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langas

Failed Breath Tests

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Another circuit, another drunk! I applaud the RIU taking these measures. If this is supposed to be a professional sport than a few of these participants need a good look in the mirror. It woke Orange up. Hopfully wakes Butt up also!

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Think they should have tested a few horses as well. Plenty of roughies up there.Was good day and great grass track racing.Got young mr grace at 40s fixed odds, was very unlucky at westport.

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3 hours ago, L@ngas said:

Another circuit, another drunk! I applaud the RIU taking these measures. If this is supposed to be a professional sport than a few of these participants need a good look in the mirror. It woke Orange up. Hopfully wakes Butt up also!

If the reading I have heard is correct he's hardly a drunk. A little over a year ago he would have legally been able to drive a car. 

Agree with the rest of your post though. 

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12 hours ago, L@ngas said:

Another circuit, another drunk! I applaud the RIU taking these measures. If this is supposed to be a professional sport than a few of these participants need a good look in the mirror. It woke Orange up. Hopfully wakes Butt up also!

 

9 hours ago, tonkatime said:

If the reading I have heard is correct he's hardly a drunk. A little over a year ago he would have legally been able to drive a car. 

Agree with the rest of your post though. 

You have to be an egg. Please inform all, how many drunken drivers or jockeys have caused accidents. Just bull@hit by the useless RIU justifying its existence.

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29 minutes ago, aquaman said:

 

You have to be an egg. Please inform all, how many drunken drivers or jockeys have caused accidents. Just bull@hit by the useless RIU justifying its existence.

Rules are rules are they not? Should the RIU just ignore them? What if it was marijuana or meth? Would your opinion change because of the drug in question? Should someone be let off because a couple of years ago they would have been allowed to drive a car? In your opinion should they be allowed to drink and drive an animal that has a mind of its own on occassions?

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Interesting situation here once again.

Yes there are rules that need to be abided by when it comes to alcohol.

Dont know what Bob Butt's reading was but 100 is definitely extremely low tolerance and wouldn't think Bob Butt has a drinking problem at any low level.

It seems that the readings from Blair Orange and Bob Butt have been taken on the second day of a meeting or circuit.

The scenario is that the drivers have probably been drinking the day or night before and it is still in their system from the day before rather than drinking on the day tested.

Harness people have always been quite accustomed to having a drink or two especially during off days.

Maybe on future 2 day meetings or circuits the drivers should have a testing machine so they can check themselves prior to the 

Stipes or whoever test get on the job.

 

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1 hour ago, GONSTA said:

.Rules are rules are they not? Should the RIU just ignore them? What if it was marijuana or meth? Would your opinion change because of the drug in question? Should someone be let off because a couple of years ago they would have been allowed to drive a car? In your opinion should they be allowed to drink and drive an animal that has a mind of its own on occassions?

Yes of course they should. Running around with breath testing kits is just more rubbish in our over regulated society. They should just apply common sense, something that is completely lacking. If somebody is obviously affected by drink or drugs, then so be it, test them, but just doing it randomly is wrong. They are creating problems to justify their existence.

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1 hour ago, GONSTA said:

Rules are rules are they not? Should the RIU just ignore them? What if it was marijuana or meth? Would your opinion change because of the drug in question? Should someone be let off because a couple of years ago they would have been allowed to drive a car? In your opinion should they be allowed to drink and drive an animal that has a mind of its own on occassions?

I never suggested someone should be let of because they would have been able to drive a car a couple of years ago. I was pointing out that the description of them as "another drunk" was probably a little bit harsh given the reading that I heard.

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aquaman - perhaps they shouldn't be allowed to smoke or have sex within 24 hours of their first drive - sorry couldn't resist that.     It's sort of like the police stopping crime, which case we wouldn't need police would we?      In this (and the earlier instance) I would have liked the Stipes to test and if the person was over the limit be told that if he drives he will be charged - not charged before he actually drove.    Wouldn't it be nice to see Officialdom help rather than be heavy handed.     A driver who would be told not to drive would lose financially anyway - driving fee, potential stake percentage, and perhaps even accommodation and transport costs, petrol etc.   Oh well, back to dreamland!

