters in 8 races for 6 -wins , 2 -2nds and 3 -3rds , They won 6 out of the eight races they entered .

They are great trainers - not questioning that at all - but it is a numbers and quality equation which I think no one can compete with. Lets say 60 horses main barn and 50 breaking in and through the year 60 in pre training - so at one time I think you can conservatively say the stable is directly involved in a stable of say 120 ! Then breeding and quality - the stable rejects would be every other stables racing team .

As a breeder they generally do not want my mid quality stock - we all cannot bred to AdoreMe's family - as an owner it is a numbers game - I have say 2 in work and run around on Sunday or winter as no good coming 5th with a good run against them as they have got rid of my type of horse.

The most distressing is the turnover - race 1 & race 6 turnover at Addington would of been worst than a CO trot at Forbury in August . They dominated the fields with numbers and quality resulting in two significant SS heats having very small fields as other trainer's ran away and the stable generally pays nothing on the tote. No turnover = no stake = no races !

As someone said in Saturday night - it would be good for them to be on the other side of the fence to see how it is stuffing the sport .

I say again it is not a question of their professionalism, excellent judge of horse flesh, knowledge and training ability - all A + - but what will happen to the sport when they have no one to race against and the stakes continually drop as no turnover on big nights like Saturday as they dominate the card.

Maybe Box Seat should investigate turnover when the stable dominates a race versus one where they do not and barn size versus other trainers etc instead of helping animal welfare start a whip debate .

[MisterEd 328]

Bollocks! they certainly did not affect my turnover. Ridiculous overs for Ultimate Machete, Renske B and All Star Angus. 

More in the win pools compared to Hawera and exotic pools looked significantly higher even with some six horse fields and Purdon dominance in those races

Addington win pools

R1  $17,266

R2  $19,528

R3  $19,509

R4  $25,128

R5  $22,792

R6  $17,913

R7  $29,495

R8  $28,924

R9  $32,337

R10 $20,977

R11 $16,409

R12 $12,081

Hawera win pools

R1  $12,910

R2  $14,853

R3  $13,226

R4  $15,420

R5  $23,486

R6  $32,309

R7  $18,133

R8  $23,602

R9  $18,810

R10 $19,390

Look for yourself 

Addington  https://www.tab.co.nz/racing/#2016-03-26-m8-r1

Hawera  https://www.tab.co.nz/racing/#2016-03-26-m5-r1

[final luca 189]

i'm waiting for the next blue magic...  sorry, no trust with that stable. nothing can ever go to the top and stay there for ever.. even in racing cars, something always comes along... more advanced and better than before...some love the stable ..I try never to back  runners from it.. in principal.. rather save my money or bet  on something  that I think can up  set them..  dominance?   questionable..thats why I support smaller stables. trust.. goes a long way...

[LongOwner 217]

Stakes Addington $250 k stakes Hawera $65 k .Basic maths says turnover needs to be say 3-4 times higher

[sheldon 89]

They are simply better trainers. Their horses are fitter , well mannered and can do more in a race than the other runners. A prime example was Delightful Memphis last night. As soon as Blair Orange  appeared happy to sit parked she was never going to win the race . The Purdon runners can do that but the rest can't 

Some of the other trainers still spend big money at the sales but don't have the same level of success the ALL STARS do , 

it comes down to their ability to see what others don't in a young horse and they aren't always the most expensive ones either. 

Instead of conspiracy theories we've all got to accept that if you want to beat them you have to lift your game in all facets of your operation instead of just doing what you've always done 

 

 

 

 

[MisterEd 328]

31 minutes ago, LongOwner said:

Stakes Addington $250 k stakes Hawera $65 k .Basic maths says turnover needs to be say 3-4 times higher

I can not speak for other punters, but just because a race is worth 3-4 times more I do not immediately increase my spend on that race by the same ratio. I think holding this meeting on a Saturday night after several gallops meetings and during Rugby, socialising etc is an issue they need to address more than a trainer dominating the meeting.

[LongOwner 217]

Read my opinion and I acknowledge skills A+.

That is not in dispute - what the problem is , whether actual or perception , owners and breeders plus punters are putting up the white flag and saying I will spend my money on something else as we cannot win because of the numbers games and class of the opposition.

The fun has gone as there is no such thing as a runners chance anymore.

[Guest]

Totally agree with Longowner as I have previously stated.

If you look at the tote pools there is a total anomaly from the normal.

