RaceCafe..#1...Tipsters Thread.... Share Your Fancies For Fun...Lets See Who The Best Tipsters Here Are.
departed

TAB monopoly must go

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I have said this before, and I will say it again.  The monopoly held by the TAB, courtesy of a government that just doesn't care, is killing NZ racing.  Today races were delayed and punters unable to bet, on what is supposed to be the biggest day in racing in NZ.  Australian racing channels broadcast it live, as racing was delayed while some wombats in Petone tried to sort out the mess.  I would hate to say how much this ruined turnover figures.

If punters had a choice, the debacle need not have been as tragic as it was.  In Australia punters have any number of other bookies they can place bets with, and get a far, far better service.  Money in betting accounts can be transferred at the click of a button to visa debit cards.  How far away is the NZ TAB from offering this to its long suffering punters?

The NZ government has to sit up and take some interest in the dire state of NZ racing.  It used to employ many thousands of people.  Larger and larger numbers of them are now in Oz.  Every trainer we speak to in NZ talks of things having got worse.  When will it all end?

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I recently wrote to the Minister of Racing, complaining about the poor state of racing in New Zealand. I mentioned Stake Money,Trial Fees and the donation of monies from the TAB into online accounts!!, where does this money come from I wanted to know. Unfortunately in his reply on December 17 2015 he ignored these concerns, but assured me " that the Government has currently no plans to become involved in providing stake money."

He went on to tell me something we all know, that the New Zealand  racing industry is very important as it contributes  $1.6 billion to New Zealand's GDP and provides the equivalent of some 17,000 fulltime jobs , it appears to me all take and no give, and this is not good enough.(think of the tax take.)

I also asked him whether he wanted to be remembered as useless as his predecssor, he said he is "committed to working with the racing industry to ensure it is sustainable in the long term. and continues to provide an enjoyable and colourful recreation option for  New Zealanders ."  yeah  right!

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The Racing Board should dismantle the TAB and sell the betting rights to Super TAB or NSW TAB. They would run it a damn side better. I am not joking. I think there would be greater longterm return in the form of stakes for the industry.

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1 hour ago, sharrymac said:

I recently wrote to the Minister of Racing, complaining about the poor state of racing in New Zealand. I mentioned Stake Money,Trial Fees and the donation of monies from the TAB into online accounts!!, where does this money come from I wanted to know. Unfortunately in his reply on December 17 2015 he ignored these concerns, but assured me " that the Government has currently no plans to become involved in providing stake money."

He went on to tell me something we all know, that the New Zealand  racing industry is very important as it contributes  $1.6 billion to New Zealand's GDP and provides the equivalent of some 17,000 fulltime jobs , it appears to me all take and no give, and this is not good enough.(think of the tax take.)

I also asked him whether he wanted to be remembered as useless as his predecssor, he said he is "committed to working with the racing industry to ensure it is sustainable in the long term. and continues to provide an enjoyable and colourful recreation option for  New Zealanders ."  yeah  right!

It's much more important than any of these idiots know.

How about the fact that it's easily the biggest employer of "unskilled" workers. No disrespect intended and I don't know where we would be without them, but many of our most important lower paid staff would struggle to find employment if not in racing. Surely that is something that the government can't afford to have fail.

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1 hour ago, kakama said:

Just watching the Aussie/ India odi. 

A huge $22 mil betfair, so half of this matched.  Just before that last wicket betfair had Aussie $2.01, India $1.99, how good are those odds. Crownbet had both at $1.90, tab had both at $1.85???

No wonder sports punters use the exchange.

Aussie lost another wicket, tab had option suspended , but now looks like the game is not even open at all??

Crazy, why don't they just close betting at start of play on all events, would make it easier for punters. 

Tab, when the game changes, that's when punters want to bet, by you closing or suspending options, it just kills the chance the punter has of making money, covering bets etc.

Any punter in nz that likes sport, the tab are killing you

I agree, they are very quick to suspend options and very slow to re open them compared to other agencies. I sort of assumed that the reason for this was that they were either copying or checking what odds other agencies were offering before they re opened there option. Another thing that infuriates me is there website shows one set of odds but when you get to the confirm page the odds are completely different.

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On 2/01/2016, 3:35:17, sharrymac said:

I recently wrote to the Minister of Racing, complaining about the poor state of racing in New Zealand. I mentioned Stake Money,Trial Fees and the donation of monies from the TAB into online accounts!!, where does this money come from I wanted to know. Unfortunately in his reply on December 17 2015 he ignored these concerns, but assured me " that the Government has currently no plans to become involved in providing stake money."

He went on to tell me something we all know, that the New Zealand  racing industry is very important as it contributes  $1.6 billion to New Zealand's GDP and provides the equivalent of some 17,000 fulltime jobs , it appears to me all take and no give, and this is not good enough.(think of the tax take.)

I also asked him whether he wanted to be remembered as useless as his predecssor, he said he is "committed to working with the racing industry to ensure it is sustainable in the long term. and continues to provide an enjoyable and colourful recreation option for  New Zealanders ."  yeah  right!

