Carry Forwards $$$$

[Albert i 19]

How did the punting public allow the NZ TAB to take betting pools and use them anyway they deem fit.

 They have gone from ; paying out to the closest ; A percentage paying the pool ; Bonus weekends to starting pools as enticements [Triple Trios and early Quaddies].

 Now , there is no pretence , They just use it anyway they want to . No total of how much is available each month . No info on any amounts, spent or left over .

 I protest by wagering on fixed odds or terminating pools.  I cant believe there has not been a public uproar . O/c I cant think of a platform not controlled by paid race industry employees to air these views.

 Can you

[Bimbo 734]

The punting public in New Zealand is full of fools who line up everyday and place bets on quaddies. etc. where they have absolutely no chance of making any money.  Just look at the Mandurah and Northam dog races.  People are betting into non terminating quaddie pools that might not even get to $20.  Everyday someone is making a donation.  The non guaranteed Australian galloping quaddies all seem to have hundreds of dollars in the carry forward on a daily basis.  You can pretty much do what you like with customers like this and they won't mind.  The way they keep coming back for more just proves that.

[Cunnamulla 73]

You are absolutely right ... it is nothing more than legalised theft. The people betting into a particular pool deserve to be paid that money back, minus TAB deductions, no matter what the result. The TAB is a supposed to be a vehicle to place your bets, not to hold your money against your will and do what they like with it. It is simple to put a count-back system in place. The customers betting into a pool should be competing against each other to win that pool, not having to worry if it's all going to be taken away by the TAB.

[chelseacol 2,488]

IF the carry forward $ is being used to seed guaranteed first 4 dividends on obscure aussie races - due to commingling not being sorted, well what a rort.

I could just about live with bonus weekends as at least it appeared there was some transparency (although I could never figure how dogs got $ to be honest), but now it is another nail in the coffin

[Albert i 19]

10 hours ago, chelseacol said:

IF the carry forward $ is being used to seed guaranteed first 4 dividends on obscure aussie races - due to commingling not being sorted, well what a rort.

I could just about live with bonus weekends as at least it appeared there was some transparency (although I could never figure how dogs got $ to be honest), but now it is another nail in the coffin

This is exactly what $$$ are being used for .

[Albert i 19]

I suspect , that the millions lost by the Tab when they  guaranteed the first three Triple Trios, has well and truly been recouped.

 Why wouldn,t it . I,m sure this can now be justified as a legitimate use of carry over funds and with no public scrutiny available , why wouldn,t they.

[50 win no. 1 106]

I have raised this constantly. It is, in my opinion , illegal and outside the racing act to use monies from betting pools for other purposes. All pools should be resulted.

 

[Traka 115]

So there was nearly 30k carried forward after the quaddie at trentham today,

Carried to where?? or when?

[Albert i 19]

13 minutes ago, Traka said:

So there was nearly 30k carried forward after the quaddie at trentham today,

Carried to where?? or when?

+ $12,000 from the first4

[Albert i 19]

After early quaddie not struck at addington dogs tonight , TV1 presenter comments that, [ hopefully the pool will carry forward to the 2nd quaddie ]

 Seems, even the trackside presenters think something stinks . 

 And NO ; It dosnt . The tab takes the money.

 Wish I knew his name so I could inform him .

[Bimbo 734]

3 hours ago, Traka said:

So there was nearly 30k carried forward after the quaddie at trentham today,

Carried to where?? or when?

Hopefully to the Dash For Cash and Spion Rose.

[Albert i 19]

1 hour ago, Albert i said:

After early quaddie not struck at addington dogs tonight , TV1 presenter comments that, [ hopefully the pool will carry forward to the 2nd quaddie ]

 Seems, even the trackside presenters think something stinks . 

 And NO ; It dosnt . The tab takes the money.

 Wish I knew his name so I could inform him .

Both quaddies not struck . Its a JOKE!

[Sickopunter 403]

1. Why can't/don't quaddies jackpot into the next quaddie.

2. Why cant any jackpots from the end of the meeting just go onto the first race of the next meeting of that code? Or maybe the first race of that track the next time they race, or something like that?