Clearly the win pools are significantly higher than the place pools, basically double which is abnormal as the win and place pools generally are pretty much equal.

What I believe is that the win pools are regurgitated money, that is all up money on the shorties that was reinvested into the pools, and not individual new money.

Most people I spoke to last night weren't betting much at all as they could find no value most of the time, basically buying money.

If you are punting just as an interest and don't care whether you win or lose then you would be easily pleased last night.

If you believe that a premier meeting dominated by the same stable is good for harness racing then you are clearly lacking.

You can waffle on about professionalism and being better trainers as much as you want if it makes you happy and satisfied, but at the end of the day It is to the detriment of the industry.

Many owners and trainers are resenting it and will be lost to the industry In years to come.

[LongOwner 217]

1 hour ago, kakama said:

Where would these fields be without the Purdons? Would the owners still be keen to race with another stable?  They are good for racing.

I would like to even up the fields, especially in big races. I suggested that maybe limit stable runners to 2, or 3 runners in these races. Would make team driving a little less predictable, also give other trainers a chance to pick up horses

I agree with your second paragraph.

Maybe we restrict all trainers to 2 starters in any Group Race heat or Group 1-3 race. That may stop the rot - good idea - and if All Star owners don't like it then maybe a couple of  the " tight " group , which they are , will be lost but the rest of the sport will be far stronger.

[GONSTA 1,148]

16 minutes ago, LongOwner said:

I agree with your second paragraph.

Maybe we restrict all trainers to 2 starters in any Group Race heat or Group 1-3 race. That may stop the rot - good idea - and if All Star owners don't like it then maybe a couple of  the " tight " group , which they are , will be lost but the rest of the sport will be far stronger.

Lol you are taking the piss right? Geez some of you guys are absolutely pathetic sometimes. If you honestly think harness racing would be better off without Mark Purdon and his horses then you are absolutely deluded. 

 

[tim vince 985]

lets bar him for being so good- we have probably the greatest trainer in the world in either codes .

 

sounds like a good plan- the man is a freak- tell you what lets get rid of chris Waller Joe Moreira as well-- strive for mediocrity or lower - the new Harness Motto.

 

I can tell you a trainer I know was having a lot of success with a certain style of training and Mark Purdon was the only one who rang him and quizzed him about it.It sort of tells you something don't it.  Most of the rest of the harness fraternity called this bloke a cheat. He wasn't.

 

We could let him have only  horses in a the group races that cost less than 10k or they had to be driven by Sheldon or make them tow a concrete slab behind them -

We should bar Robert Dunn at the same time because he don't sit on his arse and moan he tries to tackle him head on. And don't forget Dexter he shouldn't be allowed to drive horse that are paying less than 20 bucks- even things up.

 

next  bettors delight has to go coz he is a champion stallion and some people cant afford to breed or buy one.

 

And Natalie look at her UDR at addington  - she shouldn't be able to drive  there.

 

New competition  who should be barred from harness racing coz they are too good

 

[eljay 1,720]

First candidate - Timothy Robin Vince

[Guest]

32 minutes ago, tim vince said:

lets bar him for being so good- we have probably the greatest trainer in the world in either codes .

 

sounds like a good plan- the man is a freak- tell you what lets get rid of chris Waller Joe Moreira as well-- strive for mediocrity or lower - the new Harness Motto.

 

I can tell you a trainer I know was having a lot of success with a certain style of training and Mark Purdon was the only one who rang him and quizzed him about it.It sort of tells you something don't it.  Most of the rest of the harness fraternity called this bloke a cheat. He wasn't.

 

We could let him have only  horses in a the group races that cost less than 10k or they had to be driven by Sheldon or make them tow a concrete slab behind them -

We should bar Robert Dunn at the same time because he don't sit on his arse and moan he tries to tackle him head on. And don't forget Dexter he shouldn't be allowed to drive horse that are paying less than 20 bucks- even things up.

 

next  bettors delight has to go coz he is a champion stallion and some people cant afford to breed or buy one.

 

And Natalie look at her UDR at addington  - she shouldn't be able to drive  there.

 

New competition  who should be barred from harness racing coz they are too good

 

Tim, you must be in a bad mood today.

Do you beleive that by having six horse fields on Premier nights with half the field from the same stable is good for the industry?

Your horses don't tend to be good enough to race the Purdon horses in Auckland, but for Trainers with very good horses is it very disheartening and expensive racing against them, so that is why they are being sold overseas.

