Big owners who've walked away ....

[crustyngrizzly 1,700]

Question.How many of our current big trainers,that prepare teams from Matamata,Cambridge and Pukekohe actually own the land they train on or are they all leased off the clubs.There is a huge cost for owners just there.Years ago most trainers owned their land but i think now racing is not an economic use of the land.

[Los Lobos 139]

The problem as I see it is that trainers fall into one of two categories and few are sustainable any longer. 

1) The public trainer who is reliant on outside owners that  are in it to enjoy but there is little enjoyment for them  pouring good money after bad and they are becoming fewer and fewer.

2)  The owner trainer is in it as he has a passion for horses and/or racing. Unfortunately most are not in the financial position to  continue for long when costs have soared and returns are so poor that it is purely their passion that keeps them going until they cannot  live with a depleted bank account and living standards that  have become below acceptable.  

The problem is that only those that have been in the game for years have any likelihood of attracting owners and so no one new and with enthusiasm for the game  has a show of surviving and they fall by the wayside pretty quick. I think this is sad because many young potentially good trainers have been/and will be  lost before they have had a shot and the time will come when there is a massive gap that cannot be filled. The good old trainers were young once and once they have gone what then. I see the large well established stables getting larger and the small yet equally talented owner/trainers are being lost.

[Trump 2,741]

In any well run company, if revenue is not "genuinely" growing at a rate sufficient enough to not only sustain the business but to encourage participation, then the very very first priority is to cut costs accordingly. Now, in the case of NZR, if I was the Chairman , I would issue one simple instruction. Mr CEO, you have 2 weeks to report back to me with a detailed plan to reduce total expenses by 20%. Not, 15 or 19, a total of 20%. The $ saved by this measure could be applied to lift the minimum stakes in the lower rating races. It is difficult but not impossible to do this - I know from personal experience. Each Department Head should be given the task by the CEO to reduce costs in their respective areas by 20%. If they can't do this then the first person to be retired would be the CEO. The problem I see is that the current Board has not done this in answer to the dire revenue situation they are in. At the start of the GFC I gave an order to cut 15% out of a company's Total Expenses. Despite all the doom and gloom and can't be done cries of some, it was achieved and the business not only survived but thrived. All it needs is a bit of willpower and genuine drive. The exodus of owners and trainers out of NZ will continue. There's a race meeting at Ipswich in Qld the wed and I see the minimum race stakes are $20,000, giving $12,000 to the winner. That's 4 months training fees. How can NZ racing survive with midweek $7k races? It can't.

[Jefferson 207]

23 minutes ago, Trump said:

In any well run company, if revenue is not "genuinely" growing at a rate sufficient enough to not only sustain the business but to encourage participation, then the very very first priority is to cut costs accordingly. Now, in the case of NZR, if I was the Chairman , I would issue one simple instruction. Mr CEO, you have 2 weeks to report back to me with a detailed plan to reduce total expenses by 20%. Not, 15 or 19, a total of 20%. The $ saved by this measure could be applied to lift the minimum stakes in the lower rating races. It is difficult but not impossible to do this - I know from personal experience. Each Department Head should be given the task by the CEO to reduce costs in their respective areas by 20%. If they can't do this then the first person to be retired would be the CEO. The problem I see is that the current Board has not done this in answer to the dire revenue situation they are in. At the start of the GFC I gave an order to cut 15% out of a company's Total Expenses. Despite all the doom and gloom and can't be done cries of some, it was achieved and the business not only survived but thrived. All it needs is a bit of willpower and genuine drive. The exodus of owners and trainers out of NZ will continue. There's a race meeting at Ipswich in Qld the wed and I see the minimum race stakes are $20,000, giving $12,000 to the winner. That's 4 months training fees. How can NZ racing survive with midweek $7k races? It can't.

I agree with your premise, if you can't increase revenue then reduce costs. We are then at a cross roads, you say put that money into maidens, I say into black type races. You will have your supporters, I will have mine. Firstly they have to create this money.

[Jefferson 207]

On 9/01/2016, 7:28:30, Midget said:

In the last five years, I can think of plenty who've turned their backs totally or reduced their racing stock to a shadow of what it was.

1. Ray Coupland 

2. Terry Jarvis

3. Alistair Sutherland

4. Guy Sargent

5. Gerard Peterson

Feel free to add others and ask yourself why all these great owners are deserting the sinking ship that is NZ racing.

Don't forget the big owners that have joined, like the China Horse Club. Some off your list are getting older (like all of us) and they may get to a point where they are tired of travelling around watching their horses.

