Moody changing stories

[Leggy 4,067]

30 minutes ago, kdt said:

Hi Midget and Leggy, really appreciate your insight/expertise into the issues around this case. Just a question (and maybe this is not fair to ask as its probably not this simple) given what Racing Victoria have been up to in regards to the samples what chance Moody now has a "get out of jail" card handed to him?

At this stage kdt,a ruling on that submission by the board has been set aside until final submissions have been heard, so it's a bit hard to say. Given that, you'd think the RAD board did not think that the matter was entirely clear cut, though I note that yesterday when the matter was raised, Judge John Bowman, chairman of the board, said "It is not a trivial argument, it is one of substance".

https://www.racing.com/news/2015-12-17/moody-set-to-take-witness-stand

It seems they want to consider that along with the rest of the evidence and not have it cause further delay. As we speak, Moody himself will be testifying.

Contrary to departed's opinion, I don't think Moody is suggesting that he doesn't take responsibility for his staff's actions here. We'll no doubt know more about that once his testimony is reported. To date the argument put forward by his barrister is that the hoof supplement fed (overfed by a staff member but that apparently not known to Moody at the time) to Lidari, along with a vitamin injection caused the excess levels, not the intentional administration of a PED. In fact it seems he is arguing in a sense that he IS guilty of administering the cobalt, but in harmless forms, not the cobalt salt form administered IV with performance enhancing intention that has been at the centre of the previous cases.

[Leggy 4,067]

https://www.racing.com/news/2015-12-17/moody-takes-stand-in-cobalt-case

[Leggy 4,067]

Well evidently, on top of the 7x dose of the hoof supplement there was an IV multi-vitamin injection 24 hours prior to race time. Nothing I've seen as to what that was. Whatever, it's hard to imagine that combination could have caused the levels recorded.

Moody's defence argues a stablehand mistakenly gave Lidari large doses of oral hoof treatment Availa - at seven times the recommended quantity - and Moody played no part in it.

The horse was also given an IV multi-vitamin injection 24 hours before the race rather than the normal 48 hours.

Read more at http://www.bloodstock.com.au/news/story.php?id=15301#hvaYt6jKR1h4K6Os.97

[Leggy 4,067]

https://www.racing.com/news/2015-12-18/moody-cobalt-hearing-heats-up

[Leggy 4,067]

Another major trainer cobalt positive. A sample reading reportedly over 600?

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/superracing/vic-racing/racings-big-blue-stain-you-would-be-mad-bonkers-to-mess-with-cobalt/news-story/36073b34604d5db3d80e4dae3ecd09ac

[elo 106]

Can someone please tell us - with all these +ve cobalt results in Aussie, were the horses relegated as soon as a poss test was returned or are the horses still holding their placings until after the enquiries?

[Leggy 4,067]

http://www.pressreader.com/australia/herald-sun/20151219/282883729675140/TextView

Hopefully this link will work. Sorry about the other. Thanks for letting me know Los.

[Guest 2Admin2]

On 12/16/2015, 9:37:29, GONSTA said:

That's because of sheer numbers more than anything else, of course when you have the number of horse's that he trains your going to get a few winners, how did he go in the Melbourne Spring carnival this year with all the scrutiny over him currently. Apart from Kinglike I'm struggling to think of many top class horses he's had winners with? 

Surely the group statistics of this season says it all, and if your going to dope a horse on cobalt your not going to target a 30k mid week race are you, your going to try and win a big race, as we know big race wins get new owners and horses to the stable, something Mark Kavanagh experienced this year with his $600 in frozen stakes from the spring carnival. Then there was the transformation of mid summer music and Manighar a few years back when he could do no wrong, yet this year alarm bells must be ringing even for the true believers.

Gonsta I see Peter Moody has risen to third for both Victoria and Metro Trainers Premierships.

Note he has a better winners strike rate than Weir or Hayes and with a lot less starts.

1	Darren Weir	911	135
2	David Hayes	583	75
3	Peter G Moody	376	60

[Los Lobos 139]

Just wondering has anyone heard any more regarding this latest positive in Victoria. Like who, when, whats happening etc. Seems to be hard to find any details.

[Jefferson 207]

 

15 hours ago, Los Lobos said:

Just wondering has anyone heard any more regarding this latest positive in Victoria. Like who, when, whats happening etc. Seems to be hard to find any details.

The industry, doesn't matter if Australia or NZ, hate positives and wish they could go away. Unfortunately the top end pull in top lawyers and make the process so drawn out it damages the look. Of course they may have sent the case to NZ knowing they will die of old age before anything happens. If I tested positive for anything at work I would be gone, in racing they continue to work making a good living (good because the lawyers aren't cheap, so therefore worth employing them). 

[Los Lobos 139]

Yes Jefferson I agree. It seems in every other walk of life some form of reprimand  occurs. Like being sacked, facing discredit, being stripped of medals etc. It appears on  the face of it that these offenders carry on as if nothing has happened and enjoy business as usual. Surely if there was a benefit in "Facing The Music" cases would come to a satisfactory conclusion much quicker. If there was a stand down in racing would it not encourage those under suspicion to stop any delaying tactics and get the matter sorted, but as it stands there is no benefit to get to the truth quickly. We hear how the matter is very complicated and understand that but come on lets see either the cheats punished or if innocent let those accused be able to hold their heads high again. Either way its time to get them sorted.

[kdt 291]

Racing Victoria have just announced another cobalt case. The O'Sullivans from Stawell have had one of their runners return 1300. 

[Leggy 4,067]

Yes, that was initially indicated mid December but oddly the A sample was reported at 600+ and now the reserve sample at 1300+ ....something doesn't add up? Come in Midget 2.

[kdt 291]

If I have the right family they have been around Victoria racing a long time and well respected, that doesn't add up either. Why would you risk everything you have worked at for so long, beggars belief. 