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I despise the very unhelpful term "drunk driving". It's a blanket phrase that does way more harm than good. How many drunk people actually admit they are drunk? Very few. All you need to do is examine the typical answer from a pulled over impaired driver. He's been tail gating and overtaking dangerously etc etc.  "Have you been drinking sir?" ...yes,I've had two cans. What that means of course is I had two cans about three hours ago..and I've had about ten more since. 

Then you have all the confusion about men being able to drink more than woman before exceeding the limit and bigger people being able to consume more than smaller people etc. It's all a confusing unhelpful mess on what is a critical issue.

You even have a few lunatics out there that sincerely believe they actually drive better after a couple of beers.

You hear news reports of "drunk drivers" causing mayhem. Most drivers who routinely drive impaired will ignore that as they don't see themselves as a "drunk driver". If drunk drivers don't think they are drunk drivers then what hope have we got?

We need to change the terminology on alcohol impaired drivers and educate the people who still don't get it. if you drive under the influence of alcohol you are a DIBA..= Driver impaired by alcohol or DIBD = Driver impaired by drugs.

Then we need to educate the masses with no input or influence from the giant companies out there making billions from alcohol sales. Show just how much alcohol it takes before your reactions etc are affected. It's a very small amount. You don't need to be "drunk" in the way most people refer to a drunk person. If you've had one glass of beer you should not be driving on our roads with other innocent kiwis,not operating machinery,not riding or driving a horse in a race.

I believe we should adopt a zero alcohol limit. Remove all the confusion on this issue and the total hypocrisy in a P.C world that we allow anyone to drink any amount of alcohol and then be given the green light to drive on our roads. It's one thing for an alcohol impaired driver not to value his own life etc but another altogether to have him using the same roads everyone else who values their life is also using.

You can't be a little bit pregnant. You either are or you aren't.  

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22 minutes ago, aquaman said:

Yes of course they should. Running around with breath testing kits is just more rubbish in our over regulated society. They should just apply common sense, something that is completely lacking. If somebody is obviously affected by drink or drugs, then so be it, test them, but just doing it randomly is wrong. They are creating problems to justify their existence.

I assume you have a wife Aquaman? I also assume you love her very much and have planned out the rest of your life journey together?

She goes to the supermarket later today to pick up a few supplies. On the way home her car is T Boned by a driver impaired by alcohol. Tragically your wife is killed. Her life is taken away and your life is forever changed along with that of all her loved ones.

Would you still be saying breath testing kits are rubbish?

Random breath testing is yet another incentive for the meatheads out there not to drive after consuming alcohol. You talk about an over regulated society. Really? How has self regulating been working?  If it works so well why are our cemeteries full of the victims of alcohol impaired drivers?

I can understand people being passionate about this issue. I frankly don't understand why anyone would be passionate against it.  

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Does anyone know what Bob tested.

As I say he probably thought he was fine as he was drinking the day or night before and would have been out of his system.

He wouldn't have wanted to drive under the influence if it was going to affect his thought pattern or endanger other people's life.

Eljay is probably right that he should have been stood down and fined and warned if the reading was very low!

There are far more incompetent drivers driving that are a bigger danger to other drivers than Bob Butt driving with a low alcohol reading!

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To be honest I don't care what the reading was! 100mcg Is the rule and its up to them to manage it just like they manage the TC02 levels in their race horses. Its a common theme in these circuits that they have a night out with the Sat off and I don't have an issue with that at all. These guys are some of the hardest working people who get paid very little for their time and deserve to have a few, BUT the issue I have is that they know that on Sunday Its game on again and they are representing their own stable their owners  their lively hood and the Industry.

