Noms and acceptance fees

[chelseacol 2,488]

I know this is old news - but our syndicate manager forwarded a copy this morning of a NZTR invoice for a horse which started twice in November.

The noms and acceptance fee for each start were $217 and $316 respectively. Plus riding fees etc..... Trainer and transport costs etc to come....

Jesus wept.

Can someone tell me what happens to these fees? NZTR keep them - just general income, or passed to the clubs...???

 

[gubellini 3,994]

NZTR have taken racing back about 100 years to the good old sweepstake days.

[Huey 2,037]

Such a waste. I can understand the reasoning behind them if you scratch your horse from a race, but paying these to line up for $7k etc is just appalling. To my mind on industry days it would make no difference racing for $7k paying for them or $5k without them. 

 

Bring back Free Racing I say, won't happen though as they whole strategy is top down based instead of building a foundation.

[eljay 1,719]

One area where Harness has Gallops whacked!

[Tatura 121]

Why do you think some are going to Australia. Even Australia's smaller meetings pay $270 back to 9th, plus pay all fees. Only syndicates, and studs racing their progeny,will survive in NZ and those pricks at the top still get their fat salaries. The Govt needs to step up to the plate and assist with stakes instead of worrying about changing flags etc. This industry employs a lot of people and helps the economy in general. Why do you think Trainers and owners have to sell overseas after winning trials. With the small numbers of top horses staying to race in NZ our stakes races will not be recognized in a few years.

[JOJAN 29]

Chelseacol, What rating is this horse and what was the overall stake the horse was racing for.

[chevy86 2,704]

Should be no noms and acceptance fees and if there is a shortfall then lower the stakes (not maidens)--remember most of the runners ( and their idiot owners) are "losers" on the day.

[Huey 2,037]

1 hour ago, Tatura said:

Why do you think some are going to Australia. Even Australia's smaller meetings pay $270 back to 9th, plus pay all fees. Only syndicates, and studs racing their progeny,will survive in NZ and those pricks at the top still get their fat salaries. The Govt needs to step up to the plate and assist with stakes instead of worrying about changing flags etc. This industry employs a lot of people and helps the economy in general. Why do you think Trainers and owners have to sell overseas after winning trials. With the small numbers of top horses staying to race in NZ our stakes races will not be recognized in a few years.

I don't agree the government needs to step in , they have in the past and what they have assisted with has been wasted.

It's not the size of the stakes that make racing a horse sustainable to my mind , it's the allocation of stakes and the plan behind it, sadly we appear to be lacking in both in NZ.

I can't see how a reduction in Prem/Feature meeting stakes to a level that would support some form of free racing wouldn't benefit racing , particularly at the lower end. Perhaps the problem is no one is willing to give it the time to have an impact that such an approach requires. 

Would those fields at Trentham on Saturday be any different if they were run for $5-$7.5k less?

[Leggy 4,076]

I quite agree Huey. The government provided duty relief in 2006 which is now worth ~$50m p.a. That's about $27m to the thoroughbred code that we would not otherwise have. The clearly stated business plan of NZTR at the time was that some of that additional funding would go to free racing. They applied that strategy and it was associated with increases in field sizes, total number of starters and turnover. When additional expected funding from the NZRB failed to eventuate, it was the first thing to get the chop. Why? For no explicable reason that I could get from the chiefs. Just that they preferred to apply the remaining funding inclusive of the cost of free racing to headline stakes.

Since then, we have the government gifting substantial growth in returns from wagering on sports and overseas racing events, as well as a further substantial gift of much increased pokie revenue.

Now as much as I want to see this game thriving, as a taxpayer, I would be horrified if the government dipped further into taxpayer funds to subsidise the racing industry. It would surely not make good business sense, let alone political sense.

[Midget 4,489]

Leggy is of course 100% in his analysis, as he normally is (except when I disagree with him of course).

NZ racing is getting exactly what it deserves and you all know why, because you're collectively spineless, with the exception of the jockeys who are remarkably well organized and have flexed their muscles in recent years to good effect.

