Please Expalin

[We're Doomed 4,855]

Someone who knows more than I about how things work might care to explain to me how it is that those clubs with massive holiday crowds and charging $20 entry fees can get away with $7,000 maidens. I see Kumara which gets great crowds has $7,000 maidens and a $15,000 open class race. Tauherenikau also had $7,000 races,as did Hawkes Bay and several others. They also had decent sponsors. I thought all of the funding for such meetings came from some central source. Surely a bit of extra cold be contributed from all the gate fees.

It seems to me unfair in two respects. Surely the clubs with massive crowds should be getting more industry funding, and surely the trainers and owners supporting these popular meetings should be rewarded with decent stakes.

[bloke 1,232]

Have look at The Board Members of NZTR and which clubs they belong to. It's not Kumara and Tauherenikau. Guess which club has more than its fair share on the Board.

 

[puha 2,177]

Most of the smaller clubs biggest income would come from gate takings so you can't blame them for what they charge although $20 does sound excessive .  Also they have to maintain the tracks year round  pay a track manager etc so all adds up .  Agree with you though the stakes could be higher for the participants those that put the show on . The holiday crowd probably would not even know what the stake of the race was  they are their for their annual fix of summer racing filling in their holidays so to speak.

[Shad 1,554]

I think 20 dollars is to much for entry. After all we are meant to encourage punters and families alike. Personally for me Kumara race day  is overrated.  Having been in the early years in the days of the old track  where it could rain for a month or be fine weather the track was like sponge always soft regardless. I think at some stage has been upgraded. Last meeting we went to was abandoned after one race. Since then i think they may have had one or two more. A shame given all the hard work and cost of a lost meet. Just a thought are our clubs striving to hard to prepare the perfect surface or is it just bad luck. Given the contraversy with irrigation ect which was probably unheard of 30 odd years ago. Maybe better left to the weather gods to dictate. Be interested to hear of any other upgraded tracks that have had multiple abandonments. Good luck to Kumara with meeting i do recommend to those who haven't been must experience the day out. Im off to Reefton tomorrow,is a great meeting and long may it last.

Edited January 5, 2016 by Shad
Typo

[Bimbo 734]

$20 to go to the races is a rip-off.  More than $5 for race entry or a beer is a rip-off

[chelseacol 2,488]

6 hours ago, Bimbo said:

$20 to go to the races is a rip-off.  More than $5 for race entry or a beer is a rip-off

What sized beer are you talking about Bimbo - a 7 or a jug ???

 

[TOM(the other Molloy) 1,774]

8 hours ago, Shad said:

I think 20 dollars is to much for entry. After all we are meant to encourage punters and families alike. Personally for me Kumara race day  is overrated.  Having been in the early years in the days of the old track  where it could rain for a month or be fine weather the track was like sponge always soft regardless. I think at some stage has been upgraded. Last meeting we went to was abandoned after one race. Since then i think they may have had one or two more. A shame given all the hard work and cost of a lost meet. Just a thought are our clubs striving to hard to prepare the perfect surface or is it just bad luck. Given the contraversy with irrigation ect which was probably unheard of 30 odd years ago. Maybe better left to the weather gods to dictate. Be interested to hear of any other upgraded tracks that have had multiple abandonments. Good luck to Kumara with meeting i do recommend to those who haven't been must experience the day out. Im off to Reefton tomorrow,is a great meeting and long may it last.

The Reefton Jockey club appreciates the sentiment Shad. Ask for Brian Molloy at the secretary's office and we will shout you a beer(s).

Plenty of tracks have been renovated and invariably there have been multiple abandonments and problems when they do.

Kumara is just one example but Greymouth has had problems post renovations, Rangiora's troubles happened after work was done, Riccarton always seems to be having issues, Ashburton has been 'upgraded' and had abandonment and track difficulties. And that is just in the top of the south. Dunedin and Gore are two others but the country is littered with renovated tracks that had problems especially in the initial stages.