I don't know if Bob took his own horses over, so with the horses Stabled in Westport the concerning thing for me is that he MAY have driven to Reefton before arriving on track which harps back to JayTee's point.

If I am an Owner of a Horse Bob is driving or in the care of. I want to know that he is Intelligent enough to at least turn up to the track in one piece and not have any Alcohol in his system. Over 100mcgs at minimum 11am possibly longer if he didn't have one in the first is not good enough and I say well done to the RIU for doing THEIR JOB

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Fair enough, don't expect everyone to agree with me, as rules are rules.

The point I was trying to make and everyone would have to agree, is that the RIU if they are to have an integrity should be policing incompetent drivers who shouldn't be out on the track, to my mind is more dangerous.

Have a good look at the UDRs of some of the nillers  that week in and week out are allowed to participate.

If the industry is looking for professionalism from the drivers then police incompetence!!!

 

 

 

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If you applied for your licence and got it within the guidelines requested Brodie than you are eligible to drive its as simple as that. Incompetence can come in many different varieties in this game and can many times be fuelled by punters frustrations. I don't have an answer for your problem as I believe its not one that can be solved over night. The issue at hand can't be either but the RIU publicly cleaning this Industry is a good thing. I hope he doesn't get to drive Conan Bridge just so that lessons are indeed learnt!

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30 minutes ago, Brodie said:

Fair enough, don't expect everyone to agree with me, as rules are rules.

The point I was trying to make and everyone would have to agree, is that the RIU if they are to have an integrity should be policing incompetent drivers who shouldn't be out on the track, to my mind is more dangerous.

Have a good look at the UDRs of some of the nillers  that week in and week out are allowed to participate.

If the industry is looking for professionalism from the drivers then police incompetence!!!

 

 

 

Since when have UDR's been evidence of incompetence Brodie? 

I've got no issue with older hobby drivers closing in on retirement who only win one race a year. Some of them have forgotten more than most of us will ever know. The only time they become an issue is if they are acting as a wall for runners behind wanting to get past. Why are you worried about them? If you are talking about cowboy races,then that's a different ballgame ay Tim :)  

A look I personally find difficult to watch is fat bastard drivers with their tops waving around like flags in the wind. Fair dinkum gypsy look crossed with the guy that fell off the back of the rubbish truck. Nice.

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45 minutes ago, L@ngas said:

If you applied for your licence and got it within the guidelines requested Brodie than you are eligible to drive its as simple as that. Incompetence can come in many different varieties in this game and can many times be fuelled by punters frustrations. I don't have an answer for your problem as I believe its not one that can be solved over night. The issue at hand can't be either but the RIU publicly cleaning this Industry is a good thing. I hope he doesn't get to drive Conan Bridge just so that lessons are indeed learnt!

Of course RIU keeping the industry clean is a must!

However, to be fair a good young bloke trying to make a career out of harness racing drinking the day before driving is not exactly the crime of the century, or is it?

I don't condone them being pissed in the cart either, but we don't know how many he had had, or his reading, and he thought he was fine.

How the hell was he meant to know what his reading was?

He has expressed remorse and should have been stood down for the day and fined, end of story.

 

 

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47 minutes ago, JayTee2016 said:

Since when have UDR's been evidence of incompetence Brodie? 

I've got no issue with older hobby drivers closing in on retirement who only win one race a year. Some of them have forgotten more than most of us will ever know. The only time they become an issue is if they are acting as a wall for runners behind wanting to get past. Why are you worried about them? If you are talking about cowboy races,then that's a different ballgame ay Tim :)  

A look I personally find difficult to watch is fat bastard drivers with their tops waving around like flags in the wind. Fair dinkum gypsy look crossed with the guy that fell off the back of the rubbish truck. Nice.

UDRs have got a lot to do with competence or incompetence.

You will certainly find that all nil drivers have a low UDR, and yet we still back them thinking that they might drive a bottler, but generally no.

I am not sure how long the Stipes have been testing for alcohol, does anyone know?

