RaceCafe..#1...Tipsters Thread.... Share Your Fancies For Fun...Lets See Who The Best Tipsters Here Are.
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1 hour ago, gary1 said:

your right  he won at the mead 7 lengths of fastest   . 2nd run  9 plus lengths of the fastest   .3rd run 13 plus lengths of fastest.  4th run  14 plus lengths of fastest  .5th run he won 11 lengths of fastest  ,6th run about 20 lengths of fastest   7th run  about 20 lengths of fastest  i might be wrong in adding this up but if correct i hardly find those times inspiring

At the same age, he was running just under 3L behind DDO in a race and looked stronger than him, I don't deal in what ifs but most group one dogs in aus cannot get within 5L of him now, I geuss bearville azza is another scrub aswel now, I also geuss the golden easter egg winner isn't worth using either as DDO beat him by 5L

You must have had plenty of champions, how many dogs have you had that are good enough to compete in the silver chief heats let alone run in the money of them? He ran quicker in his heat than three or four of the dogs that made the final that year

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3 hours ago, Sairy said:

At the same age, he was running just under 3L behind DDO in a race and looked stronger than him, I don't deal in what ifs but most group one dogs in aus cannot get within 5L of him now, I geuss bearville azza is another scrub aswel now, I also geuss the golden easter egg winner isn't worth using either as DDO beat him by 5L

You must have had plenty of champions, how many dogs have you had that are good enough to compete in the silver chief heats let alone run in the money of them? He ran quicker in his heat than three or four of the dogs that made the final that year

;)He's never had a group1 Dog ever! Dina Vickers is the best middle distance dog to grace NZ arguably, don't we all wish we had one like him, I'm trying to, have 8 pups to my late c5 bitch Cawbourne Renee. Dreams only become reality when one gets off their ass and does something to make them come true.......

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20 hours ago, Sairy said:

At the same age, he was running just under 3L behind DDO in a race and looked stronger than him, I don't deal in what ifs but most group one dogs in aus cannot get within 5L of him now, I geuss bearville azza is another scrub aswel now, I also geuss the golden easter egg winner isn't worth using either as DDO beat him by 5L

You must have had plenty of champions, how many dogs have you had that are good enough to compete in the silver chief heats let alone run in the money of them? He ran quicker in his heat than three or four of the dogs that made the final that year

sairy please watch the race dyna double one was going away from him and they still ran 5lengths of best ddo went onto improve do you really think aussies would use him stand him along side above all who met the best in aust and beat them no comparison

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15 minutes ago, gary1 said:

sairy please watch the race dyna double one was going away from him and they still ran 5lengths of best ddo went onto improve do you really think aussies would use him stand him along side above all who met the best in aust and beat them no comparison

Don't really see why your using the best of night times as a comparison, especially for a dog not even 2 years old. 29.60 at the meadows wins most G1 races run at the track. How many dogs have broken 29.60 at the meadows? I'd say it will be a pretty elite list of greyhounds. 

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19 minutes ago, GONSTA said:

Don't really see why your using the best of night times as a comparison, especially for a dog not even 2 years old. 29.60 at the meadows wins most G1 races run at the track. How many dogs have broken 29.60 at the meadows? I'd say it will be a pretty elite list of greyhounds. 

Gary is using the best of night as thats the only relevant time when assessing ability. This is because tracks will run fast or slow depending on weather, prep, and so forth. So best of night is the better guide to ability. Thought that was obvious Gonsta.

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25 minutes ago, GONSTA said:

Don't really see why your using the best of night times as a comparison, especially for a dog not even 2 years old. 29.60 at the meadows wins most G1 races run at the track. How many dogs have broken 29.60 at the meadows? I'd say it will be a pretty elite list of greyhounds. 

you maybe right gonsta  but at his next runs the best of the night all broke 29.60    

32.3 525 MEA R3 03/01/2015 30.04 29.38 13.94 CINCINNATI LEE (30.92) 5.22 4211 M, C4 $1.20F 5 - Video
3 6 32.9 525 MEA R5 27/12/2014 30.19 29.52 7.10 DYNA VILLA (29.74) 5.24 4544 M, C2, V0, SW $18.20 SSF - Video
3 4 32.9 525 MEA R5 20/12/2014 30.26 29.55 2.87 ASTROMATIC (30.08) 5.35 8444 S, C1 $12.30 SH - Video
2 6 32.8 525 MEA R1 13/12/2014 29.97 29.59 2.