As I've said before, it's going to get a lot worse yet so clench your butt cheeks and prepare for the pain to come.

 

[chelseacol 2,488]

4 hours ago, JOJAN said:

Chelseacol, What rating is this horse and what was the overall stake the horse was racing for.

r75 $17,500 and $30,000

[Leggy 4,076]

4 minutes ago, Midget said:

Leggy is of course 100% in his analysis, as he normally is (except when I disagree with him of course).

NZ racing is getting exactly what it deserves and you all know why, because you're collectively spineless, with the exception of the jockeys who are remarkably well organized and have flexed their muscles in recent years to good effect.

As I've said before, it's going to get a lot worse yet so clench your butt cheeks and prepare for the pain to come

Yep, I think most in the industry must just like a good rogering, especially the long, slow and painful type that we are getting. Personally, my masochistic leanings are not well developed, so I keep saying no. Somehow however, the abusers keep ignoring the handful of screams and drive on.

[JOJAN 29]

Chelseacol, R 75 $18500 has $11,560 to the winner, R 75 $30,000 has a winning stake of $18,750, surely the entry fees you paid in comparison  to winning stake is not bad, I'm not condoning the entry fees, we would all like to race for no entry fees , just to let anybody else that is interested could you publish the list of costs for the two races, and stakes the horse won.

[Huey 2,037]

37 minutes ago, JOJAN said:

Chelseacol, R 75 $18500 has $11,560 to the winner, R 75 $30,000 has a winning stake of $18,750, surely the entry fees you paid in comparison  to winning stake is not bad, I'm not condoning the entry fees, we would all like to race for no entry fees , just to let anybody else that is interested could you publish the list of costs for the two races, and stakes the horse won.

Do you race a horse Jojan?

[JOJAN 29]

Yes , three.

[Huey 2,037]

1 hour ago, JOJAN said:

Yes , three.

OK so you have a fair idea of the costs involved then. So youre happy to go to the races to race for 30k odd and pay a nom acceptance fee for the privilege along with all other associated costs? Well basically put on the show and get one drink voucher and 15 mins in the presidents room at most clubs if you win the race and that's if you're lucky enough to get invited in. I'm not being nasty just interested in your point of view on this.

[JOJAN 29]

We own, train our team and are in it because we treat it as a sport and when we get a win or two and we do, we don.t go to the presidents room, we get the horses home then have a beer with our track rider and her family.

If you win a $30000 race in rating 75 your horse has won either 2 wins or 3, J have arranged syndicates over the years and the people involved have treated this game as a social thing and if they won a race it was a big night, the people who wanted to make a profit out of racing were not invited into the syndicates because they could not workout if they put in money each month they should get a return, sorry we are dealing with a animal who has no guarantees, if you talk about expenses on a hourly rate, and I have the utmost respect for them, is the jockeys, but before we get a heap of replies they are profeesionals who like us have very early days, transport people, gate staff are all needed, feed bills, farriers, etc, yes we know what it costs but the trainers , owners that we work with every morning work with these animals because they love doing it, yes there are issues but when you have trainers associations who won't do what they are paid for, club presidents who have phantom race meetings , yes there is problems, but like people on this site say, nothing will happen until everybody sticks together, getting back to the $30,000 race, we would like to win one and after paying everybody we would still have enough left to keep our small team ticking over so we can enjoy our SPORT.

 

[Huey 2,037]

7 hours ago, JOJAN said:

We own, train our team and are in it because we treat it as a sport and when we get a win or two and we do, we don.t go to the presidents room, we get the horses home then have a beer with our track rider and her family.

If you win a $30000 race in rating 75 your horse has won either 2 wins or 3, J have arranged syndicates over the years and the people involved have treated this game as a social thing and if they won a race it was a big night, the people who wanted to make a profit out of racing were not invited into the syndicates because they could not workout if they put in money each month they should get a return, sorry we are dealing with a animal who has no guarantees, if you talk about expenses on a hourly rate, and I have the utmost respect for them, is the jockeys, but before we get a heap of replies they are profeesionals who like us have very early days, transport people, gate staff are all needed, feed bills, farriers, etc, yes we know what it costs but the trainers , owners that we work with every morning work with these animals because they love doing it, yes there are issues but when you have trainers associations who won't do what they are paid for, club presidents who have phantom race meetings , yes there is problems, but like people on this site say, nothing will happen until everybody sticks together, getting back to the $30,000 race, we would like to win one and after paying everybody we would still have enough left to keep our small team ticking over so we can enjoy our SPORT.