[Insider 3,932]

Surely no one is that stupid with all the information out there now about about cobalt.

Over 1300, it beggars belief! 

It only ran 5th too. I thought the stuff was supposed to work. 

I smell a rat. I hope that I am right otherwise I will never be able to trust any Australian trainer again. 

[Los Lobos 139]

Found this article regarding how the level for cobalt was established in Australia which made interesting  reading:-.

An exert from it:-

Dr Wan advised Sanders:

“For raceday samples, as long as your rules prohibit all forms of injections on a raceday, a reasonable unpublished threshold might be considered at 60 µg/L in urine (based on a population of 981 samples and a risk of 1 in 10,000) or even 100 µg/L.”

Dr Wan’s advised that no untreated horse should have a level greater than 60 µg/L but, to be safe, a level of 100 µg/L would clearly represent a treated horse on raceday.

This makes one think that a reading of over 1300 surely needs explaining. 

Am I right in thinking that only the larger training establishments so far have had high readings reported?

 Or is it that the smaller "battlers"  don't get reported. Surely not! If not doesn't it seem that in itself becomes suspicious?

Am I right in thinking that only races where the money is up has these unexplained high readings been discovered?

I have come to the conclusion that a small insignificant trainer with just a few in work should pull the plug and take up a sport where 1) its fair

                     2) The rules are implemented

                     3) Those found breaking the rules are dealt with in a speedy manner

                     4) Other members are kept in the know as to what is being done when a reading is high.

                     5) The member under investigation may not take part until the the results are conclusive. 

 

[Los Lobos 139]

Found this article regarding how the level for cobalt was established in Australia which made interesting  reading:-.

An exert from it:-

Dr Wan advised Sanders:

“For raceday samples, as long as your rules prohibit all forms of injections on a raceday, a reasonable unpublished threshold might be considered at 60 µg/L in urine (based on a population of 981 samples and a risk of 1 in 10,000) or even 100 µg/L.”

Dr Wan’s advised that no untreated horse should have a level greater than 60 µg/L but, to be safe, a level of 100 µg/L would clearly represent a treated horse on raceday.

This makes one think that a reading of over 1300 surely needs explaining. 

Am I right in thinking that only the larger training establishments so far have had high readings reported?

 Or is it that the smaller "battlers"  don't get reported. Surely not! If not doesn't it seem that in itself becomes suspicious?

Am I right in thinking that only races where the money is up has these unexplained high readings been discovered?

I have come to the conclusion that a small insignificant trainer with just a few in work should pull the plug and take up a sport where 1) its fair

                     2) The rules are implemented

                     3) Those found breaking the rules are dealt with in a speedy manner

                     4) Other members are kept in the know as to what is being done when a reading is high.

                     5) The member under investigation may not take part until the the results are conclusive. 

 

Edited January 8, 2016 by Los Lobos
submitted twice

[Leggy 4,067]

https://www.racing.com/news/2016-02-18/gleeson-moodys-defence-full-of-lies

[Leggy 4,067]

Well it's D-day for Moods. This will be an interesting decision. While the hoof supplement explanation seems rather implausible, unlike the Hope/O'B/Kav/Brennan cases, there has been no sign of any evidence of high priced bottles of supplements, pre-raceday drips, or dodgy characters hovering around. Then you have the added complication of the stewards illegally splitting the sample. In the absence of a plausible alternative explanation or any other evidence of administration, could the decision rest on the question of whether or not the high levels themselves are sufficient evidence?

[Midget 4,489]

Given that the prosecution's expert witness has done a complete backflip and now effectively supports the Moody position it seems we'll probably see the lesser charge of " presenting to race ..." and a substantial fine.

JMO of course, but it does seem a rather fair result.

[biff 2,158]

1 hour ago, Leggy said:

Well it's D-day for Moods. This will be an interesting decision. While the hoof supplement explanation seems rather implausible, unlike the Hope/O'B/Kav/Brennan cases, there has been no sign of any evidence of high priced bottles of supplements, pre-raceday drips, or dodgy characters hovering around. Then you have the added complication of the stewards illegally splitting the sample. In the absence of a plausible alternative explanation or any other evidence of administration, could the decision rest on the question of whether or not the high levels themselves are sufficient evidence?

Leggy, your opinion? if the levels achieved were delivered accidently by the strapper who came forward and announced he was feeding 4 times the suggested amounts, would this not constitute massive neglect?  I was foreman in the premises Moody now occupies, I fed 40 horses twice per day on an individual feed basis, for 4 years........the buck stopped with me, however should we have had a positive it would have been the boss that copped it, this stable, and another in the news seem to have a blame shifting mentality......maybe I'm just an old fashioned, silly old fogie, but christ almighty, where's accountability. In my opinion massive neglect is as culpable as the other defence.

[Trump 2,741]

One horse (Lidari) amongst 100's of runners from the stable and countless swabs which all but Lidari's were negative. The horse finished 2nd. The swab procedures were wrong and a stable hand has admitted he was at fault. This will end up as a Fine for Moody - and rightly so. It is not comparable to the Kav/O'Brien cases, where a Vet was heavily involved. 

[Leggy 4,067]

To be honest Biff, as far as the NZ rules are concerned, I'm confused about that. I'm hoping the Moody decision will make both that and the science behind the aforementioned backflip clearer. We also have the LAO/Scott hearing today do we not?

[Leggy 4,067]

Well Biff, looks like the Availa explanation got appropriate short shrift in the decision and the trainer was held accountable for administration which should allay your concerns, but as suggested in my post this morning, no real evidence to make the intentional use of a PED stick. Will they put him out or just a substantial fine?

[Midget 4,489]

Huh ??

You sure you read that decision Leggy ?