[Los Lobos 139]

34 minutes ago, Trump said:

In any well run company, if revenue is not "genuinely" growing at a rate sufficient enough to not only sustain the business but to encourage participation, then the very very first priority is to cut costs accordingly. Now, in the case of NZR, if I was the Chairman , I would issue one simple instruction. Mr CEO, you have 2 weeks to report back to me with a detailed plan to reduce total expenses by 20%. Not, 15 or 19, a total of 20%. The $ saved by this measure could be applied to lift the minimum stakes in the lower rating races. It is difficult but not impossible to do this - I know from personal experience. Each Department Head should be given the task by the CEO to reduce costs in their respective areas by 20%. If they can't do this then the first person to be retired would be the CEO. The problem I see is that the current Board has not done this in answer to the dire revenue situation they are in. At the start of the GFC I gave an order to cut 15% out of a company's Total Expenses. Despite all the doom and gloom and can't be done cries of some, it was achieved and the business not only survived but thrived. All it needs is a bit of willpower and genuine drive. The exodus of owners and trainers out of NZ will continue. There's a race meeting at Ipswich in Qld the wed and I see the minimum race stakes are $20,000, giving $12,000 to the winner. That's 4 months training fees. How can NZ racing survive with midweek $7k races? It can't.

 

[Los Lobos 139]

Trump you've got it in one.

[Los Lobos 139]

Someone I know suggested that all those in the industry not earning the minimum wage (most small trainers) should line up outside WINZ and then apply for the benefit. There would be plenty qualify!

[porky 900]

Is it any wonder owners have become un-interested...

(Petone and other admin salaries rise,Farriers,Vets,feed suppliers,carriers,floats,breeding/service and training fees increase).

The poor owner is asked to lump the bill...YEAH RIGHT.

 

[Trump 2,741]

Not just maidens Jefferson. Class 1,2 and so on. The current level of horses racing at Group Level are racing for a good share of the prizemoney, especially given the ratings of many of the horses competing, which are really really low when compared to Aust Group races. There needs to be a dramatic lifting of the stakes in maiden and lower class races, the area in which the "majority" of racehorse owners are competing. If this doesn't happen then NZ will continue on it's way to being a breeding and selling jurisdiction - which it probably is today! Then there's the betting side of the business.....The be all and end all of racing health. Any top class horses are probably going to race for the bigger purses in Oz (eg Turn Me Loose), so I think for NZ the current stakes in Group races is about right - for the moment. It's the lower end that needs a big lift and any smoke and mirror moves, like reducing race numbers and redistributing prizemoney, won't fix the problem.

[Michael Roustoby 292]

20 hours ago, chevy86 said:

Obviously highly likely someone will take over Lance Noble's stables--whether it is new blood or re-location will be interesting. Who now occupies Sargent and Shailer stables?

I've heard that Dale and Katie Bussey are relocating from Te Awamutu to take over the boxes left by Lance Noble.

[crustyngrizzly 1,700]

12 minutes ago, Michael Roustoby said:

I've heard that Dale and Katie Bussey are relocating from Te Awamutu to take over the boxes left by Lance Noble.

Do they prepare horses for the overseas market,because they don't appear to train many winners from Te Awamutu.Didn't they take over Richard Otto's barn at T/A,25 boxes plus but not many winners.

[departed 155]

Monday racemeeting at Benalla in Victoria.  Maidens racing for $20,000.  10th place gets $500.  No costs to race, just have to get your horse there.  And you wonder why people don't want to race horses in NZ?

[Insider 3,954]

I am not sticking up for the way our racing is run, far from it. 

I have been in the game a very long time and I have always seen the big / large owners come and go.

When I first started I was told: "If you want to make a small fortune in the game, start with a large one".

Actually to still be in it, is a minor miracle and it's probably because I haven't been a "big" investor, just a small consistent one.

 

[Midget 4,489]

2 hours ago, Jefferson said:

Don't forget the big owners that have joined, like the China Horse Club. Some off your list are getting older (like all of us) and they may get to a point where they are tired of travelling around watching their horses.

Yes that's true, but China Horse Club is actually busy acquiring stock to set up in competition to us, back home in Mongolia.

Their business is of course appreciated, but it's unlikely to indicate any resurgence and nor is it likely to last.

I'm pretty sure we're actually seeing a net decline in "big owners", all in the last five years.

I'm also convinced that the average rating in top end black type races is dropping.

I'm also convinced that we have far fewer older males racing in the 85+ grades, particularly but not limited to stayers.

I know for a fact we've had no significant growth in horse betting revenue.

