Please Expalin

[TOM(the other Molloy) 1,774]

44 minutes ago, Midget said:

Paddy,i am very happy for the club to have had good turnover and hopefully the club will continue.

I was seriously thinking of bringing a couple down,but the thought of Karen talking horses for some 2 days whilst traveling,convinced me that a trip to Ruakaka was achievable,as it is under 3 hours traveling time and i could just blast the one day cricket commentary on the radio,but she still lean over and turn that down,but i just kept the finger on the volume control on the steering wheel and the next time i looked across she was asleep.

I did watch the races on Trackside and the track looked in great order and the times being run reflected this.I must add i thought some of the riding was average at best and whilst it is a tight track,i couldn't believe how they were cutting each other throats trying to get the lead,but every rider and horse get around safely.

As an aside Paddy' did the Stewards use the towers that had to be upgraded under Cambell Moncur's instructions at 10's of thousand of the club resources or did they not use them like in the previous meetings and be a complete waste of money??? 

Needless to say no they didn't Morty.

The track was in good nick as reflected in the times. The senior jockeys seemed happy enough though David Walsh had his usual demand or two.  As for the riding standard well that comes down to the quality of our NZ product of course but nobody crashed and Reefton considering it's size has always been a very safe track.

[rdytdy 5,343]

39 minutes ago, Huey said:

I thought the industry days still paid the 17% commission for on course turnover?

No Huey. Nothing, zip, nada, diddly squat since 1/8/2015. Set funding for industry days since then. I'm picking that Tom's club would have been better off under the old model yesterday. 

[Insider 3,961]

39 minutes ago, rdytdy said:

No Huey. Nothing, zip, nada, diddly squat since 1/8/2015. Set funding for industry days since then. I'm picking that Tom's club would have been better off under the old model yesterday. 

I think that all clubs would have been better under the old system.

The new one is so complicated that no one will know where they really stand until the season ends. 

I am picking that it was designed to take money away from the clubs and put it in the hands of the NZTR to make them look good!

Otherwise, why would they have changed it and implemented such a complicated formula(s)?

[TOM(the other Molloy) 1,774]

3 hours ago, rdytdy said:

Tom, being an industry day you wouldn't have got any commission on your $81k on-course turnover this year, instead receiving a fixed amount from NZTR. What difference has this made on the day to the club's profitability?    

It is a mix Ted and to be fair perfectly adequate for us to run the 'industry' day type meet we do. I think it is around $80k basic plus 7% of on course whereas previously I think about $70k plus 17% so not a terrible lot of difference. Essentially they fund the stakes and the club pays the cost of running the day $25k or so for a day like yesterday.

As we all know the base amount needs to lift to increase the returns to the stakeholders.

This issue with a lack of enthusiasm is as prevalent at the big clubs as the small to be fair. People tire of the external directives emanating out of Wellington demanding more and more and more.

I sense general sympathy for our position on Cafe but will guarantee they are licking their lips in Wellington and Parnell thinking they will (1) have a day they can remove from the calendar if we fold and (2) will be able to grab our assets if we close down.  The latter is not going to happen as we need to protect the interests of our sister club the Reefton Trotting Club who will obviously race on. And our Constitution dictates the assets go to the community.  The people of Reefton own that course not the RJC or RTC( and certainly not NZTR or the NZRB!)

[TOM(the other Molloy) 1,774]

8.5% of on course I am now advised

[We're Doomed 4,868]

39 minutes ago, TOM(the other Molloy) said:

It is a mix Ted and to be fair perfectly adequate for us to run the 'industry' day type meet we do. I think it is around $80k basic plus 7% of on course whereas previously I think about $70k plus 17% so not a terrible lot of difference. Essentially they fund the stakes and the club pays the cost of running the day $25k or so for a day like yesterday.

As we all know the base amount needs to lift to increase the returns to the stakeholders.

This issue with a lack of enthusiasm is as prevalent at the big clubs as the small to be fair. People tire of the external directives emanating out of Wellington demanding more and more and more.

I sense general sympathy for our position on Cafe but will guarantee they are licking their lips in Wellington and Parnell thinking they will (1) have a day they can remove from the calendar if we fold and (2) will be able to grab our assets if we close down.  The latter is not going to happen as we need to protect the interests of our sister club the Reefton Trotting Club who will obviously race on. And our Constitution dictates the assets go to the community.  The people of Reefton own that course not the RJC or RTC( and certainly not NZTR or the NZRB!)

I do suspect the current plan is to make it so hard for certain clubs that some of them go to the wall, without it appearing that they have been forcibly closed down.

[rdytdy 5,343]

35 minutes ago, TOM(the other Molloy) said:

8.5% of on course I am now advised

It can't have been classed an industry day then Tom. Your meeting would have been classified an "Event Day" which some meetings are rated over the holiday period hence receiving the 8.5% on oncourse turnover. 

Clubs with straight out industry days get NOTHING on turnover. 