Canterbury trainers dont race their horses now against Purdon when he nominates a few because they know they aren't going to beat them.

Some of your comments are a bit average but they probably could still tow a concrete slab behind them.

Not trying to knock a successful trainer but stating the effect it has on other stables, and owners.

Do you believe that owners outside the Purdon stable are going to continue to enjoy racing for crumbs with $6000 stakes then you are sadly deluded.

 

 

 

[what a post 811]

33 minutes ago, tim vince said:

.

 

I can tell you a trainer I know was having a lot of success with a certain style of training and Mark Purdon was the only one who rang him and quizzed him about it.It sort of tells you something don't it.  Most of the rest of the harness fraternity called this bloke a cheat. He wasn't.

 

I too can tell you a trainer from another code I know,(a very good one) who was convinced a trainer he knew well had a performance enhancer that he believed would "help" his horses. Best not to tell you why.He too rang ,visited  and quizzed him about it. It sort of tells you something does it not?                                                                                                                                                     Anyway,Why is it when someone makes a point regarding one of the most obvious reasons for small field size,some just resort to ridicule,completely ignoring the point.  Guess these same people are happy with field sizes and things as they are. Fair enough.  As for comparing hawera turnovers with addington,a bit unfair given the media coverage of such meetings.  Better to compare say a low grade forbury meeting.    

[Shad 1,554]

6 hours ago, final luca said:

i'm waiting for the next blue magic...  sorry, no trust with that stable. nothing can ever go to the top and stay there for ever.. even in racing cars, something always comes along... more advanced and better than before...some love the stable ..I try never to back  runners from it.. in principal.. rather save my money or bet  on something  that I think can up  set them..  dominance?   questionable..thats why I support smaller stables. trust.. goes a long way...

Think its called viagra

[lamour 673]

7 hours ago, sheldon said:

They are simply better trainers. Their horses are fitter , well mannered and can do more in a race than the other runners. A prime example was Delightful Memphis last night. As soon as Blair Orange  appeared happy to sit parked she was never going to win the race . The Purdon runners can do that but the rest can't 

Some of the other trainers still spend big money at the sales but don't have the same level of success the ALL STARS do , 

it comes down to their ability to see what others don't in a young horse and they aren't always the most expensive ones either. 

Instead of conspiracy theories we've all got to accept that if you want to beat them you have to lift your game in all facets of your operation instead of just doing what you've always done 

 

 

 

 

That's a bit unfair Sheldon.  Delightful M sat parked and still beat 3 Purdon Rass. horses home.  Only just got beaten by a very good horse who had a better run. Reverse the run and DM would have won for sure.

Also look at Lochaburn, did it tough for 800m and still won. I know he had 20m head start on Smolda  but still a top run to win.  We know Lochaburn had a long slow build up, so some trainers are showing they can compete when they put the effort in. Agree with you that more trainers need to lift their game. Then they will attract more owners. Nothing succeeds like success

[final luca 189]

barred for being to good....  well as funny as that sounds... but they refused bets on cardigan bay because he was toooooooooooo good once.. and I think there has been a few others since   .. so why not drivers or trainers? got to be seen to be fair.... wonder if the bookies have had bets.. any other horse to win  other than a purdon horse.. imagine.. 6 horse field.. and five of them purdon horses....  tab.. "you know the odds "     bla bla bla... not with my dollar..  find another mug.

[Happy Sunrise 554]

8 hours ago, sheldon said:

They are simply better trainers. Their horses are fitter , well mannered and can do more in a race than the other runners. A prime example was Delightful Memphis last night. As soon as Blair Orange  appeared happy to sit parked she was never going to win the race . The Purdon runners can do that but the rest can't 

The hot favourite in 2 year old race, king solomon sat parked and lost. Smolda was parked and lost, so it is debateable. Though both good runs. I doubt Memphis could have ever got to the lead, near impossible.

 

5 hours ago, Brodie said:

Most people I spoke to last night weren't betting much at all as they could find no value most of the time, basically buying money.

Yip, boring punting. Didn't bet at all as not a massive punter. Being there and watching races is a bit tedious at times too. Being Delightful Memphis wouldn't be much fun having 4 opponents from the same stable.....talk about up against it.