I don't beleive that very many drivers are out on the track with alcohol in them, and if other drivers suspected another driver was impaired by alcohol they would be potted.

Can Anyone please advise how many harness accidents over the years have been due to a driver who was influenced by alcohol?

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1 hour ago, Brodie said:

UDRs have got a lot to do with competence or incompetence.

You will certainly find that all nil drivers have a low UDR, and yet we still back them thinking that they might drive a bottler, but generally no.

I am not sure how long the Stipes have been testing for alcohol, does anyone know?

I don't beleive that very many drivers are out on the track with alcohol in them, and if other drivers suspected another driver was impaired by alcohol they would be potted.

Can Anyone please advise how many harness accidents over the years have been due to a driver who was influenced by alcohol?

 

I don't want to split hairs with you but would you confirm that in your opinion a low UDR = incompetence.

 

Would you classify any of the drivers below with low UDR's as incompetent?

 

Brian Zampese

John Versteeg

Kerry O'Reilly  ( won the 1984 Dominion Handicap with Basil Dean but has a poor UDR )

Michelle Wallis

Murray Rennie

Kerry Hadfield

John Hay

Roddy Curtin 

Derek Balle

Andrew Neal  ( won the Auckland Cup on Flight South in 2000 but has a poor UDR )

 

I think a fair percentage of drivers with low UDR's are trainers who concentrate on that side of the game and have other drivers steer their good horses. When they do drive it's often on a difficult or lesser horse very long on the tote. 

 

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32 minutes ago, JayTee2016 said:

 

I don't want to split hairs with you but would you confirm that in your opinion a low UDR = incompetence.

 

Would you classify any of the drivers below with low UDR's as incompetent?

 

Brian Zampese

John Versteeg

Kerry O'Reilly  ( won the 1984 Dominion Handicap with Basil Dean but has a poor UDR )

Michelle Wallis

Murray Rennie

Kerry Hadfield

John Hay

Roddy Curtin 

Derek Balle

Andrew Neal  ( won the Auckland Cup on Flight South in 2000 but has a poor UDR )

 

I think a fair percentage of drivers with low UDR's are trainers who concentrate on that side of the game and have other drivers steer their good horses. When they do drive it's often on a difficult or lesser horse very long on the tote. 

 

JayTee.

Off course I'm not going to name drivers that are incompetent or shouldn't be driving in betting races here for obvious reasons.

However, anyone that follows harness racing closely would be able to name drivers they think shouldn't be driving.

Yes there are some on your list that should be putting on a more professional driver if they want a better chance to win.

 

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2 hours ago, L@ngas said:

If you applied for your licence and got it within the guidelines requested Brodie than you are eligible to drive its as simple as that. Incompetence can come in many different varieties in this game and can many times be fuelled by punters frustrations. I don't have an answer for your problem as I believe its not one that can be solved over night. The issue at hand can't be either but the RIU publicly cleaning this Industry is a good thing. I hope he doesn't get to drive Conan Bridge just so that lessons are indeed learnt!

Kick a fellah when he is down?

Are you sure you don't want Bob flogged in front of the Addington grandstand on race night?

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Brodie It doesn't matter how many have been caused by Alcohol consumption. How do you know they have not been if they weren't testing back then, stop looking back at the past and focus on the future. Future says there is a rule and its up to the individual who is supposed to be a professional sportsman to know they are under that rule. Saying how was he supposed to know is a fucking cheap cop out! Its his livleyhood, why would you put that at risk. Don't break the rules Brodie its simple.

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I believe there is nothing really in this on a individual level, just like the Blair Orange case over New Year, but the credibility of Harness Racing is at stake if drivers continue to test positive (regardless of the reading and the level of impairment it has) 

Where are those dog lovers? Thought they would be flying into this. "What is the only thing worse than a cheat on a seat? A drunken cheat on a seat!"

We all think harness racing is a great game so we all have to respect it - The drivers need to front up and not let it happen again.

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