only in Aus

[von Smallhaussen 3,226]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/racing/76644265/27000-fraud-over-horse-that-never-existed

[Midget 4,489]

Is that one of the 90 horses ?

[zelda kratchanova 2 501]

what an idoits story n0?

boris says the owner should be thank full cos shes a long way ahead

[bestbets 206]

That trainer should never be allowed near a track again, should get a jail sentence. I use to love the harness industry but to many a time they pissed me off with there cheating that I have not had a bet or watched a trotting meeting since Auckland Reactor ran in the Interdoms some years ago now.

[Los Lobos 139]

The saying "Cheats Never Prosper" seems to be a lie on so many fronts. It seems that some new approach to cheating needs to be adopted because the present punishments are a total joke (if the punishment ever happens that is).  If there was more disclosure maybe cheats would think twice. It really makes one wonder if they want to be associated with this industry!

[Jefferson 207]

55 minutes ago, Los Lobos said:

The saying "Cheats Never Prosper" seems to be a lie on so many fronts. It seems that some new approach to cheating needs to be adopted because the present punishments are a total joke (if the punishment ever happens that is).  If there was more disclosure maybe cheats would think twice. It really makes one wonder if they want to be associated with this industry!

You can use cobalt in NZ, NZTR tell you your horse has it, but nothing happens. NZTR, just like the TAB, slow, fat and lazy!!

[Midget 4,489]

Just now, Jefferson said:

You can use cobalt in NZ, NZTR tell you your horse has it, but nothing happens. NZTR, just like the TAB, slow, fat and lazy!!

Why would you bother saying that when it's totally incorrect, and if you don't know you're talking shit you should get yourself up to speed because you're ignorant.

[Jefferson 207]

3 minutes ago, Midget said:

Why would you bother saying that when it's totally incorrect, and if you don't know you're talking shit you should get yourself up to speed because you're ignorant.

Ah did I miss the outcome and charges from the NZ Derby Sound Proposition positive test result? It was so long ago, I would have expected this would have already been dealt with, so obviously I missed it. No doubt you will be able to tell me.

[Midget 4,489]

21 minutes ago, Jefferson said:

Ah did I miss the outcome and charges from the NZ Derby Sound Proposition positive test result? It was so long ago, I would have expected this would have already been dealt with, so obviously I missed it. No doubt you will be able to tell me.

You're being a spanker and you know it.

Do some reading, the evolving situation has been well traversed here.

[Los Lobos 139]

Sorry Midget I agree with a lot of your posts but I also must have missed reports on the evolving situation also. Perhaps you could refresh my memory? Where is the inquiry at now? Are all horses racing in the correct ratings? Have there been some statements made that I have missed. I am an advocate for animal welfare and also a strong believer in transparency in all codes, and fairness for all so I follow this subject with interest. I hope you can enlighten me where I can do some reading that you refer to. Thanks

[Canelo 459]

Just a question in relation to cobalt administration; did the vets charge out the owners under another substance or do the trainers charge out vet fees as part of monthly invoice? You would think if the owners were being billed for high amounts of anything then questions would be asked. Obviously they were not aware of what was being undertaken or they would be charged also? do these owners have reason to sue the vet and or trainer for this?

[Midget 4,489]

14 minutes ago, Los Lobos said:

Sorry Midget I agree with a lot of your posts but I also must have missed reports on the evolving situation also. Perhaps you could refresh my memory? Where is the inquiry at now? Are all horses racing in the correct ratings? Have there been some statements made that I have missed. I am an advocate for animal welfare and also a strong believer in transparency in all codes, and fairness for all so I follow this subject with interest. I hope you can enlighten me where I can do some reading that you refer to. Thanks

I can't stop you being a tosser about this, but I can refer you to your "search" button.

 

[Los Lobos 139]

I fail to see how I am being a tosser, just wanting clarification. Maybe anyone that has a different perspective to you automatically places them in that basket. I actually thought you may have an intelligent reply but instead I got nasty. Interesting. Will my "search" button answer the questions I have posed. 

[sharrymac 7]

3 hours ago, Midget said:

Why would you bother saying that when it's totally incorrect, and if you don't know you're talking shit you should get yourself up to speed because you're ignorant.

I think that you  are the ignorant, why hasn't the O'Sullivan Scott partnership been charged yet?  

[Midget 4,489]

I think this site has actually been quite informative and educational as the likes of Leggy have explained the science behind this many times, and in doing so the "grey" areas where the various forms of cobalt overlap have become manifestly obvious.

We don't know what the Wexford team is claiming as a defense, and if it's claimed the elevated reasings are due to oral administration then yes, this should have been progressed a little quicker, however it's not that simple because if they're claiming it's contamination by VB12 injectables (for whatever reason) they may well have a sound and reasonable defense that requires considerable science to ascertain the veracity and plausibility of the defense claims, or to disprove the defense to the degree that the RIU can proceed with the charges with a reasonable chance of success.

This is not unprecedented, we've seen it before where charges have been laid, or positives advised by the laboratory, but the case has not gone to a formal hearing because the science is not crystal clear or the source of contamination is debatable.

I note the very same vultures who are screaming for blood now, because the RIU is allegedly taking their time and testing the science thoroughly, those same vultures will scream rort and conspiracy if Alan Galbraith QC gets Wexford off on a technicality, prosecution error, or disputed science.

Somehow I think the RIU and Wexford can't win here but don't you let the inconvenient truth stop you paranoid conspirators and nutters making all manner of hysterical or irrational accusations.