Hence if you have a good day with a healthy turnover the club will be the loser but a poor days' turnover will see them better off. Hardly a good incentive to get people on course and punting on those days. . 

[Midget 4,489]

1 hour ago, Insider said:

I think that all clubs would have been better under the old system.

The new one is so complicated that no one will know where they really stand until the season ends. 

I am picking that it was designed to take money away from the clubs and put it in the hands of the NZTR to make them look good!

Otherwise, why would they have changed it and implemented such a complicated formula(s)?

Just as the 13 million that used to go to pokie trusts, and then get distributed to clubs for infrastructural work and asset purchases ( starting gates etc ) has now been redirected into the NZRB coffers by virtue of their C4 gaming licence.

That does two things.

1. It means clubs no longer have access to pokie grants so you inevitably get infrastructural degradation and failure, eventually leading to a slide into oblivion and the demise of smaller clubs without collateral funding options.

2. It allows the deceitful cretins at the NZRB (and the codes) to appear to be increasing turnover and distributions, when in fact there's no credible significant racehorse betting growth but they're actually just robbing Peter to pay Paul using pokie income. I would imagine that'll in turn make the CV's of the architects of this illusion look better because they 'increased stakes between the years...'.

Thats the truth Glenda, even though you hate being told as much, your organization is sucking on the tit of the poor and vulnerable members of society, the addicted, the disadvantaged and those consumed by hopelessness.

That'd look good on your CV if you had the guts to be truthful about it wouldn't it now ?.

[TOM(the other Molloy) 1,774]

1 hour ago, rdytdy said:

It can't have been classed an industry day then Tom. Your meeting would have been classified an "Event Day" which some meetings are rated over the holiday period hence receiving the 8.5% on oncourse turnover. 

Clubs with straight out industry days get NOTHING on turnover. 

Hence if you have a good day with a healthy turnover the club will be the loser but a poor days' turnover will see them better off. Hardly a good incentive to get people on course and punting on those days. . 

Sorry Ted you are right of course.  The reason I originally mentioned industry days is that it is funded like industry days used to be. I think because we are a one day club you get a slightly better deal through those event days ( if that is what they are called)

I am well out of the loop compared to my old secretarial days so was not aware of the terminology  sorry.

[TOM(the other Molloy) 1,774]

1 hour ago, Midget said:

Just as the 13 million that used to go to pokie trusts, and then get distributed to clubs for infrastructural work and asset purchases ( starting gates etc ) has now been redirected into the NZRB coffers by virtue of their C4 gaming licence.

That does two things.

1. It means clubs no longer have access to pokie grants so you inevitably get infrastructural degradation and failure, eventually leading to a slide into oblivion and the demise of smaller clubs without collateral funding options.

2. It allows the deceitful cretins at the NZRB (and the codes) to appear to be increasing turnover and distributions, when in fact there's no credible significant racehorse betting growth but they're actually just robbing Peter to pay Paul using pokie income. I would imagine that'll in turn make the CV's of the architects of this illusion look better because they 'increased stakes between the years...'.

Thats the truth Glenda, even though you hate being told as much, your organization is sucking on the tit of the poor and vulnerable members of society, the addicted, the disadvantaged and those consumed by hopelessness.

That'd look good on your CV if you had the guts to be truthful about it wouldn't it now ?.

Yes and from what I hear they are not above some devious tactics to obtain new pokie sites either.

Not much point in talking to Glenda though.  I doubt she would know which end of a horse you poke the tucker into. She got the job  through being a National Party lackey didn't she?

I suspect that you could write everything Glenda, her CEO and her Minister combined knows about racing on the inside of a very small matchbox with a very large crayon.

[Huey 2,037]

3 hours ago, Insider said:

I think that all clubs would have been better under the old system.

The new one is so complicated that no one will know where they really stand until the season ends. 

I am picking that it was designed to take money away from the clubs and put it in the hands of the NZTR to make them look good!

Otherwise, why would they have changed it and implemented such a complicated formula(s)?

What's the formula and where do you find it?

[rdytdy 5,343]

1 hour ago, TOM(the other Molloy) said:

Sorry Ted you are right of course.  The reason I originally mentioned industry days is that it is funded like industry days used to be. I think because we are a one day club you get a slightly better deal through those event days ( if that is what they are called)

I am well out of the loop compared to my old secretarial days so was not aware of the terminology  sorry.

No worries Tom. The funding formula was completely changed at the start of the season.  

[TOM(the other Molloy) 1,774]

1 hour ago, rdytdy said:

No worries Tom. The funding formula was completely changed at the start of the season.  

Yes I knew that but the basics of our  day's funding stayed quite similar

[TOM(the other Molloy) 1,774]

1 hour ago, Huey said:

What's the formula and where do you find it?

Try the NZTR website. News around the start of the season

[Trump 2,741]

Rdytdy, there may have been 40,000 plus on course in 1942 for the Auck Cup, but there was sfa on to offer anything else by way of entertainment. Moms stayed home while Dad went to the track. Things have changed. You used to have to go to the races to have a punt - now you don't. 