[puha 2,177]

Stop putting money into rubbish Aussie bush meetings have a 100 k terminating pick 6 each Saturday and a 50 k terminating quaddie on the last 4 races of said 100k pick 6 so you get two bites of the cherry . Interest will be well above average.

[aquaman 1,352]

Why the hell should some flea with a small percentage ticket, say 10% scoop the entire pool. They should only get the value of their ticket. I for one do not want anything less than a full unit taking the pool.  In fact get rid of percentage betting altogether, it was a bad move by the tab in the first place. All it doe's is encourage smaller pools.

[Bimbo 734]

Bringing back commingling would pretty much solve all of these problems.

We got a bunch of crap about how they were working hard on getting commingling sorted.  After months and months, there's still no result.  We don't know what the problem really is and when it will be resolved.  Why can't we get a straight answer on where things stand and if and when they can be sorted?  Who is working on this and what sort of work are they doing?  Negotiating with the Australians, wining and dining them, getting on their knees and begging, offering to match the lower Australian takeouts?

The NZ TAB treat their customers very badly.  The customers are the ones funding the million dollar a year pay packet for the top and hundreds of thousands for the GM's.  Tell us what the problem is please Mr TAB.  We have a right to know.

If we know commingling isn't coming back we can all just set up accounts with tab.com.au and get on with things knowing we can at least get a decent collect to reward us for the difficult task of picking four winners or a 1,2,3,4 result.

[Albert i 19]

I think % betting encourages punters to spread bets ; result ; smaller pools over more bet types and meetings. This does not suit me but as a entertainment mode of betting it is great.

 All pools should be jackpotted or terminated, not used by the Tab in any way, shape or form.

 If anyone can suggest a way to stop this form of thievery i,m in boots and all.

[themagicman 116]

On 12/6/2015, 8:28:03, aquaman said:

Why the hell should some flea with a small percentage ticket, say 10% scoop the entire pool. They should only get the value of their ticket. I for one do not want anything less than a full unit taking the pool.  In fact get rid of percentage betting altogether, it was a bad move by the tab in the first place. All it doe's is encourage smaller pools.

I've met a few fleas along my life journey. Men that lack the courage of their convictions and spend their life avoiding facing their responsibilities. I have contempt for such men.

I can honestly say I've never made a connection between punters who take percentage bets and fleas. What sort of person could make such a comparison? 

[lecithin 429]

21 minutes ago, Albert i said:

 If anyone can suggest a way to stop this form of thievery i,m in boots and all.

It's fairly easy - open an account with an offshore bookmaker that doesn't do that and stop betting with the TAB.

[themagicman 116]

Just checked out this quaddie result from a dog meeting tonight.

The quaddie was not struck so the entire quaddie pool was carried forward. How much you ask?

$20...yes that's correct. The pool was $20

We live in exciting times. Who is responsible for this farcical situation?

Quinella	1, 4	15.10
Trifecta	1:4:2	110.60
First4	1:4:2:5	314.40
Quaddie		Not struck

Jackpot:
Quaddie Carry Forward $20.72 

 

[Sickopunter 403]

On 6/12/2015, 4:32:13, kakama said:

I do not see the need for quaddies to jackpot, unless of course, nobody has a winning % of result.

A few times I have had a good collect of quad, only to find that my small % was the only one on the winners!!

I think div should have been inflated, I should have scooped the pool!

All this carry forward shit can not be legal, I was the only one who picked the 4 winners? What am I missing

Tab are so stupid, because if they had any brains, they would make all bets terminated.

If I am sitting at home on a sat night, and see only $800 quad or trfecta pool, I just give up, they get none of my money.

If I knew that the whole amount is terminated, I would probably have a go, see if I can scoop the pool!

What could they loose? It would cost them nothing to trial it, after 2 months they would know the results.

How many others would do the same? Plenty I would say. Once again tab, you are just digging yourself a big hole

I personally only bet the pools that jackpot. So I am in a different camp there. I like the jackpots. What I don;t like is the fact that we don't know where the jackpot money ends up. And we have a right to know. It should stay within the code, if not the track that it jackpotted from.

