RaceCafe..#1...Tipsters Thread.... Share Your Fancies For Fun...Lets See Who The Best Tipsters Here Are.
chevy86

No surprise what happened!

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One idiot dragging as hard as he could on the long lead attached to the bit ring and 2 others shoving upwards under the rear! No wonder Sassy nSmart reacted by doing a back-flip. These gate attendants might be keen but at times you have to wonder at the technique compared to Oz, HK and Singapore.

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I did n't see this  incident but often thought it could be a good idea for the starter to

allow a stable rep (stablehand/trainer) who is familiar with a trouble some horse to

attend at the start.    While you would have to be careful how often it was allowed it may help

with a known troublesome barrier rouge.  Is such a dream feasible?

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3 minutes ago, ardeea said:

I did n't see this  incident but often thought it could be a good idea for the starter to

allow a stable rep (stablehand/trainer) who is familiar with a trouble some horse to

attend at the start.    While you would have to be careful how often it was allowed it may help

with a known troublesome barrier rouge.  Is such a dream feasible?

Yeah perhaps the Te Akau Stud sponsored stable attendant - great idea! Then perhaps a clerk of the course from the same stable, why not throw in a judge sponsored by the stable as well?

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18 minutes ago, JOJAN said:

Please Chevy 86 tell all the gate staff in NZ what should have happened.

Certainly not the aggressive attention to the head of the horse. Ever heard of "Action-Reaction" scenario? How about a few equestrian ladies helping at the start -they tend to have good rapport with most horses, rather than the heavy-handed approach. Just a thought.

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18 hours ago, chevy86 said:

Certainly not the aggressive attention to the head of the horse. Ever heard of "Action-Reaction" scenario? How about a few equestrian ladies helping at the start -they tend to have good rapport with most horses, rather than the heavy-handed approach. Just a thought.

Ya right are ya?

And how long do you reckon it would take to get fields loaded and races underway? And how do you think owners of well behaved and already loaded horses will be feeling while these 'equestrian ladies' bugger about trying to coax some mongrel into line?  Two hours later we will still be waiting.

Like a lot in the industry the starting gate attendants generally do a wonderful job in at times dangerous circumstances.  Well done guys the country over.

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somewhere in between the 2 extremes where the guy at the front is a bit more relaxed on the mouth, generally if you drag on a horses bit it will go backwards. pony club people would be there with a carrot trying to lure it in and would take 3 hours to load. they do it right but when the pressure goes on usually you get a bit more aggressive and sometimes get it wrong.

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Its called starting gate education, most trainers will spend time on the young ones, yes the odd one will slip threw, the stable in question had another one at the other meeting that had to be bulldozed in, I'm sure the horse trainer in that partnership will sort it out.

I could see chevys knitting club telling these starter assistants to say please young horse could you pop in there while we keep knitting peggy squares for Biafra. 

.

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Certain stables are notable for having bad barrier horses you can expect that when you see the colours appear at the barrier.Normally spoilt types that walk all over the trainer/handler and we get them on race day to further their education.Have you Chevy86 led one in and have it go mad while your on the ground in front of it in restricted quarters?. Not a nice place to be. Just as certain stables have well behaved and educated horses that walk in and stand in the barrier some stables don't. A lot of horses take the P_ ss and just need a flick with the buggy whip and walk straight in. It all comes down to education before race day. After all they have a barrier certificate from the stipes to say they are ok to be there don't they? We all do our best around at the gates and several of us have ended up in the ambulance at one time or another, it can be a dangerous and thankless job at times but we do it because we love it.

Edited by mr dickson cider
spelling

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6 minutes ago, mr dickson cider said:

Certain stables are notable for having bad barrier horses you can expect that when you see the colours appear at the barrier.Normally spoilt types that walk all over the trainer/handler and we get them on race day to further their education.Have you Chevy86 led one in and have it go mad while your on the ground in front of it in restricted quarters?. Not a nice place to be. Just as certain stables have well behaved and educated horses that walk in and stand in the barrier some stables don't. A lot of horses take the P_ ss and just need a flick with the buggy whip and walk straight in. It all comes down to education before race day. After all they have a barrier certificate from the stipes to say they are ok to be there don't they? We all do our best around at the gates and several of us have ended up in the ambulance at one time or another, it can be a dangerous and thankless job at times but we do it because we love it.

A good point about certain stables having more bad barrier horses per runners than other stables who have spent the time and effort educating horses. Could be time to fine stables whose statistics in this area are poor. The well mannered horses have to stand in the barriers for longer than they should have to.

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Shouldn't though a horse that holds up the start or ends up a late scratching be required to be first loaded for the next five or whatever starts?