[Guest]

9 hours ago, sheldon said:

They are simply better trainers. Their horses are fitter , well mannered and can do more in a race than the other runners. A prime example was Delightful Memphis last night. As soon as Blair Orange  appeared happy to sit parked she was never going to win the race . The Purdon runners can do that but the rest can't 

Some of the other trainers still spend big money at the sales but don't have the same level of success the ALL STARS do , 

it comes down to their ability to see what others don't in a young horse and they aren't always the most expensive ones either. 

Instead of conspiracy theories we've all got to accept that if you want to beat them you have to lift your game in all facets of your operation instead of just doing what you've always done 

 

 

 

 

The Purdon horses even look different.

The 2 year olds look more like 3 or 4 year olds, big strong necks etc, really muscled up, I wonder?

[Shad 1,554]

Funny we never hear about the slow horses or the ones that don't make the cut must not be any. 

[rdytdy 5,341]

14 minutes ago, Brodie said:

The Purdon horses even look different.

The 2 year olds look more like 3 or 4 year olds, big strong necks etc, really muscled up, I wonder?

Where is Von when he is required. A Huey Lewis and The News song for sure here.  

[richie 1,027]

10 hours ago, final luca said:

i'm waiting for the next blue magic...  sorry, no trust with that stable. nothing can ever go to the top and stay there for ever.. even in racing cars, something always comes along... more advanced and better than before...some love the stable ..I try never to back  runners from it.. in principal.. rather save my money or bet  on something  that I think can up  set them..  dominance?   questionable..thats why I support smaller stables. trust.. goes a long way...

Your loss.i have had some great mulitis and divvies from the Purdon and Rasmussen stable.Give a reason why questionable.We currently have 18 trainers that have returned positive tests in last 20 years still training.Do you back any of their horses?They are the most drug tested stable in any code so maybe you need to put up proof instead of unfounded innuendo.

 

 

[sheldon 89]

The tall poppy machine is working overtime on this one , we laud the All Blacks for being the best but because we have a horse trainer that is miles ahead of the rest and it is miles we snipe and create innuendo and rumour . In today's world with all the  technology available for drug testing it's just plain ignorance  to continue to thrash that one.  The version of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting to get a difference result  . Mark Purdon is a freak at selecting young horses and giving them their best chance .its not very often his high priced babies don't do a job whereas the like of Cran Dalgety it's very much hit and miss 

[richie 1,027]

10 hours ago, LongOwner said:

Stakes Addington $250 k stakes Hawera $65 k .Basic maths says turnover needs to be say 3-4 times higher

That doesnt make sense.That meas gallopings magic million turnover should be approximately 1.8m from the 1 race

[richie 1,027]

7 hours ago, Brodie said:

Totally agree with Longowner as I have previously stated.

If you look at the tote pools there is a total anomaly from the normal.

Clearly the win pools are significantly higher than the place pools, basically double which is abnormal as the win and place pools generally are pretty much equal.

What I believe is that the win pools are regurgitated money, that is all up money on the shorties that was reinvested into the pools, and not individual new money.

Most people I spoke to last night weren't betting much at all as they could find no value most of the time, basically buying money.

If you are punting just as an interest and don't care whether you win or lose then you would be easily pleased last night.

If you believe that a premier meeting dominated by the same stable is good for harness racing then you are clearly lacking.

You can waffle on about professionalism and being better trainers as much as you want if it makes you happy and satisfied, but at the end of the day It is to the detriment of the industry.

Many owners and trainers are resenting it and will be lost to the industry In years to come.

 

7 hours ago, Brodie said:

Totally agree with Longowner as I have previously stated.

If you look at the tote pools there is a total anomaly from the normal.

Clearly the win pools are significantly higher than the place pools, basically double which is abnormal as the win and place pools generally are pretty much equal.

What I believe is that the win pools are regurgitated money, that is all up money on the shorties that was reinvested into the pools, and not individual new money.

Most people I spoke to last night weren't betting much at all as they could find no value most of the time, basically buying money.

If you are punting just as an interest and don't care whether you win or lose then you would be easily pleased last night.

If you believe that a premier meeting dominated by the same stable is good for harness racing then you are clearly lacking.

You can waffle on about professionalism and being better trainers as much as you want if it makes you happy and satisfied, but at the end of the day It is to the detriment of the industry.

Many owners and trainers are resenting it and will be lost to the industry In years to come.

I Know quite a few trainers and never heard of any resenting the Purdon dominance.If you have name them as surely their  owners wouldnt be happy paying money at sales if the trainers dont think they can compete.