 

Great point Jojan and I wish you well, don't know about you but does it not bother you paying for everything , running 4th or 5th or even 3rd at a race meeting then getting a bill for doing so from NZTR even though you supposedly won some $$s? Sport or no sport that's not right.

[elo 106]

I am also like Jojan BUT there is a slight difference, it gets right up my left and right nostril to know that some of my payments to NZTR support massive 6 figure salaries when most at the coalface receive a hell of a lot less for a hell of a lot more productive work.

[chelseacol 2,488]

12 hours ago, JOJAN said:

Chelseacol, R 75 $18500 has $11,560 to the winner, R 75 $30,000 has a winning stake of $18,750, surely the entry fees you paid in comparison  to winning stake is not bad, I'm not condoning the entry fees, we would all like to race for no entry fees , just to let anybody else that is interested could you publish the list of costs for the two races, and stakes the horse won.

The Tauranga race we actually scratched due to the track - cost $217 noms and acceptance, and $80.50 riders compensation. No transport costs for that one !

Avondale - $316 noms + $161 jockey. I don't have transport costs yet. Didn't finish top 5 so no stake money.

Training costs etc for the month - well you know what they will be.

Reading the rest of what you wrote about sport etc. Well I am only in the game for fun, and hopefully the thrill of a good horse, and the occasional win. Plus beer and punting. A few people on here know me, and are aware I love the thrill of a racetrack, and it is my favourite place to be. The financial return on horse ownership is not what motivates me. If it was I long ago would have given up owning horses.I would fit into one of your syndicates I think as I am laid back, generally roll with the punches as things go wrong with horses, and party like a lunatic when they go right.

BUT that does not mean I wont have a crack if I think costs are wrong, or the industry is not running itself properly. In this case I reckon the nom fees are excessive, and as elo said I reckon the admin at head office sucks up way too much out of the industry.

[Canelo 459]

I think an acceptance fee is warranted, to a point, but a nomination fee, what is the reasoning behind this? If you are balloted out you don't get acceptance fee back either am I right?. I agree with the point about collectively getting together and making small but important changes, I don't think those at the top will be losing any sleep over the blue collar guy paying through the nose to race a slow maiden. It's a case I think of them(suits) not facing any collective pressure to look after those at the base of the pyramid. 

 

[Huey 2,037]

32 minutes ago, Canelo said:

I think an acceptance fee is warranted, to a point, but a nomination fee, what is the reasoning behind this? If you are balloted out you don't get acceptance fee back either am I right?. I agree with the point about collectively getting together and making small but important changes, I don't think those at the top will be losing any sleep over the blue collar guy paying through the nose to race a slow maiden. It's a case I think of them(suits) not facing any collective pressure to look after those at the base of the pyramid. 

 

No I'm pretty sure if youre on the ballot you get you don't get charged , so long as you scratch before you make the field of course.

I just cannot see the reasoning for paying a nom or acceptance fee, I can understand a scratching fee but if you start you have to pay a nomination fee & acceptance fee as well as all of the costs associated with bringing your horse or getting your horse to the races, it just makes no sense. Be ok if they paid back to 10th or something and covered it, but paying to nominate your horse, well that shouldn't cost a lot  and your paying to hopefully make the TAB some $$ across the tote with your horse racing well it makes no sense to me.

This is of course without going into the already horrendous costs associated with registering a horse, leasing etc. $120 odd to name a horse ...pleaaasssse!

[Leggy 4,076]

2 hours ago, Huey said:

No I'm pretty sure if youre on the ballot you get you don't get charged , so long as you scratch before you make the field of course.

 

If you are on the ballot and scratch, you pay. If you don't make the field, you don't....I think.