Kumara went perilously close to going broke after that abandonment - they have had to very carefully manage their expenditure since and it does cost a lot to run their raceday. Hire of portable toilets alone used to cost them (I think) somewhere in the order of $20000..

Stake levels are really set by the dates committee and governing code. Your meeting status determines the funding you receive from them and there is a limited amount the club can do to increase stakes above that.

[von Smallhaussen 3,226]

27 minutes ago, TOM(the other Molloy) said:

. Hire of portable toilets alone used to cost them (I think) somewhere in the order of $20000..

 

T O M - here is the answer .... $2 for a beer and $10 for a leak 

[Bimbo 734]

2 hours ago, chelseacol said:

What sized beer are you talking about Bimbo - a 7 or a jug ???

 

12 oz

[Shad 1,554]

Beautiful day for Reefton gallops. Hope everyone goes to support the club. Fields have stood up well and i don't think there will be a 20 dollar gate charge. Good luck to trainers punters and all. Win lose or draw a great day out. 

[Shad 1,554]

I guess everyone has their views on admission charges. Was free at Reefton today, great racing close finishes a enjoyable day. Worried about the future of the club given the talk of finishing up. Didn't hear wether it was financial but was mention of needing more committee members. Be a crying shame if this happens. Seems the younger generation are not interested in the racing game. Come on Reefton locals keep this iconic meeting going. On a different note race times seemed to me to be very fast. Wondering if starting gates are in true position. Anyone know the track records of all distances. I know they shifted the winning post sumtime ago. Don't print them in race book anymore. Track was in perfect condition a credit to the club and all involved. Good to see all horses get around safely.

[We're Doomed 4,855]

I'm amazed they were allowed to have free entry. I thought it was compulsory to charge for these summer type events. You used to get a free water at some. I'm pleased the day went well.

[Jefferson 207]

I am starting to realise it appears a number of people on this site either live in the South Island or really support South Island racing. Explains why there appears to be so much hatred towards Ellerslie and no I don't live any where near Auckland, don't live in the South Island either. I do regard Ellerslie as more necessary to NZ racing when you consider population numbers compared to all South Island clubs (ignore Riccarton from this comment).   

[Jefferson 207]

On 5/01/2016, 8:21:59, We're Doomed said:

Someone who knows more than I about how things work might care to explain to me how it is that those clubs with massive holiday crowds and charging $20 entry fees can get away with $7,000 maidens. I see Kumara which gets great crowds has $7,000 maidens and a $15,000 open class race. Tauherenikau also had $7,000 races,as did Hawkes Bay and several others. They also had decent sponsors. I thought all of the funding for such meetings came from some central source. Surely a bit of extra cold be contributed from all the gate fees.

It seems to me unfair in two respects. Surely the clubs with massive crowds should be getting more industry funding, and surely the trainers and owners supporting these popular meetings should be rewarded with decent stakes.

Get the annual books of these clubs and see if their bottom lines allow them to put more into stakes, answer no. 

On another matter, so many talk about the participants, say trainers, who deserve more than $7k stakes. Unfortunately we all see examples of good stakes put up on a Saturday with small fields, then you look at the mid week before and after and see bigger fields for small stakes. Trainers (some) don't help themselves and more importantly don't help their owners. They assume small stakes therefore lower quality fields easier to win, but often no.

[We're Doomed 4,855]

I don't think it's a hatred towards Ellerslie. I think a lot of people with a long history in the industry feel that Auckland ends up with more than it deserves at the expense of other clubs. If they were the equivalent of Flemington we would all be delighted to see them leading the way.

Us South Islanders remember the days of Grey Way, Show Gate, Little Brown Jug, Canterbury Belle, The Fantasy, The Twinkle, The Dimple etc etc, sadly I can't recall the last great horse to come out of the South. I'm sure someone can enlighten me.

I think if SI racing was stronger NZ racing would be stronger. We aren't going to get horses from Australia or elsewhere coming to race in our big races so the next best thing is to have a strong SI presence in our northern Cups and Derbies etc.

[TOM(the other Molloy) 1,774]

Multitude of answers to questions raised here. 

