Moody changing stories

[GONSTA 1,148]

 

 

 

eading horse trainer Peter Moody had presented a revised version of the supplement-feeding regime for his horse, Lidari, his lawyer revealed on the opening day of his cobalt hearing. 

Earlier this year Moody supplied Racing Victoria investigators with a complete list of supplements given to his imported stayer, Lidari, who returned a cobalt reading of 400micrograms per litre after running second in last year's Turnbull Stakes. 

RVL veterinary surgeons immediately carried out trials on the feed that the trainer said he was giving the horse.

However those trials, carried out on five ageing mares, are now redundant following Moody's revised version. The Caulfield trainer initially told stewards he was using just 9.7micrograms per day of Availa (a feed supplement) on Lidari, but after consulting two employees Moody now says he was using closer to 50micrograms. 

Moody's barrister, Matthew Stirling said at the opening of the case before the Racing Appeals and Disciplinary Board that the trainer of champion mare Black Caviar would be pleading not guilty to all charges, for presentation and administration of cobalt. 

"Stewards did not ask the right questions," Stirling said. 

"Who was the person feeding Lidari back in the spring of 2014? None of the stewards asked Mr Moody."

Racing Victoria called an expert witness, Dr Martin Wainscott, who appeared via Skype from Dubai.  Under cross examination, Dr Wainscott was asked by Stirling whether the new amount of Availa would affect the levels of cobalt detected in the horse, to which Wainscott replied: "A small amount."

In outlining his case, Stirling said that staff at Moody's stable described Lidari as a vicious and difficult horse to deal with and said it was very hard to give the imported stayer a stomach drench. To handle the powerful stallion, Moody needed two staff members with him. 

 

 

http://m.smh.com.au/sport/horseracing/cobalt-hearing-peter-moody-revises-story-on-racehorse-feeding-regime-20151214-glnf66.html#ixzz3uLTHblmy

[scooby3051 10,863]

Healthy debate on this topic is wanted and encouraged... school boy name calling and childish shyte is not and posters who go there will be thrown out...cheers.

[GONSTA 1,148]

 

 

If you didn't see my reply on the old thread Sheriff you will find Moody's positive is higher than 3 of O'Briens 4 so there goes that theory...

Edited December 15, 2015 by scooby3051

[Midget 4,489]

Irrelevant really.

Moody had one single positive amongst dozens of winners.

The other alleged offenders had multiple positives, and significant money changed hands for bags of IV "vitamins".

Moody had no known ( as yet ) relationship with Brennan, and there's no money trail there either.

Moody's single positive falls within known scientific levels ( urine not serum ) post administration of VAM or Hemo 15.

I think most learned people expect Moods to get a substantial fine for presenting a horse to race with a drug in its body.

I personally don't agree with Moody's defense and think it'll fail scientific scrutiny, but I also think he can create considerable doubt around these charges, and I hope he walks with a fine. 

 

[GONSTA 1,148]

Just now, Midget said:

Irrelevant really.

Moody had one single positive amongst dozens of winners.

The other alleged offenders had multiple positives, and significant money changed hands for bags of IV "vitamins".

Moody had no known ( as yet ) relationship with Brennan, and there's no money trail there either.

Moody's single positive falls within known scientific levels ( urine not serum ) post administration of VAM or Hemo 15.

I think most learned people expect Moods to get a substantial fine for presenting a horse to race with a drug in its body.

I personally don't agree with Moody's defense and think it'll fail scientific scrutiny, but I also think he can create considerable doubt around these charges, and I hope he walks with a fine. 

 

So it doesn't make you suspicious when it  was his main 'group 1' staying horse that returned the positive? He may have had dozens of winners but that's down to sheer numbers more than anything. We all know this stuff was good for the stayers as results show, we also know Lidari hit career peak form when on the cobalt juice and we also know he was pretty legless when racing clean in the Autumn. 

If you honestly think he's innocent then good on you but I struggle to share your views on it obviously. There's some massive money to be made in these big group 1 races and it all seems far to coincidental to me to be an accident.

How many group 1/2 runners did Moody have in the spring of 2014 Sheriff and how many winners? I don't have the time to find those answers but I'm sure if he had lots of winners you will let me know.