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2 minutes ago, aquaman said:

Gary is using the best of night as thats the only relevant time when assessing ability. This is because tracks will run fast or slow depending on weather, prep, and so forth. So best of night is the better guide to ability. Thought that was obvious Gonsta.

Yeah comparing a maiden final to a FFA at one of Australia's premier tracks is a fair guide. The dog that ran fastest of night was a dog called Keybow. Based on times Dyna Vikkers would have finished 3rd in that race, less than half a length off the 2nd dog at his second start... :rolleyes:

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13 minutes ago, aquaman said:

Gary is using the best of night as thats the only relevant time when assessing ability. This is because tracks will run fast or slow depending on weather, prep, and so forth. So best of night is the better guide to ability. Thought that was obvious Gonsta.

But most tracks vary from race to race,water volumes, lure distance, preparation between races, weather, even what type of dog is in each race can change, comparing times on the same night to one another simply doesnt work, there are too many uncontrolled variables, why you see dogs that ran slower in the heats win the final, because track conditions change. The only relevant way to look at a dog like this is to see the dogs around them and the performance they put in. An avg. dog can run time and look like a champion if the other 7 dogs are slow. He was obviously going to be (at the very worst) a dog that would make plenty of group one races (he was even only running 2 lengths of Above All, I wouldnt mind a dog that was 2-3L of dogs like DDO and AA)

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2 minutes ago, Sairy said:

But most tracks vary from race to race,water volumes, lure distance, preparation between races, weather, even what type of dog is in each race can change, comparing times on the same night to one another simply doesnt work, there are too many uncontrolled variables, why you see dogs that ran slower in the heats win the final, because track conditions change. The only relevant way to look at a dog like this is to see the dogs around them and the performance they put in. An avg. dog can run time and look like a champion if the other 7 dogs are slow. He was obviously going to be (at the very worst) a dog that would make plenty of group one dogs

If applying that logic to NZ tracks you could well be right. But Gary is using Australian tracks which are far superior to ours, and run consistently, as against our goat tracks that can vary race to race.

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wouldn't worry bout it Sairy.Vikkers has run BON over 20 times from his 30 odd wins.I think most the other times he was within a tenth and had to do work.Im happy with Paul Wheelers opinion of him and at $1500 he is very good value.Another thing I like about him is the litter produced a few top line dogs and not a one off champion.2 champions and some top line performers in a litter bodes well for the future of the line.

AC

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14 minutes ago, aquaman said:

If applying that logic to NZ tracks you could well be right. But Gary is using Australian tracks which are far superior to ours, and run consistently, as against our goat tracks that can vary race to race.

Go watch Dyna Vikkers replays and the dogs he was running behind and tell me if you do not think he stood up in AUS when 80% of dogs would not be able to get within 5L of the likes of DDO and AA.

He was running 5L of a Dyna Villa who was dominating at Group level at the time (after winning the Melbourne cup and running third in the hobart thousand and ran second in the silver chief final two races later), he ran just under 3L behind Astronomize and AA (who had won the hobart thousand and went on to win the Silver Chief final in that series and was arguably a better dog than DV ) and was within 3L of DDO with DDO getting a clear run (and he has shown ability since day one). Im baffled at you people who do not believe he did not stand up in AUS when 80% of the dogs in NZ and AUS wouldnt be able to get that close to any of those dogs at that age. 

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37 minutes ago, gary1 said:

you maybe right gonsta  but at his next runs the best of the night all broke 29.60    

32.3 525 MEA R3 03/01/2015 30.04 29.38 13.94 CINCINNATI LEE (30.92) 5.22 4211 M, C4 $1.20F 5 - Video
3 6 32.9 525 MEA R5 27/12/2014 30.19 29.52 7.10 DYNA VILLA (29.74) 5.24 4544 M, C2, V0, SW $18.20 SSF - Video
3 4 32.9 525 MEA R5 20/12/2014 30.26 29.55 2.87 ASTROMATIC (30.08) 5.35 8444 S, C1 $12.30 SH - Video
2 6 32.8 525 MEA R1 13/12/2014 29.97 29.59 2.