First Shad it was me talking on the PA after the Reefton Cup(I was also the sponsor) and no it is  definitely not a financial issue but it is about committee membership. We are pretty well off money wise but the president has been 35 years on the committee including probably the last twelve years as President. I have been there in various roles from Auditor to secretary to treasurer to vice president for probably 28 years (and I have to travel from Greymouth - 50 miles away - for meetings)and one of the other committee has been there almost as long as the president. Nobody is coming through to the committee and the bottom line is we are tired. We desperately need more enthusiasm.  In another recent thread I talked about the unfortunate Gary Chittick/John Alexander funding formula proposal - at the time I was secretary of both greymouth and reefton and my quote was that clubs would go bankrupt on enthusiasm before they went broke financially and Reefton might well be such a case.

However. ......

We are calling a public meeting in the town soon to discuss our position.  Hopefully a good windup today will encourage people out of the woodwork - but I am not holding my breath.

Having said all that we did have a good day today and turned over 81k on course - so before you tell us what a saviour Ellerslie is for NZ racing Jefferson have a look at what they turn over on Saturday and consider that they are a city of 1.3m versus a small town of 2500.  Should be somewhere in the region of 40,000,000 on course on a pro-rata basis should it not?

Ellerslie is undoubtedly important to NZ racing but so too are the grassroots clubs.

Re the distances and times at Reefton I can assure you they have been checked and are correct. A sub 1.23 1400 in the Reefton Cup might seem unbelievable but it is accurate. While the course is tiny there is no back straight - it is just a big D shape which let's horses handle it a little better than might appear in the surface.  The track record for 1020m is 56 seconds by a mare called Quality Street of Kelly Burne's few years ago. Unbelievable but it really is a very fast surface and the O'Malley's know a bit about track preparation.

The reason we do not charge is because we like to have as many locals as possible on hand and we are not part of the Summer Festival as a consequence ( which makes it a bit difficult when  all the other circuit meetings get radio advertising and we do not -  a lot of people do not realize we are even racing)

Thank you all for your generous praise of our Club and we hope that things will fall into place to let that continue for years to come. We are not on our own with this participation problem but maybe we will be the first to capitalize.  Time will tell.

[TOM(the other Molloy) 1,774]

1 hour ago, Jefferson said:

Get the annual books of these clubs and see if their bottom lines allow them to put more into stakes, answer no. 

On another matter, so many talk about the participants, say trainers, who deserve more than $7k stakes. Unfortunately we all see examples of good stakes put up on a Saturday with small fields, then you look at the mid week before and after and see bigger fields for small stakes. Trainers (some) don't help themselves and more importantly don't help their owners. They assume small stakes therefore lower quality fields easier to win, but often no.

Stakes are very much dictated by the code - we get a certain set amount to run what is effectively an industry day and those are the dictated stakes. We could pay a little bit more but it does not improve the quality or numbers in the fields.

Unlike the Auckland Racing Club we do not get wads of industry cash to prop us up.

Have a look at the ARC bottom line and see if it can afford more stakes.  The bottom line does not always tell the story regarding a Club's ability to pay higher stakes anyway.

[Shad 1,554]

Thanks for your reply Tom. You certainly have been dedicated to the  Reefton club. Good luck with your upcoming meeting with the  locals. I guess some dont see the tireless work and dedication it takes to run a meeting. Those race times are a credit to the track managers.

[TOM(the other Molloy) 1,774]

6 hours ago, TOM(the other Molloy) said:

Thank you all for your generous praise of our Club and we hope that things will fall into place to let that continue for years to come. We are not on our own with this participation problem but maybe we will be the first to capitalize.  Time will tell.

The word should be capitulate not capitalize! Bloody computers!

[Midget 4,489]

As an aside it's worth noting that Reefton is comparatively well resourced and visionary, an example being that they purchased their own overhead starting gates some years ago, an unassisted purchase too, no industry grants there.

Compare that to the farce we've seen over recent months in the North where both clubs, and NZTR, have been unable to mobilise their resources and do the same.