[Midget 4,489]

No it doesn't make me suspicious because he only had one single positive amongst all those winners and place getters.

If he was engaging in some form of major PED abuse you'd reasonably expect a lot more positives, particularly with retrospective testing, and you almost certainly find other drugs turning up that are used to counterbalance the effects of cobalt.

None of that happened so I'm happy to listen to his explanation.

As I've said though a reading around 400 is quite hard to defend ( until two days ago we were led to believe the reading was about 240 ) and the defense he's running for a 400 +ve will be shredded by the prosecutions expert witnesses. On that basis you can probably expect the worst, and I guess that'll make you deliriously happy, because apparently that's the sort of person you appear to be.

[Leggy 4,076]

Does anyone know what the actual urine cobalt readings were in this case? http://www.harnesslink.com/News/Blood-supplement-leaves-Walkinshaw-out-on-a-limb

[Midget 4,489]

1 hour ago, Leggy said:

Does anyone know what the actual urine cobalt readings were in this case? http://www.harnesslink.com/News/Blood-supplement-leaves-Walkinshaw-out-on-a-limb

What an extraordinary tale.

I'd love to hear the "other side of the story" to give it some balance

[GONSTA 1,148]

2 hours ago, Midget said:

No it doesn't make me suspicious because he only had one single positive amongst all those winners and place getters.

If he was engaging in some form of major PED abuse you'd reasonably expect a lot more positives, particularly with retrospective testing, and you almost certainly find other drugs turning up that are used to counterbalance the effects of cobalt.

None of that happened so I'm happy to listen to his explanation.

As I've said though a reading around 400 is quite hard to defend ( until two days ago we were led to believe the reading was about 240 ) and the defense he's running for a 400 +ve will be shredded by the prosecutions expert witnesses. On that basis you can probably expect the worst, and I guess that'll make you deliriously happy, because apparently that's the sort of person you appear to be.

Your right it does make me happy, the sooner these drug cheats get banned the better IMO. 

It's no surprise to me to see Moody's 'top class' horses going rather badly this season either.

14 starters at G1 level for no wins or placings.

16 starters at G2 for 1 win and 1 placing.

14 starters at G3 for 3 wins.

 

When you take into account his record over previous seasons it sure does make the cynic in me wonder what those horses have been on. 

Now I've been thru all the results from the 2014 melbourne spring carnival results and I'm struggling to find all these winners and placegetters your talking about, apart from Dissident who wasn't running over a staying trip who had a win and a placing, apart from him it seems Lidari and Brambles had some massive form transformations, and once again you cannot deny the fact Lidari hit a massive career peak and went terrible once the cobalt news was reported. I'm sure your smart enough to work out cobalt works a lot better on stayers than any sprinter or middle distance horse, just like EPO is more likely to help an athlete over a longer distance than the 100 or 200m sprint. 

[Midget 4,489]

I don't think I need any help with my physiology and or haemotology thanks.

You're determined to make a mountain out of a molehill but as you'll have noticed I generally support all licencees, unless they're guilty of a heinous crime involving drugs or direct harm to another person.

I thus won't give you the privilege of fueling your fire any further thanks, but I might just risk giving you one smidgen of advice.

If you haven't been there and done that as a trainer or jockey, or been a paying owner over a long period, you're probably living in an ignorant world and your ignorance is moulding your cynicism.

That's your context as I see it, ignorance, but do feel free to expand on your own background to validate and justify your apparent hatred of Moods, Jonah, et al....

 

[Guest 2Admin2]

Gonsta - Moody's overall winners per starts is no different between this season and last season.

Currently sixth on the Melbourne Premiership and third overall in Victoria.

4th overall in Australia.

[GONSTA 1,148]

2 minutes ago, 2Admin2 said:

Gonsta - Moody's overall winners per starts is no different between this season and last season.

That's because of sheer numbers more than anything else, of course when you have the number of horse's that he trains your going to get a few winners, how did he go in the Melbourne Spring carnival this year with all the scrutiny over him currently. Apart from Kinglike I'm struggling to think of many top class horses he's had winners with? 

