Black Kirrama 1,513 Report post Posted January 23, 2016 For those of us who supported the idea of Sunday racing, way back in the late 70's, DJ was a strong opponent. It was a day for families and worship. He said. Tomorrow, Wexford's, Glass Slipper, races for $600k or so, to the winner. On a Sunday. With the unresolved 2015 Derby, Sound Proposition's 3rd place issues and the pending decisions re that positive to a banned drug,surely DJ and Wexford welcome the advent of Sunday Racing. A winning Trainers' percentage would cover some of their frivolous appeal costs against the inevitable decision. There has never been a more protracted ( Time wise ) case in NZ , HK, Singapore, France involving a positive. The Horse, Sound Proposition, should have been immediately disqualified. Period. The issues involving how he got to that level of unacceptable cobalt /other drug levels should have been sorted before now, as a separate issue. Jefferson, Los Lobos, aquaman and 4 others 7 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gubellini 3,993 Report post Posted January 23, 2016 Totally on the same wavelength as you B K on the Wexford issue. There will be ongoing appeals after the cases are heard and the whole thing will probably still be on going at the end of this year. I dub it Lisa Cropp case Mark 2. Wexford have very heavy hitters in the legal world in their ownership ranks. Jefferson 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gubellini 3,993 Report post Posted January 23, 2016 By not disqualifying Sound Proposition immediately after his Cobalt positive the RIU has undermined the integrity of our handicapping system. Sound Proposition is going around as a Ratings 81 horse when in fact he is a Ratings 68 horse. biff, Ashoka and ivanthegreat 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gubellini 3,993 Report post Posted January 23, 2016 Joke No. 1. What will Lance and Andrew be doing at the conclusion of their Cobalt cases? A. Training horses. Joke No. 2. What will the RIU be doing at the conclusion of the Wexford case? A. Pursuing smaller trainers with all the vigour they can muster on positive lithium returns. Fartoomuch, Huey and Grant R 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Los Lobos 139 Report post Posted January 23, 2016 Maybe the IRU are afraid to enter the ring with heavyweights? I think there are two issues here. 1) Horses racing with an advantage. 2) A stable with unanswered questions as to how these horses were presented in such a manner. For the sake of other trainers, owners etc. the first could be sorted instantly while the second was being investigated. The ruling needs to be changed so that:- 1) A horse with a positive reading (no matter why) is instantly disqualified. That way none of the ratings would be wrong. The horses who rightly move up a step would also get the right ratings (and prize money). 2) The stable with the positive should be banned from racing any horse until the the RIU have completed its investigation. This would do 2 things. It would be advantageous for the stable concerned to stop any delaying tactics and there would be pressure for the RIU to conclude investigations in a timely manner. As it is its a joke. No matter what the racing fraternity thinks the RIU remain tight lipped as to when, how, etc this will be concluded. I understand they want to get it right but come on its becoming a joke now. Surely if a party was innocent they would be proclaiming this innocence not ignoring it hoping it will go away. Huey 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midget 4,489 Report post Posted January 23, 2016 Innocent until proven guilty chaps. Be fair. This subject has been traversed many times before on here, and there's no need to go over it again other than to say that this is new science and in the interests of all parties the matter should only proceed to a hearing once all the possible causes, scenarios and consequences have been tested scientifically. talk, Chestnut, richie and 1 other 4 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornelius 94 Report post Posted January 23, 2016 Well said Midget. and Black Kirrama: Its KARAKA MILLION!!! A different Sale company! NZB! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trump 2,741 Report post Posted January 23, 2016 The Lidari case with The Moody stable was a follow on from a race in October 2014, when Lidari ran 2nd in the Turnbull Stakes and a subsequent swab showed a Cobalt reading of 300micrograms/Litre v the 200 Threshhold. It still hasn't been resolved but will be soon. So, I guess the case involving Sound Proposition is not unusually long and therefore, any comment re the case should, in my opinion, be withheld until the result of this case is announced. The Moody case has thrown up some irregularities that have extended the inquiry time so it's quite possible that the SP case also is complex. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GONSTA 1,148 Report post Posted January 23, 2016 4 minutes ago, Trump said: The Lidari case with The Moody stable was a follow on from a race in October 2014, when Lidari ran 2nd in the Turnbull Stakes and a subsequent swab showed a Cobalt reading of 300micrograms/Litre v the 200 Threshhold. It still hasn't been resolved but will be soon. So, I guess the case involving Sound Proposition is not unusually long and therefore, any comment re the case should, in my opinion, be withheld until the result of this case is announced. The Moody case has thrown up some irregularities that have extended the inquiry time so it's quite possible that the SP case also is complex. Might want to check the actual cobalt reading from Lidari. Seems to be a small portion of people that have been brainwashed by a particular midget claiming moody was 'just over' the limit Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggy 4,076 Report post Posted January 23, 2016 The readings were 380 and 410, about double the limit. Also Trump, charges were issued July last year in that case with the investigation complete about 9 months after the race concerned. The NZ cases have now gone well beyond that. Los Lobos and Jefferson 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
biff 2,158 Report post Posted January 24, 2016 My problem with Moody is very simple, he seems to have no handle on what horse was given what. Now I spent 4 years in the stables Moody now occupies, so very few would know the lay of the land like I........it's ever so simple for the 'boss' to wander around and look at all the horses at feed-up, the lovely old homestead next to the stables is 20 metres away and Angus Armanasco's old Californian bungalow 15 metres away........don't know which abode Moody hangs his hat, but for someone with all his success he seems divorced from any knowledge. Gus would be ashamed the place has come to this. napier, Los Lobos and GONSTA 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GONSTA 1,148 Report post Posted January 24, 2016 3 minutes ago, biff said: My problem with Moody is very simple, he seems to have no handle on what horse was given what. Now I spent 4 years in the stables Moody now occupies, so very few would know the lay of the land like I........it's ever so simple for the 'boss' to wander around and look at all the horses at feed-up, the lovely old homestead next to the stables is 20 metres away and Angus Armanasco's old Californian bungalow 15 metres away........don't know which abode Moody hangs his hat, but for someone with all his success he seems divorced from any knowledge. Gus would be ashamed the place has come to this. So true... Along with the OBVIOUSLY made up story of his staff member giving him 7x the amount of hoof powder they were supposed to, and this story took how long to come out after everything's that happened?? Along with him trying to claim he had never heard of cobalt... LMAO!!! The rumours had been doing the rounds WELL before these positive swabs... I was well aware it was being used by certain people before the start of 2014... Cmon Moody, we aren't that stupid buddy. biff, Los Lobos and Jefferson 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huey 2,037 Report post Posted January 24, 2016 18 minutes ago, Leggy said: The readings were 380 and 410, about double the limit. Also Trump, charges were issued July last year in that case with the investigation complete about 9 months after the race concerned. The NZ cases have now gone well beyond that. Any idea of the readings in the NZ cases? I thought Shaun Ritchie had a good idea a while back on Weigh In about publishing the results for all to see like they do the TC02 results. You'd perhaps think with a suggestion like that there is more to it than meets the eye. GONSTA, Ashoka, Jefferson and 1 other 4 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
biff 2,158 Report post Posted January 24, 2016 Unless someone has something to hide..........Shaun's on the button, transparency for all. Los Lobos, GONSTA, dock leaf and 4 others 7 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trump 2,741 Report post Posted January 24, 2016 The reading was 380. I think the 410 reading was from the same sample - against the rules apparently. That's why the case is going so long. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotch Thistle 133 Report post Posted January 24, 2016 I see that the O'Sullivan/Scott stable is 27th on the trainers' list for races won so far this season, with 1 winner for every 15.78 starters. Last season the stable finished 6th with a winner every 6.43 starters. The season before that they finished 15th with a winner every 7.03 starters. If they don't up their current winners to starters performance they'll be out of business before their 3 cobalt cases are resolved. Jefferson and Los Lobos 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huey 2,037 Report post Posted January 24, 2016 2 minutes ago, Scotch Thistle said: I see that the O'Sullivan/Scott stable is 27th on the trainers' list for races won so far this season, with 1 winner for every 15.78 starters. Last season the stable finished 6th with a winner every 6.43 starters. The season before that they finished 15th with a winner every 7.03 starters. If they don't up their current winners to starters performance they'll be out of business before their 3 cobalt cases are resolved. I doubt that, stables go in cycles, even the really big ones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chestnut 3,151 Report post Posted January 24, 2016 I think they do. definitely go in seasonal cycles... you can have good yearlings that turn into beaut two year olds.. you can have good yearlings that take a while to mature.. we see it all the time.. stables suddenly becoming known for producing ready to runs or really good three year olds.. I've seen it happen in the Logan stable, Baker/Forsman stable, and it happens a lot down south where many of the runners are soft track specialists that mature late and then the next year we get the crap reporting that well I was expecting more from this horse due to their stable being a specialist.... after one season Racing is a funny world, that the rest of New Zealand knows little about and often the people involved in it know less because they listen too much to stable gossip and people that they "think" are in the know ... so I think it's best to wait to see what comes out in the overly long awaited wash and just focus on racing now, it needs everyone's attention talk 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chestnut 3,151 Report post Posted January 24, 2016 9 hours ago, Huey said: Any idea of the readings in the NZ cases? I thought Shaun Ritchie had a good idea a while back on Weigh In about publishing the results for all to see like they do the TC02 results. You'd perhaps think with a suggestion like that there is more to it than meets the eye. I agree H, I think transparency is the best way to go for everything. That prevents the gossip and the folk that pretend they know all and hint at things and say they can't say anymore.. I'm not a fan of those people because they cause gossip.. if you know something, put your name to it.. or don't say anything and wait for the process as it is, until someone stands up and says let's change the process!... which would be nice Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jefferson 207 Report post Posted January 24, 2016 On 23/01/2016 at 1:20 AM, hesi said: They need to also tighten up the rule, that allows a horse under investigation to still race. Cropp took advantage of the same situation with regard to jockeys, and they specifically amended the rule because of this He shouldn't be able to race under the same stable umbrella, however the owner shouldn't be totally penalised, so if he changes stable he can continue racing. Reading the articles on cobolt to get levels over that allowed, it has to enter the body within a fairly short period of time before race day, I find it very hard to accept accidents or lack of knowledge. Have there been many charges laid for cobolt in races outside black type races?.....funny that!! Los Lobos 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midget 4,489 Report post Posted January 24, 2016 Get up to speed guys. That horse has left Moods and is at Darren Weirs now......oh the irony.....in the chamber you go my son......... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
what a post 811 Report post Posted January 25, 2016 Midget, Do you know if there are any nz stables with those chambers. Do you have enough under the bed to buy one? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midget 4,489 Report post Posted January 25, 2016 10 minutes ago, what a post said: Midget, Do you know if there are any nz stables with those chambers. Do you have enough under the bed to buy one? None have them, they're too expensive and I doubt NZ trainers are focused enough to embrace that technology, well maybe Robert Dunn would be but he's the exception. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooby3051 10,865 Report post Posted January 25, 2016 Guys this will all pan out in time..... let justice run its course THEN if you are not happy with the decision then have your say...Cheers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jefferson 207 Report post Posted January 26, 2016 On 24/01/2016 at 0:13 PM, Midget said: Get up to speed guys. That horse has left Moods and is at Darren Weirs now......oh the irony.....in the chamber you go my son......... Sound Proposition could do well under Weir's care as well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