That way they find out what other people have whose horses behave - what it is like to stand there waiting for others to be loaded.

The same with barrier blanket horses - no issue but we will load you first thanks

 

 

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Don't all Te Akau fillies have bad barrier manners ?

That filly in question has been wearing a barrier blanket in previous starts but had it removed yesterday.

At the last Riccarton Cup week they had four runners one day in black type races and three wore barrier blankets.

When Mark Walker trained here they all seemed to wear barrier blankets.

Maybe the stable needs some help with educating their horses.

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I started this topic after watching ONE incident. I did not intend for it to become yet another opportunity to have a crack at Te Akau, an organisation I have no connection to , nor wish to be an advocate for. The "pedigree" of the horse is irrelevant. I was merely alluding to the heavy-handed approach to dealing with the front end of the animal, which resulted in potential harm to the horse, jockey and rear attendants. Such an aggressive handling of a recalcitrant beast had the predictable outcome. If it does not load, scratch it, and further I would have NO barrier blankets allowed. 

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Not sure anyone is bashing Te Akau, these are just facts and anyone with a keen eye has seen this going on for a long time with that barn.

Sorry if that's an inconvenient truth.

BTW blankets shouldn't be banned as they have an important role to play with some horses, but those who wear them should be made to load first.

You'll almost certainly find their application will then be far more selective, if at all.

As for your stinging criticism of the barrier boys, well let's measure your value by that because you won't find a friend in racing with that attitude.

They do a marvelous job in difficult circumstances, they're under resourced and treated at best indifferently, but probably better described as badly. Instead of wasting money on overseas travel NZTR should apply more funding to the barrier boys, that's the truth and that's how you should look at it, or better still, get the barrier boys to do your job for a day, and you do theirs, then let's hear you criticise them.

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1 hour ago, chevy86 said:

I started this topic after watching ONE incident. I did not intend for it to become yet another opportunity to have a crack at Te Akau, an organisation I have no connection to , nor wish to be an advocate for. The "pedigree" of the horse is irrelevant. I was merely alluding to the heavy-handed approach to dealing with the front end of the animal, which resulted in potential harm to the horse, jockey and rear attendants. Such an aggressive handling of a recalcitrant beast had the predictable outcome. If it does not load, scratch it, and further I would have NO barrier blankets allowed. 

What are you talking about?  I saw the incident but the barrier attendants behaviour certainly didn't stand out for me.  No different to what they ever do but not too many nags rear straight over backwards like that.  I have no axe to grind with Te Akau either(as I have previously stated I have had a share in a horse with them and found them excellent) but with all due respect this was a case of a misbehaving horse not misbehaving barrier attendants.

I suspect the horse's name might be a clue as to it's attitude in this case

In my experience most of those 'equine ladies' you mentioned earlier are total know alls who deal with half bloody draught horses not hyped up racehorses and who have no idea(but endless opinions) on how racehorses should be treated or dealt with.

 

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Barrier blankets are a waste of time with the new Simtrak gates which are lined with marine carpet on the sides and back gates the horse does not come in contact with the metal any more unlike the caddy stye gates,Most time the blanket falls off as soon as the horse starts playing up which they do wether they have a blanket on or not.By loading the bad ones last it stops tying staff up with having a man up with them while all the rest are loaded, but on the other hand it is rewarding the horse for bad behaviour. Once again it comes down to why these bad mannered horse have barrier certificates.

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14 hours ago, TOM(the other Molloy) said:

Shouldn't though a horse that holds up the start or ends up a late scratching be required to be first loaded for the next five or whatever starts?

That way they find out what other people have whose horses behave - what it is like to stand there waiting for others to be loaded.

The same with barrier blanket horses - no issue but we will load you first thanks

 

 

Yes Tom we normally load a horse first if it's held us up at previous starts. If it has been really bad we will start at the 2 minute call or before to make sure we get away on time.If the trainer does not like the thought of standing in the gates that long then it is up to him/her to educate it better.

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5 minutes ago, mr dickson cider said:

Barrier blankets are a waste of time with the new Simtrak gates which are lined with marine carpet on the sides and back gates the horse does not come in contact with the metal any more unlike the caddy stye gates,Most time the blanket falls off as soon as the horse starts playing up which they do wether they have a blanket on or not.By loading the bad ones last it stops tying staff up with having a man up with them while all the rest are loaded, but on the other hand it is rewarding the horse for bad behaviour. Once again it comes down to why these bad mannered horse have barrier certificates.

I quite agree. I think they should make barrier blankets almost redundant. If required in exceptional circumstances, then those horses should still line up in their usual order and shouldn't have barrier certificates until they can do that sensibly.

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