20/12--- Silver chief heats, fastest of night a dog called Dyna Double One ( multiple G1 winner )

27/12--- Silver chief semi finals, fastest of night a dog called Dyna Double one

03/01--- FFA, Allen Deed fastest of night, broke the track record by over a length. 

 

Gummmon Gary, comparing a dog under 2 years old with less than 5 starts and comparing it with those freakish dogs running fastest of night times is one of the worst comparisons you can use. 

I would love you to show me an average dog that has broken 29.60 at the meadows, good luck on that one. 

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You can shape it however you want, but the fact is DDO is the best dog in the litter. Craig is correct in that the more good dogs and bitches that are in the litter the better. This will help a dog like DV having a brother as good.

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14 minutes ago, aquaman said:

You can shape it however you want, but the fact is DDO is the best dog in the litter. Craig is correct in that the more good dogs and bitches that are in the litter the better. This will help a dog like DV having a brother as good.

Don't think anyone has argued other wise? Dyna Double One is one of the best dogs to ever run in Australia. He broke the meadows and Sandown 600m track records within one week both at his first start over the track and distance. Along with his 29.05 gallop at Sandown, He's a freak.

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One thing I have noticed about a lot of imports that come in is that they don't always come in as sprinters, but due to the training over here they 'become' sprinters.

An example today is Kevin In Bangkok who was bought for HUGE money, he had great 500m form in Australia but the longer he is here the less and less distance he is running out, he even got run down today in a sprint.

There are many dogs that come in with middle distance form that slowly get dumbed down by the fact there are not always races for them and the fact they can race 2-3 times a week sprinting.

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Yes, a valid observation. Above All, and Clone Your Own spring to mind, both being sprinters here, yet Grp1 winners in Auss over a middle distance. Tells me our system here is all about dumbing down races. They have no idea here what constitutes real Greyhound racing, by that i mean administration setting the bar far to low.

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1 hour ago, GONSTA said:

20/12--- Silver chief heats, fastest of night a dog called Dyna Double One ( multiple G1 winner )

27/12--- Silver chief semi finals, fastest of night a dog called Dyna Double one

03/01--- FFA, Allen Deed fastest of night, broke the track record by over a length. 

 

Gummmon Gary, comparing a dog under 2 years old with less than 5 starts and comparing it with those freakish dogs running fastest of night times is one of the worst comparisons you can use. 

I would love you to show me an average dog that has broken 29.60 at the meadows, good luck on that one. 

how old was ddo

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1 hour ago, Sairy said:

Go watch Dyna Vikkers replays and the dogs he was running behind and tell me if you do not think he stood up in AUS when 80% of dogs would not be able to get within 5L of the likes of DDO and AA.

He was running 5L of a Dyna Villa who was dominating at Group level at the time (after winning the Melbourne cup and running third in the hobart thousand and ran second in the silver chief final two races later), he ran just under 3L behind Astronomize and AA (who had won the hobart thousand and went on to win the Silver Chief final in that series and was arguably a better dog than DV ) and was within 3L of DDO with DDO getting a clear run (and he has shown ability since day one). Im baffled at you people who do not believe he did not stand up in AUS when 80% of the dogs in NZ and AUS wouldnt be able to get that close to any of those dogs at that age. 

the point is above all competed in group races in aust and won did dv   the score is on the board

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8 hours ago, gary1 said:

the point is above all competed in group races in aust and won did dv   the score is on the board

A group 1 is a group 1 what ever country, it makes me laugh that any person would think it's easy to win a group 1 in NZ. DV has proved he's a champion in every way, all be it in NZ. At least acknowledge that gary1. When the late tommy smith was asked what is his your thoughts on how you would class a champion. A champion is a horse that not only beats the best but donkey licks them by 10 lengths, I remember that interview as a youngster. DV has done that against other top greyhounds cheers

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