Surely the group statistics of this season says it all, and if your going to dope a horse on cobalt your not going to target a 30k mid week race are you, your going to try and win a big race, as we know big race wins get new owners and horses to the stable, something Mark Kavanagh experienced this year with his $600 in frozen stakes from the spring carnival. Then there was the transformation of mid summer music and Manighar a few years back when he could do no wrong, yet this year alarm bells must be ringing even for the true believers.

[Michael Roustoby 292]

4 hours ago, Midget said:

As I've said though a reading around 400 is quite hard to defend ( until two days ago we were led to believe the reading was about 240 ) and the defense he's running for a 400 +ve will be shredded by the prosecutions expert witnesses. On that basis you can probably expect the worst, and I guess that'll make you deliriously happy, because apparently that's the sort of person you appear to be.

They did tell us some time back that his A Sample was 390 and B sample 410. Heres an article from August:

https://www.racing.com/news/2015-08-28/moody-cobalt-blown-out-of-proportion

The case for Moody will probably fail at the RAD board but im not so sure the Civil court will convict him of deliberate administration.

The only evidence they have is the Positive which is enough but it maybe a weak leg to stand on when it comes to a court without racing people steering the ship.

All he'll have to do is muddy the waters and create reasonable doubt. Without supporting evidence a conviction may be hard.

The underworld in Melbourne thrived in the late 90s early 00's from the wall of silence. People were shot in the middle of  busy streets but nobody "saw anything" and alot of murders to this day remain unsolved. Police knew who did it but had no murder weapon,witness' or hard evidence to back it up.

Peter had a positive but if there is no evidence of him purchasing it,no evidence of anyone administering it or no witness' to the crime did it happen? 

Possibly a case of him being more clever than his mates who left a  messy trail a blind man could follow.

 

[Guest 2Admin2]

1 hour ago, GONSTA said:

That's because of sheer numbers more than anything else, of course when you have the number of horse's that he trains your going to get a few winners, how did he go in the Melbourne Spring carnival this year with all the scrutiny over him currently. Apart from Kinglike I'm struggling to think of many top class horses he's had winners with? 

Surely the group statistics of this season says it all, and if your going to dope a horse on cobalt your not going to target a 30k mid week race are you, your going to try and win a big race, as we know big race wins get new owners and horses to the stable, something Mark Kavanagh experienced this year with his $600 in frozen stakes from the spring carnival. Then there was the transformation of mid summer music and Manighar a few years back when he could do no wrong, yet this year alarm bells must be ringing even for the true believers.

You are selectively reading what I posted.  His winners to starts hasn't changed.  With regard to the Spring Carnival as Midget will attest large stables from time to time go through periods of rebuilds in terms of stock.  As you yourself said his total numbers in work haven't changed significantly however the quality and/or experience of that stock may have.

However you seem to want to bag him regardless of what the facts and statistics are showing.

[Leggy 4,076]

Peter Moody's excuse for Lidari's elevated cobalt levels is 'hopeless', Racing Victoria stewards say

Posted about 7 hours ago

Photo: 'Hopeless' ... Racing Victoria stewards are not convinced by Peter Moody's excuses. (Getty Images: Robert Cianflone, file photo)

Related Story: Peter Moody's cobalt crisis

Related Story: Moody pleads not guilty to treating horse with cobalt

Map: Melbourne 3000

Trainer Peter Moody's belated story blaming a hoof treatment for illegal levels of cobalt in a horse is "hopeless", an inquiry has heard.

Jeff Gleeson QC, barrister for Racing Victoria stewards, said the Racing Appeals and Disciplinary Board should not believe the story.

"We say you won't believe this story," Gleeson said on Wednesday.

Moody has pleaded not guilty to three charges after Lidari returned levels of 380 micrograms per litre of urine and 410mcg, which is well above the legal threshold of 200mcg.

Moody's barrister Matthew Stirling has told the board Lidari was given Availa, an oral treatment to help horses with shelly or cracked hooves, in the lead-up to his second in the 2014 Turnbull Stakes.

Stirling has said tests on the bag of Availa used on Lidari showed higher cobalt levels than stated by the manufacturer.