My experience, the Guy wouldn't know any more about racing than what his advisors have listed in his briefing papers. That's not good enough, he should know who won the main races the previous Saturday, not because he read the Sunday papers, but because he wants to like you and me. Watched most of them or if busy caught up with replays, Weigh In etc. He should know what good racing is coming up both here and in Oz, that is what a passionate racing person does. That is what a good Minister of Racing would be like.

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Sickopunter you should have been a scriptwriter for the Goon Show! In reference to  your statement about "unskilled" workers in racing I would remind you that John Key started his working life as a Stablehand for the legendary Trotting Trainer Cec Devine. Mind you some people probably think he is still engaged in an "unskilled" occupation!

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31 minutes ago, gubellini said:

Sickopunter you should have been a scriptwriter for the Goon Show! In reference to  your statement about "unskilled" workers in racing I would remind you that John Key started his working life as a Stablehand for the legendary Trotting Trainer Cec Devine. Mind you some people probably think he is still engaged in an "unskilled" occupation!

You could remind me whatever you want. And in whatever condescending way you choose. But I already knew that. And I did say "unskilled".

Many of these staff were early school leavers and wouldn't be qualified for many other jobs. 

Happy?

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Thanks Sickopunter. You will find that this situation is changing. More full time Racing employees have tertiary degree/ diploma qualifications. For example both Kelly and Rosie Myers have degrees from Massey University. Craig Grylls is a qualified pilot. Hardly in the "unskilled" category!

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6 minutes ago, gubellini said:

Thanks Sickopunter. You will find that this situation is changing. More full time Racing employees have tertiary degree/ diploma qualifications. For example both Kelly and Rosie Myers have degrees from Massey University. Craig Grylls is a qualified pilot. Hardly in the "unskilled" category!

That's great. Will be very useful for all of those that have a fallback or a plan b if racing folds. But your ability to highlight a few people who are the exception to the rule doesn't change my point. In fact I wonder what the merit was in you even making it. Grub.

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Thanks Sickopunter for your post. I don't see much merit in you calling me a "grub" either! These so called "unskilled" workers are the real heroes in racing. I am an owner but rarely go to the races even when a horse I have a share in is racing. When I do I make a point of giving the strapper a sling whether the horse runs first or last! Hardly the activity of a "grub"! If you are an owner I invite you to do the same!

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I am an owner and I have done the same. I don't know why you keep making points that I've already made in my first post. "No disrespect intended and I don't know where we would be without them..."

The grub comment was just a lighthearted poke at your name. But I see I misread it and there is no r in it. Your "Goon Show" rip on me indicates that you are an individual of a far advanced age to mine so perhaps I should be a little kinder, more respectful and forgiving. I'll take out the Grub. I'm still trying to find what the intent of all of your posts is though, unless it's to try to contradict my original post. You've more agreed with it than anything at this point. 

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5 minutes ago, gubellini said:

No problems Sickopunter! Just enjoy the banter on Race Cafe! Good luck in your ownership/ Punting endeavours!

And to you. Being an owner at these challenging times we could all use some luck. I tried to go back and take it out but the edit thing only seems to be available on the most recent post. So you can consider this a retraction of that word. 

I wouldn't be surprised if we "lock horns" again on here but I appreciate all owners, trainers, punters and workers skilled and unskilled in this industry as long as they are in it with integrity and for the right reasons. All the best.

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37 minutes ago, gubellini said:

Thanks Sickopunter for your post. I don't see much merit in you calling me a "grub" either! These so called "unskilled" workers are the real heroes in racing. I am an owner but rarely go to the races even when a horse I have a share in is racing. When I do I make a point of giving the strapper a sling whether the horse runs first or last! Hardly the activity of a "grub"! If you are an owner I invite you to do the same!

And with that post you win 'post of the year'[so far IMO]......salt of the earth, and racing can not continue with owners staying away, still paying and supporting, but staying away......I'm guilty of that, but until the management at Petone changes, it will be my chosen path....a silent protest if you like, great to see you and sickopunter shake hands, that's what makes this site, 99.9% are decent, genuine human beings IMO!

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TAB monopoly doesn't have to go, and the main reason is that it's singularly responsible for racing media at every level which is a considerable burden, and an absolute necessity.

What might be an option is to have it split into performance driven divisions.

1. Administration & media.

2. Fixed odds betting

3. Tote betting

4. Exchange betting

Each division ( 2, 3 & 4 ) would effectively compete against the other and could bet (arbitrage) with the other, and each division would have performance targets based on global standards.

That's a common sense and reasonable solution, so it'll never happen.

 

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Back to departeds original thread! Even after paying out the N.Z. Rugby Union the T.A.B. must have pocketed some decent wedge after the Rugby World Cup last year even though the "wrong" team won from their point of view! When are we going to see the trickle down to Stakes from this largesse?!

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On 1/2/2016, 3:38:02, Peter Jenkins said:

The Racing Board should dismantle the TAB and sell the betting rights to Super TAB or NSW TAB. They would run it a damn side better. I am not joking. I think there would be greater longterm return in the form of stakes for the industry.