It's not easy being a small club in NZ. and it'd be sad if Reefton does fold because that'd be likely to cause a domino effect and make Greymouth and Hokitika vulnerable.

Circuit racing in summer is an important part of our culture, it allows lesser horses an opportunity, and it defrays owners costs when they can run multiple times on one circuit over a short period.

Good luck to the club, I hope you find a war forward.

[rdytdy 5,341]

8 hours ago, TOM(the other Molloy) said:

 

Having said all that we did have a good day today and turned over 81k on course - so before you tell us what a saviour Ellerslie is for NZ racing Jefferson have a look at what they turn over on Saturday and consider that they are a city of 1.3m versus a small town of 2500.  Should be somewhere in the region of 40,000,000 on course on a pro-rata basis should it not?

 

 

Tom, being an industry day you wouldn't have got any commission on your $81k on-course turnover this year, instead receiving a fixed amount from NZTR. What difference has this made on the day to the club's profitability?    

[rdytdy 5,341]

8 hours ago, TOM(the other Molloy) said:

 

Having said all that we did have a good day today and turned over 81k on course - so before you tell us what a saviour Ellerslie is for NZ racing Jefferson have a look at what they turn over on Saturday and consider that they are a city of 1.3m versus a small town of 2500.  Should be somewhere in the region of 40,000,000 on course on a pro-rata basis should it not?

 

 Try 1.6 million Tom. NZ population 4.4 million.

I put up a Trivia thread last night and one of the questions related to Kindergarten. I noted that when he won the the Auckland Cup by five lengths in 1942 there were 45,000 people on-course. Now Auckland Cup day they can't even get 5,000. 

 

[Midget 4,489]

Paddy,i am very happy for the club to have had good turnover and hopefully the club will continue.

I was seriously thinking of bringing a couple down,but the thought of Karen talking horses for some 2 days whilst traveling,convinced me that a trip to Ruakaka was achievable,as it is under 3 hours traveling time and i could just blast the one day cricket commentary on the radio,but she still lean over and turn that down,but i just kept the finger on the volume control on the steering wheel and the next time i looked across she was asleep.

I did watch the races on Trackside and the track looked in great order and the times being run reflected this.I must add i thought some of the riding was average at best and whilst it is a tight track,i couldn't believe how they were cutting each other throats trying to get the lead,but every rider and horse get around safely.

As an aside Paddy' did the Stewards use the towers that had to be upgraded under Cambell Moncur's instructions at 10's of thousand of the club resources or did they not use them like in the previous meetings and be a complete waste of money??? 

[Huey 2,037]

1 hour ago, rdytdy said:

Tom, being an industry day you wouldn't have got any commission on your $81k on-course turnover this year, instead receiving a fixed amount from NZTR. What difference has this made on the day to the club's profitability?    

I thought the industry days still paid the 17% commission for on course turnover?

[TOM(the other Molloy) 1,774]

56 minutes ago, rdytdy said:

 Try 1.6 million Tom. NZ population 4.4 million.

I put up a Trivia thread last night and one of the questions related to Kindergarten. I noted that when he won the the Auckland Cup by five lengths in 1942 there were 45,000 people on-course. Now Auckland Cup day they can't even get 5,000. 

 

That's a fair point Ted but to be fair the social aspects of life have changed a fair bit in that time. Television as made a huge difference obviously - a cynic might ask why they would venture to Ellerslie on Saturday when you  can sit on your lazy boy and watch the magic millions, Flemington  and Randwick ( or wherever they are this weekend) a beer at your side and the TAB account topped up. Then there is the drink drive factor - using Reefton as a an example the old days of a day in the booth then a session in each Reefton pub and a leisurely trip home to Greymouth visiting each of the Grey Valley hotels as you went and finally staggering home around 4 am are long gone.

The world is a changing place.

If Hasselhoof continues his winning way and the publicity keeps escalating then maybe a lot bigger crowd will be there on Cup day or whenever he runs.  NZ racing needs a dead set superstar to get them back and he  (or xtravagent ) could be the one(so accolades to those who made sure he stayed here)