Gleeson said the September advice from the Moody stable about Availa and its administration as part of the horse's feeding regime was completely at odds with what stewards were told in January and February.

"It defies belief that Mr Moody's stable would, for months on end, administer a hoof powder at seven times the quantity recommended by the manufacturer," Gleeson said.

"We say that you'll find that the belated story is hopeless and transparently does not explain the amount of Availa that Lidari was receiving in October 2014."

He said even if the board believed the story, the cobalt level recorded by Lidari was extremely high and cannot be explained by even higher than recommended doses of Availa.

AAP

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/horseracing/cobalt-hearings-peter-moodys-staff-blamed-for-high-readings-20151216-glpceb.html

[Midget 4,489]

You'll not the defense attributes the high reading to the feeding regime AND a vitamin injection, presumably administered race day.

I think we can presume that injection was VB12 and therein lies a reasonable defense, except that he'll be found guilty of administering an injection race day and presenting a horse to race with a drug in its system.

[Leggy 4,076]

I haven't yet seen any detail on the when, what, how much of the injection but I agree if it was something like 10-12mls of VAM, say 4 hours prior to race time, that would be a plausible explanation for the levels recorded. I'm wondering if the stewards failed to investigate that possibility, or if it were not admitted at the time so as to not incriminate themselves on a potential race day administration charge. The hoof supplement argument alone seems less plausible, perhaps hopeless as the stewards have said, but might add to the case for the injection achieving those levels.

Looks like he has a strong argument on the procedural issue with the B sample as well. Interesting to see where that goes.

[Leggy 4,076]

This is not looking good for the RV stewards. Evidently, the A sample was never tested due to insufficient volume and the stewards tampered with the B sample, splitting it so two independent tests could be run but both from the same B sample.

https://www.racenet.com.au/news/118376/Moody-counsel-secures-release-of-cobalt-testing-emails

[Jefferson 207]

At least we are seeing progress, ever so slow, in Australia, but not a word about the status of the NZ charge laid. Perhaps they are waiting for Rome to be built!!

[Los Lobos 139]

17 minutes ago, Jefferson said:

At least we are seeing progress, ever so slow, in Australia, but not a word about the status of the NZ charge laid. Perhaps they are waiting for Rome to be built!!

If RIU at least made a statement as to where the inquiry was at, people would feel that it hasn't been swept under the carpet. It is their lack of comment that has people concerned. The question being asked is  "Are these fish too big to fry".  Always the optimist,  I hope not,  as i still want to believe there is enough integrity to satisfy those that are waiting to see results. It is all about fairness at the end of the day as well as concern for the animals welfare. 

[WhoKnows 791]

Am I right in saying that the RIU seem to be waiting for what happens in Australia before handing down penalties for the NZ cases?

If so, then why do they not feel capable of making their own decisions regardless of what happens over the ditch or do they have to have some rule they have to adhere to?

[Robert Best 175]

Try gutless and incompetent

[elo 106]

From NZTR website

 

News

News In Brief

17 December 2015, 3:26 p.m.

Solid work from Derby placegetter

Group One performer Sound Proposition is on target for an overdue return to racing.

He furthered his preparation with an exhibition gallop at Matamata on Wednesday and ended his work with a final 600 metres in 34.12.

“He’s had immaturity issues so we gave him a long break and he’ll run at Ellerslie on Boing Day,” co-trainer Andrew Scott said. “It will be exciting to see him back to the races.”

Sound Proposition has won two of his six starts and hasn’t raced since he finished third behind Mongolian Khan and Volkstok’n’barrell in the New Zealand Derby.

[departed 155]

I saw Moody interviewed on one of the racing channels here when he was charged with administering treatment on race day - a clay poultice to the horses legs.  Moody accepted full responsibility for the actions of one of his staff members.  Hard to see why things have changed and why he thinks we all have such short memories.

[kdt 291]

Hi Midget and Leggy, really appreciate your insight/expertise into the issues around this case. Just a question (and maybe this is not fair to ask as its probably not this simple) given what Racing Victoria have been up to in regards to the samples what chance Moody now has a "get out of jail" card handed to him?