Edward Rennell - The Box Seat

[Guest]

55 minutes ago, Goat said:

There's 7 horses paying under $2 on fixed odds tonight only three are trained by Purdon, so which of the seven would you 'take out'?

And regards Guerin he seems to get a lot of 'information' wrong about the Purdon stable so can't be too close. 

Goat, I am talking about the extreme shorties when they have them at $1.20 or so.

Tonight If I was the TAB I would  have an option without MacKenzie in it, Delightful Memphis, Smolda and Field Marshall.

I would be surprised if any of these get beaten except poor luck.

[Prodigious 111]

What a lot of old cobblers.

Norway has not used whips for many years and whip use in the rest of Europe is severely curtailed, basically just flicking with reins in both hands.

No problems there with safety and it is a far. far better look. How the TAB think that the shot of a fat old man whipping a horse is a great advertisement for the game, I don't know.

[Thejanitor 1,219]

36 minutes ago, Prodigious said:

What a lot of old cobblers.

Norway has not used whips for many years and whip use in the rest of Europe is severely curtailed, basically just flicking with reins in both hands.

No problems there with safety and it is a far. far better look. How the TAB think that the shot of a fat old man whipping a horse is a great advertisement for the game, I don't know.

Agree. Whips are sparingly used in the U.S. too. Watch the top American drivers like Campbell, Gingras and Tetrick in action, they usually hit the horse three or four times in the straight. Here horses are often hammered all the way up the straight and it does not look good. Whips use in NZ must be curtailed; officials should reduce the number times a horse can be hit in the home stretch, perhaps reduce to 10 hits later lowering to four or five. Excessive use of the whip needs to be more stringently policed here too. Presently, little is done, a modest fine or suspension, this is not good enough and horses that win or place that have been hit more than the allowable number should be disqualified. 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Thejanitor said:

Agree. Whips are sparingly used in the U.S. too. Watch the top American drivers like Campbell, Gingras and Tetrick in action, they usually hit the horse three or four times in the straight. Here horses are often hammered all the way up the straight and it does not look good. Whips use in NZ must be curtailed; officials should reduce the number times a horse can be hit in the home stretch, perhaps reduce to 10 hits later lowering to four or five. Excessive use of the whip needs to be more stringently policed here too. Presently, little is done, a modest fine or suspension, this is not good enough and horses that win or place that have been hit more than the allowable number should be disqualified. 

To be fair though the yanks are running along the whole way as the horses are trained just to run miles.

Some drivers barely hit their horse in the straight and so,I Think  that is unfair for the punter ewhen compared to others that are hit repeatedly.

I ask again are the jockeys on gallopers not going to carry a whip either?

If the whips are done away with I beleive that some the bigger investors with the TAB will not invest.

[Bimbo 734]

9 hours ago, Brodie said:

Goat, I am talking about the extreme shorties when they have them at $1.20 or so.

Tonight If I was the TAB I would  have an option without MacKenzie in it, Delightful Memphis, Smolda and Field Marshall.

I would be surprised if any of these get beaten except poor luck.

Looks like only half of these won.  Was it poor luck, bad drives or beaten by better ones?

[Thejanitor 1,219]

7 hours ago, Bimbo said:

Looks like only half of these won.  Was it poor luck, bad drives or beaten by better ones?

Delightful Memphis well driven but winner Renske B better driven. Sat on the back of Delightful Memphis angled out in straight and boom! Smolda well driven, but from 20m behind difficult did well to run second considering the time posted. 

[Thejanitor 1,219]

8 hours ago, Brodie said:

To be fair though the yanks are running along the whole way as the horses are trained just to run miles.

Some drivers barely hit their horse in the straight and so,I Think  that is unfair for the punter ewhen compared to others that are hit repeatedly.

I ask again are the jockeys on gallopers not going to carry a whip either?

If the whips are done away with I beleive that some the bigger investors with the TAB will not invest.

I don't think your argument that U.S. standardbreds are trained only to run a mile stacks up as regardless of the training methods and distances raced all horses will be tired at the end of a race. American and European drivers can get their charges to sprint home with little whip use which shows it can be done.

I also cannot follow your reasoning about some drivers barely hitting their horses while others hit repeatedly. You seem to be saying that it is better for punters that a horse is clobbered all the way regardless of whether it needs hitting or not? If this is your thinking, why not go all out and give drivers electric cattle prods or Mike Stratford style metal-lined whips to thrash the horses with?