I know the gullible have been deceived with regard to income streams and how NZRB distributions are being sustained.

Based on all of the above I hear alarm bells ringing loudly, and I don't normally say this, " but I told you so ", and so did other Cafe commentators.

 

[Trump 2,741]

If I had 10 Employees each on $100k salaries and I needed to invest $100k into my business but didn't have it, then I would march my ten in and say, here are the choices. 1. I need $100k, so one of you will be made redundant and the workload will be spread. Or, 2, I need $100k so I'm going to keep you all on employment but at $90k pa per head. Or 3, we fold the business and you are all out of business. You have 30 min to decide your preferred option - a majority vote will suffice. 

[Leggy 4,077]

I'd vote for 1, as long as it's not me and I'd suggest you make 2 redundant and give the rest of us a 10% raise to makeup for the extra workload which we'll now be providing at half price rather than free.

[kilcoyne 196]

No 1 will cost you in redundancy pay, No 2 would bring unjustified disadvantage claims x 10. No 3 last choice so take the money saved and set up overseas in some tropical tax haven.

[Jefferson 207]

2 hours ago, Insider said:

I am not sticking up for the way our racing is run, far from it. 

I have been in the game a very long time and I have always seen the big / large owners come and go.

When I first started I was told: "If you want to make a small fortune in the game, start with a large one".

Actually to still be in it, is a minor miracle and it's probably because I haven't been a "big" investor, just a small consistent one.

 

Well said and we are still racing aren't we. And in a couple of weeks buyers, trainers, bloodstock agents, China Horse Club and others will be madly scrapping over 1,300 odd horses, some going overseas, some staying here and yes the ones here will race for $7k, hoping they have bought one of those that will get to the top. Sure Ray, Terry, Alistair, Guy and Gerard may not be there, but the horses will still be sold......and for more than 12 months ago. 

[Trump 2,741]

It was an example of hypothetical situation Kilcoyne. The thing is, NZ Racing is in dire need of additional revenue. It can only come from either an increase in return thru the uncompetitive TAB or thru Corporate levies on race field access. Neither are likely to happen due to NZ's small population, so cutting costs is an imperative. Start with 15% reduction. It can be done. It just requires a Direct Order from the Board. 

[rdytdy 5,341]

5 hours ago, Michael Roustoby said:

I've heard that Dale and Katie Bussey are relocating from Te Awamutu to take over the boxes left by Lance Noble.

You have heard wrong Michael.

Try Wexford Stables (O'Sullivans) 

[JOJAN 29]

Jefferson you are so right, most of the yearlings will be knocked down to the odd false bid by Joe Walls and Kneebone, the winker will be there with a flush on, trainers will be hiding down the alleys with their very large dark glasses on, studmasters sorting out a horse to be sold to a unsuspecting punter at a overrated price so the figures look good, but we go back every year looking for that horse that nobody else has seen to pinhook onto a large syndicate in a foreign country, then we get it home and after a month the horse looks like a drug addict that is coming off a good night, take the shoes off and find it has bad seedy toe, its a great game if you don't weaken, a great way to fill in the day.

[Sickopunter 403]

8 hours ago, crustyngrizzly said:

Do they prepare horses for the overseas market,because they don't appear to train many winners from Te Awamutu.Didn't they take over Richard Otto's barn at T/A,25 boxes plus but not many winners.

Yes.

[Sickopunter 403]

3 hours ago, Jefferson said:

Well said and we are still racing aren't we. And in a couple of weeks buyers, trainers, bloodstock agents, China Horse Club and others will be madly scrapping over 1,300 odd horses, some going overseas, some staying here and yes the ones here will race for $7k, hoping they have bought one of those that will get to the top. Sure Ray, Terry, Alistair, Guy and Gerard may not be there, but the horses will still be sold......and for more than 12 months ago. 

Yeah they will be sold. But a higher percentage every year will be to overseas. I don''t think people here are talking about problems in the breeding industry, or in overseas industries. Just the racing one here.

[chevy86 2,704]

Always enjoy the atmosphere of the Sales, if not the ethics. For example--all the Lots that are "run-up" to just shy of their reserve by dummy bidding ( who would know if there was even a single genuine bid to reflect the true "market" value), all the Lots that boost the average of a particular stallion and then we find the Vendor still owns the horse and syndicates it with several of the usual Karaka "players", Lots that are never truly for sale but are just there to boost averages or qualify for race eligibility . But I will be back again this year to admire the horseflesh, the hard work of the attendants, the wonderful ambience of the venue, the big owners and the theatre of the occasion.