[Sickopunter 403]

On 4/12/2015, 8:18:10, Cunnamulla said:

You are absolutely right ... it is nothing more than legalised theft. The people betting into a particular pool deserve to be paid that money back, minus TAB deductions, no matter what the result. The TAB is a supposed to be a vehicle to place your bets, not to hold your money against your will and do what they like with it. It is simple to put a count-back system in place. The customers betting into a pool should be competing against each other to win that pool, not having to worry if it's all going to be taken away by the TAB.

How is it different to Lotto? They don't terminate every draw and those bigger pools get people interested. The difference is at least you know where it is jackpotting to.

[themagicman 116]

6 hours ago, Sickopunter said:

How is it different to Lotto? They don't terminate every draw and those bigger pools get people interested. The difference is at least you know where it is jackpotting to.

Comparing lotto pools that contain many millions of dollars with quaddie pools that contain pools under $1000 and as low as $20 is stretching a very long bow. If I apply your logic with jackpotting quaddie pools as is the status quo, one question rushes to the surface. How is that working up until now? Answer has no ambiguity whatsoever . It's not working,in fact it's failing about as badly as it's possible to fail.

Only ignorant mugs that don't have the brains they were born with would bet into the majority of quaddie pools. The pools are conclusive evidence of that. If these pools are not going to be made terminating then the NZ TAB should remove the quaddie option off the bet type list. Getting four winners in a row is a punting achievement. There are so many variables and combinations that when you as a quaddie punter nail one you must receive an appropriate risk v reward pay out.  If that fails to occur it quickly becomes a sham. What we have at present is an embarrassing sham that the NZ TAB are happy to just sit back in their premium quality leather chairs and do nothing about. It's farcical business mismanagement. In the real business world, those responsible would be shown two things.

1) Their employment contract especially the clauses pertaining to bringing the company into disrepute.

2) The door.

[Bimbo 734]

4 minutes ago, themagicman said:

What we have at present is an embarrassing sham that the NZ TAB are happy to just sit back in their premium quality leather chairs and do nothing about. It's farcical business mismanagement. In the real business world, those responsible would be shown two things.

1) Their employment contract especially the clauses pertaining to bringing the company into disrepute.

2) The door.

That wont happen.  The way they are running the show has got the backing of the minister.

[Sickopunter 403]

10 hours ago, themagicman said:

Comparing lotto pools that contain many millions of dollars with quaddie pools that contain pools under $1000 and as low as $20 is stretching a very long bow. If I apply your logic with jackpotting quaddie pools as is the status quo, one question rushes to the surface. How is that working up until now? Answer has no ambiguity whatsoever . It's not working,in fact it's failing about as badly as it's possible to fail.

Only ignorant mugs that don't have the brains they were born with would bet into the majority of quaddie pools. The pools are conclusive evidence of that. If these pools are not going to be made terminating then the NZ TAB should remove the quaddie option off the bet type list. Getting four winners in a row is a punting achievement. There are so many variables and combinations that when you as a quaddie punter nail one you must receive an appropriate risk v reward pay out.  If that fails to occur it quickly becomes a sham. What we have at present is an embarrassing sham that the NZ TAB are happy to just sit back in their premium quality leather chairs and do nothing about. It's farcical business mismanagement. In the real business world, those responsible would be shown two things.

1) Their employment contract especially the clauses pertaining to bringing the company into disrepute.

2) The door.

You are referring to ridiculous quaddies and f4s in nothing meetings in Australia. Im referring to jackpot f4s and quaddies and jackpots on races people actually bet on.

No matter what changes you make a fool and his money are soon parted. Anyone betting into the ridiculously small pools is getting exactly what they deserve. The only impact is that they lose their money at a quicker rate.

What I am saying that I like is the fact that when pools jackpot there is dead money which gives the punter a better chance as there is a ratio of "live" to "dead" money which appeals to me. If you can get your read around that. Im not interested in terminating pools so much as there is no dead money and therefore you are still paying absurdly high takeout rates without advantage.

I can see both sides of the argument for and against terminating. All I am saying is that I am on the other. I would have no problem with the TAB terminating pools on silly little Aussie meetings with no interest. Or even terminating pools on the last race of a day (for f4). But not terminating every pool. The analogy I made with lotto in the way I meant it stands.