I am not interested in the running horses and don't follow them closely so cannot comment with any authority on the situation. However, I note that Northern Hemisphere riders, like U.S. and European standardbred drivers, barely hit their horses either, usually three or four times and they seem to run well. Here and Australia it is different where many riders larrup a horse with the whip with an exaggerated circular motion the entire length of the straight.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Thejanitor said:

I don't think your argument that U.S. standardbreds are trained only to run a mile stacks up as regardless of the training methods and distances raced all horses will be tired at the end of a race. American and European drivers can get their charges to sprint home with little whip use which shows it can be done.

I also cannot follow your reasoning about some drivers barely hitting their horses while others hit repeatedly. You seem to be saying that it is better for punters that a horse is clobbered all the way regardless of whether it needs hitting or not? If this is your thinking, why not go all out and give drivers electric cattle prods or Mike Stratford style metal-lined whips to thrash the horses with?

I am not interested in the running horses and don't follow them closely so cannot comment with any authority on the situation. However, I note that Northern Hemisphere riders, like U.S. and European standardbred drivers, barely hit their horses either, usually three or four times and they seem to run well. Here and Australia it is different where many riders larrup a horse with the whip with an exaggerated circular motion the entire length of the straight.

I beleive that most horses will respond to a whip otherwise they won't try too hard.

Why would they?

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Thejanitor said:

Delightful Memphis well driven but winner Renske B better driven. Sat on the back of Delightful Memphis angled out in straight and boom! Smolda well driven, but from 20m behind difficult did well to run second considering the time posted. 

Smolda sat parked the last lap and still kept coming.

My point was that shorties diminish people betting as it puts them off.

 

[Thejanitor 1,219]

52 minutes ago, Brodie said:

I beleive that most horses will respond to a whip otherwise they won't try too hard.

Why would they?

What a lot of tosh! I suggest you watch the replays of two trot races last night that had the best finishers of the night. Both Sunny Ruby and All Star Angus came from last at the home turn to win and neither horse was touched with the whip. 

http://harness.hrnz.co.nz/gas/wa/r/infohorsewahr/wsd01x?Arg=hrnzg-Ptype&Arg=RaceVideo&Arg=hrnzg-RacehdrID&Arg=224035

 

http://harness.hrnz.co.nz/gas/wa/r/infohorsewahr/wsd01x?Arg=hrnzg-Ptype&Arg=RaceVideo&Arg=hrnzg-RacehdrID&Arg=224037

[MisterEd 328]

I do not think Locharburn would have won last night if not tickled up with the whip from the turn. He looks like one of those horses who needs the whip to keep his mind on the job to keep lifting.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Thejanitor said:

What a lot of tosh! I suggest you watch the replays of two trot races last night that had the best finishers of the night. Both Sunny Ruby and All Star Angus came from last at the home turn to win and neither horse was touched with the whip. 

http://harness.hrnz.co.nz/gas/wa/r/infohorsewahr/wsd01x?Arg=hrnzg-Ptype&Arg=RaceVideo&Arg=hrnzg-RacehdrID&Arg=224035

 

http://harness.hrnz.co.nz/gas/wa/r/infohorsewahr/wsd01x?Arg=hrnzg-Ptype&Arg=RaceVideo&Arg=hrnzg-RacehdrID&Arg=224037

 

Most horses will run faster if the whip is used.

Of course some horses will come home quick with the reins only but if a whip,is used it reminds them to keep their mind on the job.

Don't believe that the bigger punters would enjoy their investment down the gurgler by having drivers just sitting on the horse with the reins being waved a bit, but then you might?

 

[thrillsnspills 36]

We need not bother about weather we whip or not to whip by the time they get this rule through there will be no horse to whip due to the declining breeding numbers thus where they should be putting there efforts, only appox 2400 bred last season half won't see a race track and only half of that will have more than five starts not many left. She's a tuff road.

 

[tim vince 985]

u are right  mr spills the whip is really a sideshow much bigger issues I would think.

 

[Kotare_Hunter 748]

53 minutes ago, tim vince said:

u are right  mr spills the whip is really a sideshow much bigger issues I would think.

 

I guess they didn't bring up the 4 and 5 yo race that got canned at Forbury

[tim vince 985]

exactly or the fact we have 71 going round on Thursday night   - the whip issue could have been orchestrated like governments do  to  move the people away from the important issues. we have a very compliant press and broadcasters- wheres barryL   or going back lex Nicholls.

we have goebels good news propaganda -   we are winning  - im telling you we are winning. bad news is kept under the table or glossed over.