Greyhounds are not commodities

[Sairy 37]

32 minutes ago, GOM said:

Sairy, so that we can get a better grasp on your posts can you please tell us how many dogs you have imported over the years?

I owned two dogs imported years ago, nothing too flash but were still good C5 dogs, I dont own anything and havent for a long time and am only interested in punting now. I'm primarily a punter and have been a fan of the hounds since the good Ol' days. I know it already costs 3k+ to just bring a dog in without the fee to buy them, idt they should be forced to spend too much more, $500 is already a large increase

 

Coming from a punters perspective, you hurt the imports and you will hurt the interest they bring to nz, I may sound like I'm a little rude, but that is my own personal opinion and I also understand if many local breeders do not want Aus dogs coming in

[Eagle Eye 231]

with all due respect if importation of greyhounds ceased I would say NZ greys would suffer a huge blow, I have bred two litters in NZ and both bitch and dog are very successful imports. Their off spring are now NZ bred lol. $3500 to land a dog on top of the cost of breeding or purchasing is very high, a good dog is hard to buy for 20k add that and it's 23k hard to win back cheers

[GOM 1,017]

Fair  enough Sairy we agree to disagree. I think the Swift fantasies, Dyna Vickers and Little Mothers would certainly attract punters but so would the best NZ dogs. There are many , many imports that certainly would not.

    The whole thing is relative if you took all the imports out of nz racing the races would still be exciting and the best would capture attention.

   Aqua and I sort of agree but where I differ is I think it is too late. We are on the way down the gurgler. The time to make a song and dance about it was when  a few lonely voices warned of the present predicament 20 odd years ago when the first influx of imports flooded the country, they were invariably sprinters unwanted in Aus because sprint racing is unpopular in greyhound racing counties around the world EXCEPT New Zealand.

       Best of luck with your endeavours Johnno but someone like Arch has done what you ask and concentrated very successfully on developing a family of staying lines but still can seldom get fields for them to race in.

[Hound Fan 577]

3 hours ago, Sairy said:

Even yeboah who is an outstanding dog in his own right has only broken 18.10 once and I'm pretty sure bright star has only done it once or twice aswel

sairy...dont get me wrong yeboha is a super dog he runs from week to week with massive lameness and puts everything in...if he could go 500 he would be the best dog in nz because he has a heart not even my group one middle distance dogs have had...but my point is he is a sprinter and as proud as i am to have him he will never be a magic spike...lady shambi...a piggy back or a blitzem mayhem..but he will always be the best sprinter that i have put a collar and lead on and there has been a few before him....but i believe a group 2 for sprinters should be the gold medal......i should say at home he is in the same group as them he is the man..and the great thing i had his mum as well.....i can still hear her barking from chch

[gary1 361]

in all fairness to imports  how many of them go thru to gap  why not make the aust owned ones return back to aust as to the breeding why is it the thoroughbreds and trotters dont come over to nz from aust  because nz breed quality and sell to aust in large no.s why cant the dogs do this ?

[feral 36]

22 hours ago, Hound Fan said:

 

22 hours ago, Hound Fan said:

and the great thing i had his mum as well.....i can still hear her barking from chch

 

And you want to hear her new litter at 8 weeks old !!!!!

[Yankiwi 782]

Well it seems that not many are for the C1 sprinters, so lets have a look at the statistics from last week (06/03 to 11/03), where they're being held by region & in total. (C1/C2 sprints were considered to be C2 races).

 

North 4 - (06/03 - 1, 10/03 - 3) - 16.7% of all races.

CD 12 - (07/03 - 3, 09/03 - 7, 11/03 - 2) - 30% of all races

South 5 - (08/03 - 3, 10/03 - 0, 11/03 - 2) - 13.5% of all races

 

In Total -  21 C1 sprint races held - 101 races in total - 20.8% of races held were C1 sprints.

.

 

[Hound Fan 577]

10 hours ago, feral said:

 

And you want to hear her new litter at 8 weeks old !!!!!

HaHa.....hope all is well with them mick ?