Maybe you would like the Oz Dick Smith equity dealers run it. NZ doesn't need to sell anything. Just streamline the whole operation. As mentioned also splitting the media side of it as well into a standalone company. The TAB was never set up to get into media, publishing, bookmaking etc. All those things have come by default. Early in the nineties the TAB started compiling results etc into a database but did so very quietly because they didn't want to upset Turf digest/Best Bets. I can't remember any dialogue as to who should run Trackside. TAB just went ahead regardless.

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Slam dunk, I'm not sure about your first line. Looks like you were having a crack at me. Whatever. "NZ doesn't need to sell anything. Just streamline the whole operation" - You make it sound simple but this goal has eluded them for a couple of decades. I am sure that SuperTAB or the NSW TAB, Ladbrokes, etc would run the betting side of the industry at a increased profit to provide better returns for the stakeholders even after taking their cut. The TAB is a lame, sick duck peopled by don't care, never will types who have had a very low bar of achievement set for them. Their utter lack of professionalism shines through in just about everything they do. We almost act grateful when they simply perform to the level that should be mandatory. Your comments regarding media, publishing and bookmaking almost make you sound like an apologist. They are in those businesses now by their own choice. They need to lift their game. Their "bookmakers" should be reported under the trades description act or something similar. Surely the most gutless on the planet....

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19 minutes ago, Peter Jenkins said:

Slam dunk, I'm not sure about your first line. Looks like you were having a crack at me. Whatever. "NZ doesn't need to sell anything. Just streamline the whole operation" - You make it sound simple but this goal has eluded them for a couple of decades. I am sure that SuperTAB or the NSW TAB, Ladbrokes, etc would run the betting side of the industry at a increased profit to provide better returns for the stakeholders even after taking their cut. The TAB is a lame, sick duck peopled by don't care, never will types who have had a very low bar of achievement set for them. Their utter lack of professionalism shines through in just about everything they do. We almost act grateful when they simply perform to the level that should be mandatory. Your comments regarding media, publishing and bookmaking almost make you sound like an apologist. They are in those businesses now by their own choice. They need to lift their game. Their "bookmakers" should be reported under the trades description act or something similar. Surely the most gutless on the planet....

 

29 minutes ago, slam dunk said:

Maybe you would like the Oz Dick Smith equity dealers run it. NZ doesn't need to sell anything. Just streamline the whole operation. As mentioned also splitting the media side of it as well into a standalone company. The TAB was never set up to get into media, publishing, bookmaking etc. All those things have come by default. Early in the nineties the TAB started compiling results etc into a database but did so very quietly because they didn't want to upset Turf digest/Best Bets. I can't remember any dialogue as to who should run Trackside. TAB just went ahead regardless.

Far be it of me to have a professional opinion on the grand scale of the computer/communications/media upgrade required, by NZ TAB

to compete successfully with it,s Trans Tasman competition...But is it any wonder Leakage is Rife!

I am a small (upto $100 wk) Saturday Punter ...F/F prices come out on the Friday night ...(8/10 under the odds) and in the 2 out of 10 bets you decide

are value (who knows whether oz bookies offer better odds)...I can,t be bothered as remain loyal to NZ TAB and have to carry the other 8 bets over till saturday

Same scenario applies...Bullshit tote prices displayed trying to get you to take fixed...money in tote pool rises ...price drops on a few runners (market alignment?)

Laying off bets? who knows. But the most frustrating is you go to take bet on fixed and the message odds on your bet-type have changed...

would you like to take this bet @ $... /  or you back it on tote, thinking thats good value...it wins...paying considerably less than last seen

on trackside before they jump!....  YEP SOMETHING NEEDS TO CHANGE.... ENOUGH NEGATIVES ALREADY IN RACING   

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15 hours ago, gubellini said:

Sickopunter you should have been a scriptwriter for the Goon Show! In reference to  your statement about "unskilled" workers in racing I would remind you that John Key started his working life as a Stablehand for the legendary Trotting Trainer Cec Devine. Mind you some people probably think he is still engaged in an "unskilled" occupation!

Now I know why he is so bloody unusual. He's the only one I know who has had anything to do with them and not been bitten by the bug! 

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Even though he mucked out for Cec early in the piece ,John,s had the 1/1 ever since,

Nathan has enjoyed the trail, waiting on the passing lane...

20 hours ago, gubellini said:

 I would remind you that John Key started his working life as a Stablehand for the legendary Trotting Trainer Cec Devine. Mind you some people probably think he is still engaged in an "unskilled" occupation!

Drinkies and promotion / marketing photo,s at Ellerslie.

This Beehive lark must be like a dwardle down the back-straight

On 1/2/2016, 3:35:17, sharrymac said:

I also asked him whether he wanted to be remembered as useless as his predecssor, he said he is "committed to working with the racing industry to ensure it is sustainable in the long term. and continues to provide an enjoyable and colourful recreation option for  New Zealanders ."  yeah  right!

 

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