[rdytdy 5,343]

8 hours ago, Trump said:

Rdytdy, there may have been 40,000 plus on course in 1942 for the Auck Cup, but there was sfa on to offer anything else by way of entertainment. Moms stayed home while Dad went to the track. Things have changed. You used to have to go to the races to have a punt - now you don't. 

I think you will find that a fallacy Trump. I have old photos of crowds at Ellerslie in the 20s, 30s and 40s and there are a lot of women in them.

In 1942 the total population of NZ was 1.6 million and they got 45,000 there and now Auckland's population is 1.6 million by itself and they can't get 5000. hey have the best of facilities, top horses competing etc and 5000 to their flagship race, the Auckland Cup. Look at the population bases of other Cups, such as Christchurch, Wellington etc and see how many people turn up to those. Far greater crowds.   

 Yes, I am aware of TV, different events etc but it is a sad indictment of racing in Auckland. 

[bloke 1,232]

Hey Ted 5k is very generous for last year's Cup. I would have estimated 2k tops.

[bestbets 206]

2 hours ago, rdytdy said:

I think you will find that a fallacy Trump. I have old photos of crowds at Ellerslie in the 20s, 30s and 40s and there are a lot of women in them.

In 1942 the total population of NZ was 1.6 million and they got 45,000 there and now Auckland's population is 1.6 million by itself and they can't get 5000. hey have the best of facilities, top horses competing etc and 5000 to their flagship race, the Auckland Cup. Look at the population bases of other Cups, such as Christchurch, Wellington etc and see how many people turn up to those. Far greater crowds.   

 Yes, I am aware of TV, different events etc but it is a sad indictment of racing in Auckland. 

Auckland is a place of 1.6 million but they are made up of so many different cultures and many of those don't partake in gambling and drinking. The other lot like the casino and the few kiwis that still live in this city like me sit on our sofas and drink a few cold ones and bet on the internet/phone/ipads etc. I can hardly take the top off the Loin Red before I no longer can drive. How life has changed.

[rdytdy 5,343]

If your loins are red Bestbets, I can see a reason why you aren't heading off to Ellerslie. 

[bazach 133]

This has been a very interesting thread to read Tom and Ted. Re the lack of crowds at Auckland. There will be many reasons, some of which bestbets has alluded to. Another one is the complete chaos trying to get from A to B in this 'world class'(!) city. If I was bestbets I would be staying on my sofa too!. We spend a bit of time in Melbourne - went to Caulfield on boxing day, and the comparison between Auckland and Melbourne could not be better shown between the public transport available (or not in Auckland's case).

[Trump 2,741]

Mmm, you may be right Rdytdy, but you'll find that apart from a few local cup days etc, in general, racecourse attendance has declined all over the world. In areas where there is buggar all else to do, you may also find an exception (eg, Kumara Nuggets). The Magic Millions tomorrow will be a Zoo with lots of flesh exposed, including Horse flesh ! But outside this day and MC day, it's pretty much low crowd stuff. 

[crustyngrizzly 1,702]

The days of rugby and racing dominating a Saturday are well and truly over.Kids today have so many choices available to them and they all seem to have parents involved.Parents cannot be in 2 places at once and so racings patronage has to suffer.

Not the only reason why patronage is down but one of many.

[TOM(the other Molloy) 1,774]

44 minutes ago, Trump said:

Mmm, you may be right Rdytdy, but you'll find that apart from a few local cup days etc, in general, racecourse attendance has declined all over the world. In areas where there is buggar all else to do, you may also find an exception (eg, Kumara Nuggets). The Magic Millions tomorrow will be a Zoo with lots of flesh exposed, including Horse flesh ! But outside this day and MC day, it's pretty much low crowd stuff. 

Not sure 'bugger all else to do' is the reason Kumara will have 8000 or more tomorrow Trump.  Only 250 live in the town.  The majority if those with 'bugger all else to do' tomorrow will be from Christchurch so how do you explain why Riccarton only gets 500 through the gates on an average day?

It is not that there is 'bugger all else to do' it is just that Kumara, love em or hate em ,  put on a very very very good social day. 

But is is purely novelty factor that makes Kumara the event it is and, while they currently enjoy a charmed run with the Police and Liquor Licensing Authorities (ie they are still BYO) like everyone else they will eventually be forced to police alcohol entering the event.  LIke the Wellington Sevens, the Wildfoods Festival and countless other fantastic events the fun police will have the final say.  

And that is one thing we cannot blame the NZTR or NZRB for.

It is going to be a bog tomorrow. It has been bucketing down here overnight.

[elbow 50]

1 hour ago, TOM(the other Molloy) said:

It is going to be a bog tomorrow. It has been bucketing down here overnight.

ahh well go dan doonayr then

[N1MUE 1,877]

9 minutes ago, elbow said:

ahh well go dan doonayr then

it could rain more than it did back in Noah's day and there is no way on earth that Dan Doonayr will win tomorrow