[grandad47 48]

Hopefully later today I will be able to release the reply from Greg Kerr,  Welfare Officer GRNZ.      His prompt reply is welcomed as are his comments.    He has allowed me to post his reply, which is long because it covers a number of pertinent issues relevant to my original post.      In the interest of objectivity,  I will release it in sections, the first being over-racing greyhounds.      Although we all have different opinions, we should try to focus on the subject as we have drifted somewhat from my original post.   It has certainly been entertaining and interesting and one positive for me is the offer to push me around the tracks in a wheelchair.      Thank you.    Some contributors have selective memories, others take cheap pot shots, neither of which contribute to the welfare of our industry, which if managed correctly has a future for us all especially the main contributors, our greyhounds.    Ray Amer

[jimmyintheruck 16]

We have few enough owners now. If the costs go up further we will lose our industry. At the moment we operate under the free market where you can 1) breed your own, 2) try to buy something decent here locally ( difficult ) or 3) import. At least the Aussies are prepared to sell decent pups / dogs.

What happens to the dogs after they finish racing is entirely up to the owner. We do not need do-gooders poking noses in where not required - we have enough of that now. I have always found the people that I know involved with dogs care for them well and treat them as part of the family. But it is ridiculous to think we can save them all.

Regarding the numbers bred, it is very unusual for a bitch to breed a litter of champions - she may leave one good one if you are lucky. Therefore breeders will breed more pups than needed to improve the chance of getting a goodun. There are always exceptions of course.  

[Sairy 37]

1 hour ago, jimmyintheruck said:

We have few enough owners now. If the costs go up further we will lose our industry. At the moment we operate under the free market where you can 1) breed your own, 2) try to buy something decent here locally ( difficult ) or 3) import. At least the Aussies are prepared to sell decent pups / dogs.

What happens to the dogs after they finish racing is entirely up to the owner. We do not need do-gooders poking noses in where not required - we have enough of that now. I have always found the people that I know involved with dogs care for them well and treat them as part of the family. But it is ridiculous to think we can save them all.

Regarding the numbers bred, it is very unusual for a bitch to breed a litter of champions - she may leave one good one if you are lucky. Therefore breeders will breed more pups than needed to improve the chance of getting a goodun. There are always exceptions of course.  

most good bitches throw good dogs, its not everyone elses fault that people breed with below avg. broodies 

[aquaman 1,352]

Another exciting meeting at Auckland today, 9 races for the squibs, and 4 races over the middle distance. All this in prime time. Couldn't help but notice the litter of pups for sale advertised on RaceCafe. Now don't get me wrong, i'm not having a shot at anyone, but this litter, and it typifies for me what is wrong with our breeding, and this by no means is the only one. Guru Goose, Australian import, 56 starts in NZ all over the sprint or short course distance. Wins $50.000 here in NZ, A very respectable sum in anyones language, now becomes broadbitch. What chance have these pups running 500+. Very little in my opinion, and this is the reason we see at the other end of the breeding, 9 squib races and only 4 527's.

Now before you all jump on me, i know this litter could be the exception, and go on to win Derbys and Oaks, but they will need to be the exception. My opinion.

[Ashoka 1,179]

Sairy...

The definition of what the phrase "good bitch" means in relation to breeding will produce more answers than the industry is capable of accommodating.

For example, please tell me your opinion on the breeding of Miata. Would you have bred from her mother or one of the more successful racing bitches from the same litter?

All the best.

Ashoka

[Racing84 254]

It seems to me that the level of breeding of greyhounds is unsustainable.  Unsustainable in that the numbers being bred far exceed the homes available for those dogs to go to after their racing careers are over.  It should be the aim of the industry that EVERY dog that is bred is eventually re-homed.  

Breeding has become a numbers game with some breeding an irresponsible number of dogs, in the search for that champion, and with little regard for the others along the way who are seen as collateral damage.  As the title of this thread says, dogs are not a commodity.

I love greyhound racing and have done for a long time, but the longevity of the industry rests on its ability to meet the expectations of society at large as far as the welfare of our dogs are concerned.    

I think we need two things:

(1) There needs to be a quota on litters bred, with the quota divided up between industry participants on some equitable basis.  This will help to control the number of dogs being born into the world, and make sure that only the highest quality racing dogs are used for breeding purposes.

(2) We need a register, publicly available, which accounts for the whereabouts of each and every greyhound born / imported into NZ, regardless of whether it ever made it to the track.  

I'm sure people will have reasons why the above won't work / would be too hard, but if we want the sport to survive we have to start somewhere.

Sometimes less is more - less quantity more quality - more social responsibility - more respect for these little champs that run their hearts out for our entertainment.