 

 

[Los Lobos 139]

As yet the Wexford Stables are claiming nothing and will continue to do so.Why would they even contemplate making any comment when they haven't been charged with anything. Here is my problem. I believe all the information points to it being almost impossible to return a positive even with vb12 as long as it is not administered on the day of racing. As the rules prohibit you from administering any substance on raceday I see this as no defense. In an article written by Barry Lichter on 28th June 2014 he states that Mike Godber stated the three horses involved had "significantly" breached the cobalt level of 200.  That levels in the hundreds almost certainly indicated administration of supplements. In fact a cobalt level of 530   would decrease to below 200 within 6 to 12 hours. So to be over this reading it must have been given on race day or have been higher than 530 to begin with. Now if we were informed  what the readings were, we might be able to make a better assessment of what we believe might be the truth. It is the lack of information that I find frustrating. I am neither a paranoid conspirator  or nutter, unless you believe anyone searching for the truth is one of these. I am neither hysterical or making accusations  but would think that you seem to be the one irritated to the point of being rude to anyone wanting this resolved. It seems that indeed you are the one refusing to acknowledge this matter needs resolving.  

[Midget 4,489]

I've been quite careful not to exclude the possibility of race day administration of a simple OTC product containing VB12, but I can't give an informed comment because I don't know the levels returned by the three horses so I don't know if that's a likely or possible scenario.

If a member of the Wexford staff was guilty of giving a shot of water soluble multivitamins race day then so be it, and there'll be an appropriate punishment for that, but that's a lifetime away from giving IV cobalt salts as a PED and there are scientific papers about that prove as much.

A lot of horses have historically been given multivitamin shots pre race ( on the day of the race ) to assist recovery over the years, and the truth is that no one really knew that bound cobalt as cyanocobolamin could give positives up to the 300+ level.

You seem to want to be a self appointed prosecutor so you'll know the pre race vitamin injections are de rigueur in many stables and always have been, even if that is a breach of the rules. Oral pastes pre race fall into the same category and to many members of staff using pre race med's like that was just good sound animal husbandry, even if it was a breach of the rules.

We've kind of found out by accident that such pre race injections would give cobalt positives, in exactly the same way we found the arsenic in Cao Iron Copper, or whatever that tonic was the gypsies were using a couple of years ago.

I understand the above doesn't fit your theories, and that the word 'cobalt' sounds fantastically alarmist if used in the same vein as EPO does ( no pun intended ), especially when you guys use it in the same sentence as Wexford, but the facts are that we have no facts available, so you're guessing and jumping to conclusions.

Why don't you just relax and let Alan Galbraith do his job, ditto the RIU vets and scientists, and plenty soon enough the truth will be revealed. 

As I've repeatedly said the defense of an elevated cobalt level from an oral supplement will fail because to the best of my knowledge it cannot scientifically happen, but the defense of ' a rogue member of staff gave the horses a pre race multi vitamin injection ' is both sound and plausible. 

I'm prepared to give the innocent until proven guilty parties the benefit of the doubt on that basis, clearly you're not, "and with that your Honour I rest my case".

 

 

 

[Gruff 2,790]

Theres more than a handful on this site that have the nous and most importantly the passion to implement the change necessary to keep our racing industry afloat,it seems most employed at the highest level are only in it for the money and plenty of it...its not about what this industry can do for you its what you can do for the industry 

[biff 2,158]

16 hours ago, Midget said:

I've been quite careful not to exclude the possibility of race day administration of a simple OTC product containing VB12, but I can't give an informed comment because I don't know the levels returned by the three horses so I don't know if that's a likely or possible scenario.

If a member of the Wexford staff was guilty of giving a shot of water soluble multivitamins race day then so be it, and there'll be an appropriate punishment for that, but that's a lifetime away from giving IV cobalt salts as a PED and there are scientific papers about that prove as much.

A lot of horses have historically been given multivitamin shots pre race ( on the day of the race ) to assist recovery over the years, and the truth is that no one really knew that bound cobalt as cyanocobolamin could give positives up to the 300+ level.

You seem to want to be a self appointed prosecutor so you'll know the pre race vitamin injections are de rigueur in many stables and always have been, even if that is a breach of the rules. Oral pastes pre race fall into the same category and to many members of staff using pre race med's like that was just good sound animal husbandry, even if it was a breach of the rules.

We've kind of found out by accident that such pre race injections would give cobalt positives, in exactly the same way we found the arsenic in Cao Iron Copper, or whatever that tonic was the gypsies were using a couple of years ago.

I understand the above doesn't fit your theories, and that the word 'cobalt' sounds fantastically alarmist if used in the same vein as EPO does ( no pun intended ), especially when you guys use it in the same sentence as Wexford, but the facts are that we have no facts available, so you're guessing and jumping to conclusions.

Why don't you just relax and let Alan Galbraith do his job, ditto the RIU vets and scientists, and plenty soon enough the truth will be revealed. 

As I've repeatedly said the defense of an elevated cobalt level from an oral supplement will fail because to the best of my knowledge it cannot scientifically happen, but the defense of ' a rogue member of staff gave the horses a pre race multi vitamin injection ' is both sound and plausible. 

I'm prepared to give the innocent until proven guilty parties the benefit of the doubt on that basis, clearly you're not, "and with that your Honour I rest my case".

 

 

 

Jesus Leo, reading sub text I'm wondering how the 'boss' won 11 premierships in VIC without all this help, I've been around a bit as you probably guessed, and needle trainers, going on your subjective's are alive and well........do horses nowadays need all this help? are they different from the horses we used to line up twice in one day? run say 1-9 in a hack 1 at midday and line up in the last and run 1-23 for a 1400 hack 1/2?  ....or am I a fossil? Aminolites and trace element supps maybe.

[Los Lobos 139]

Exactly Biff. And you just agreed with me Midget. IF YOU KNEW THE LEVELS YOU COULD COMMENT!!!  My sentiment exactly. Thanks for that