 

[grandad47 48]

 Constructive comments complete with a solution.    Well done.

[Nadzeya Ostapchuk 40]

4 hours ago, aquaman said:

Another exciting meeting at Auckland today, 9 races for the squibs, and 4 races over the middle distance. All this in prime time. Couldn't help but notice the litter of pups for sale advertised on RaceCafe. Now don't get me wrong, i'm not having a shot at anyone, but this litter, and it typifies for me what is wrong with our breeding, and this by no means is the only one. Guru Goose, Australian import, 56 starts in NZ all over the sprint or short course distance. Wins $50.000 here in NZ, A very respectable sum in anyones language, now becomes broadbitch. What chance have these pups running 500+. Very little in my opinion, and this is the reason we see at the other end of the breeding, 9 squib races and only 4 527's.

Now before you all jump on me, i know this litter could be the exception, and go on to win Derbys and Oaks, but they will need to be the exception. My opinion.

Wow. Transgender greyhounds?????

The Goose is a "broadbitch" now???? 

[aquaman 1,352]

55 minutes ago, Nadzeya Ostapchuk said:

Wow. Transgender greyhounds?????

The Goose is a "broadbitch" now???? 

Gee, its worse than i thought. Secret Star, 70 odd starts, all sprints, over the Goose, 50 odd starts all sprints. Great breeding for 200 mtr dogs.

[Sairy 37]

42 minutes ago, aquaman said:

Gee, its worse than i thought. Secret Star, 70 odd starts, all sprints, over the Goose, 50 odd starts all sprints. Great breeding for 200 mtr dogs.

I agree, if you are breeding with a bitch like secret star (Bright star also comes to mind), wouldnt you try and inject as much strength into the line as possible instead of using weak, sprinter like sires

[Racing84 254]

This is what every dog deserves

[aquaman 1,352]

10 hours ago, Sairy said:

I agree, if you are breeding with a bitch like secret star (Bright star also comes to mind), wouldnt you try and inject as much strength into the line as possible instead of using weak, sprinter like sires

In a way Sairy, i do not blame the breeders in NZ for breeding squibs, [ sprinters]. The system is set up to encourage that type of breeding. Good stake money, race them 3/4 times a week, you do not have to do any fitness training thats otherwise required for middle or staying Greyhounds, and now they are recognised with Gp1 races. Its the system thats at fault in my opinion. I have always maintained, we will never grow the sport on the back of weak racing. Quality is the way forward for me.

[GOM 1,017]

13 hours ago, grandad47 said:

 Constructive comments complete with a solution.    Well done.

Unfortunately Poppa that is no solution, can you think of champion bitches that were complete failures as broodbitches, I can.

The horse industry in NZ (apart from thoroughbred and cart horses include farm , recreational and show horses) are unable to rehome a proportion of their animals and it is no different for the dogs

 

[Kinetic 124]

a proportion of dogs are not suitable to be rehomed. We do not live in a perfect world here people, all industries have associated problems.....runoff and intensification through farming for example ruining our rivers and lakes, but we all still buy milk and the industry creates jobs and millions in gdp. The racing industry is no different, so why not just be realistic and transparent. Thousands of jobs, with good people getting up 7 days a week of hard graft, looking after animals far better than the roaming chained up all day dangerous dogs the dog pounds put down in their hundreds every day. Still people bag the imports, get real, having dyna vikkers brother to the magnificent dyna double one and a topline dog in his own right, is nothing but awesome for our industry.

I work in a contentious industry, that regularly gets so much flack from people who think in this modern era, things are perfect......there are so many issues that are miles ahead in priority in this country, how about our terrible level of domestic abuse and child poverty?

[aquaman 1,352]

Agree Kinetic, that is the rehoming of Greyhounds. Its a fact of life, not all can be rehomed. Only some are suitable. As GOM says, the horse industry is no different. The dairy farmers are culling all the time. But what we can do is minimise the damage by breeding smarter. We also need to clean up how they are dispatched. We do not need or want rogue's that shoot them, and fire them into an offal pit. The NZGRA need to be very proactive in this area. They need to sight a Vet cert when they are put down. There will always be accidents and illness that kill Greyhounds, but these will be rare, and need to be reported to the Ass straight away. But the reality is, healthy dogs will be put down, especially slow ones, we need to except this, and tell the animal right activists to go take a hike.