jimsmith 224 Report post Posted November 3, 2015 and will newbies of recent times be lining up to have another go next year? The race it's self will always be huge and hyped to the max but I just wonder if results in recent years may in the long term turn more people off than on. I had a wager on fav Fame Game. Race not run to suit and was never at any stage a winning hope. I'm philosophical as always about such things. Got to be in to win and this year was not my year. Hopefully next year will be. Huge wins on Subzero,Vintage Crop,Think Big etc etc etc will see me lining up for life. Was still a fascinating race and loved the joy winning rider Michelle Payne displayed on her way back to scale and the love on display between her and strapper brother. I must admit it pisses me off when Trackside presenters say "the trainer / owner" will be delighted with that win. Then you look over at them and they look like it was just another day in the office. No such nonsense yesterday with Michelle Payne. She looked exactly how I think I'd look if I'd just won the lotto or my lifelong dream had just come true. It was fantastic to witness. That aside,I feel this year's Cup will have left a lot of people cold. Last year we saw the fav Admire Rakti die moments after the Cup finished. Araldo was spooked by a flag and reared,tragically breaking his leg. The wowzers were out in force. You also had some punters especially first time punters questioning why they were supporting a race / sport where two majestic animals had just paid the ultimate price. Then this year. People were lining up in droves to back the fav Fame Game who never at any point looked a chance of being in the finish. They had very little cause for excitement. Will all of them return next year? The winner was 100-1. You will always get outsiders winning races and most punters will just turn the page and move on to the next one. Will that be the case this year? I watched a first time punter on the TV news last night being filmed in a TAB. He was asked what he'd put his money on. He said number 15 and 19. Number 19 was Prince of Penzance. He was asked why. His answer was a classic. "They just seemed like good numbers". Good on him. He and many others will be back next year. I watched several previews of the Cup and most did not stay long on Prince of Penzance but spent hours on the others. One of the quotes I really appreciated this year came from Jimmy Cassidy having his last ride in the Cup. "Do I get a prize for staying on?". Obvious reference him and others being knocked for a row of shitcans by Frankie Dettori on Max Dynamite who appeared to confuse the Cup with the Easter Show bumper cars. Red Cadeaux breaking down so close to the finish was a nightmare. Seeing the huge green screen go up was worst case scenario. Here was a 10 year old horse who many had taken into their heart after three previous courageous placings in the great race seemingly about to meet his maker. Many would have just gone cold on that prospect. I'm delighted for the horse,it's connections and racing in general that it appears to be now on the road to recovery. I'm being totally honest when I say for me personally that was the highlight of my day yesterday. All of us will be back next year. We love the game and well appreciate the down sides but Red Cadeaux won't be back next year and I wonder how many of the punters on the fringe in recent years will line up for another go next year? Another point I feel compelled to make concerned the NZ presentation. Why bother? Our guys are ok but why have NZ presenters in a NZ studio when the cream of the well informed Australians are available to tell you all you need to know about their great race? What the hell were they thinking sending dog caller Mark Rosanowski with his large bottle of hair dye as the NZ TV racing representative? Please tell me he's not the best we have? I was cringing. Then before the meeting is even wrapped up we have a the new female studio presenter to mumble through and shake the hair out of her eyes. If that wasn't a determined call to everyone to all put your cue back in the rack then nothing is. I'm sure it will be the same next year. Why? Because Trackside know best. Ohokaman, Steve Paul, Centrofold and 5 others 8 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gubellini 3,995 Report post Posted November 3, 2015 Some good points jimsmith. When I saw Fame Game heavily bandaged in his forelegs the alarm bells started ringing for me. Went off him and plumped for the Irish hurdler Max Dynasty. Went down by half a length but only after Frankie had caused a fair bit of mayhem in the straight! jimsmith 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gubellini 3,995 Report post Posted November 3, 2015 Sorry Max Dynamite! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimsmith 224 Report post Posted November 3, 2015 Must admit I didn't put enough priority on the bandages Gubellini. I've been caught out by them previously. Got put off a heavily bandaged horse only to see it come out and win untouched by panels. I take it on board but the old grain of salt thing comes into play. On the subject of quotes. Happy to acknowledge I'm a wordy person who appreciates the importance of adverbs etc. I don't wish to be anal but if you have a TV presenter who is unable to find the appropriate adverb etc,then what's the point? The last race at fabulous Flemington yesterday was a prime example. We have a new Trackside presenter. Alesha or similar is her name. Chocolate teapot of a presenter if I've ever seen one. Offers absolutely nothing that even the old grannies don't already have. It's puzzling why she is even there. Can't possibly help with turnover so what is her role especially on such a huge day? Did someone feel it was appropriate to trot out a presenter that would result in viewers turning the TV off? Her quote of the day was priceless. Scarlet Billows had just won the last group race of the day. This will obviously dramatically increase the mares value. Ironically this mare is part owned by the Richards family who are also involved in the ownership of the 6.2 Million Dollar Melbourne Cup winner Prince Of Penzance. As a racehorse owner does it EVER get better than what it was for the Richards family on Melbourne Cup day? I'm sure at least some of the family,extended family,friends etc also got a piece of the 100-1. I wouldn't be able to sleep for weeks. Trackside presenter "Alesha" described it as a "good day" for the family. A good day? You must be farking joking? A good day for me is when the nerve in my spine does not pinch and cause me considerable discomfort. Yesterday must have been like the orgasmic day of all orgasmic days for the Richards family and "good" is the most appropriate word to describe the day? Oh well,the dog races from Wagga Wagga were about to start so it was probably a smart move to shift her from in front of the mirror to in front of the camera. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohokaman 5,825 Report post Posted November 3, 2015 Good stuff James. I'm not sure where they are getting this latest lot of "presenters" ( and I use the term loosely ) from but the queues at Countdown and Pak'nSave checkouts must be getting longer as there is obviously staff missing..... The Cup was a disaster for most. A Cup for the plodders I said. Jesus they walked...run in a tick over 3.23. Fame Game has run 3.12 in the Tenno Sho so it was obviously far too pedestrian for him. Money done cold. That last Quaddie paid $496,291 so I doubt too many people were ahead at the end of all that...... MS26 and jimsmith 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fitzy 143 Report post Posted November 3, 2015 No doubt a slowly run race which put paid to the chances of many "favoured" runners. Always a great spectacle though and hearty congrats to the owners trainers and jockey of the winner. Interesting to see that in what was rated by some as a very strong race form wise that it was an "old fashioned" Kiwi stayer that comes out on top. Maybe some of the "experts" are getting a bit carried away with the supposed superior form of the Europeans. As has been proven so many times find a nice type and give it some time and you can get a great result. trakdap, rosie one and elbow 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosie one 177 Report post Posted November 3, 2015 GO THE KIWIS Great to see the Kiwi bred beat those over priced euros henry30 and elbow 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdytdy 5,341 Report post Posted November 3, 2015 Was it a great Melbourne Cup? Whilst it provided a first win for a female rider in the race and a $101 outsider (4th) I would say it wasn't. It will be remembered for the two aforementioned points but it was inevitable that a female will ride a winner (Michelle won't be the last) and there have been winners paying in excess of $100.00 previously. The lack of pace in a slowly run race, on a biased track meant it was not a great Cup and won't be remembered as a great race itself. jimsmith 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richie 1,027 Report post Posted November 3, 2015 It annoys me when i hear a jockey say the pace was too slow so the race wasnt run to suit my horse.Every jockey can make the choice of moving forward to increase the pace but most choose not to.So dont use that as an excuse,just say i was outridden by other jockeys who knew what pace suited their horses. rosie one, henry30, Steve Paul and 5 others 8 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohokaman 5,825 Report post Posted November 3, 2015 After the carnage caused by Dettori yesterday, the fawning over overseas jockeys might quieten down too Ted... Should have been put out for six months instead of the slap he got..... elbow and jimsmith 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bimbo 734 Report post Posted November 3, 2015 2 hours ago, gubellini said: Some good points jimsmith. When I saw Fame Game heavily bandaged in his forelegs the alarm bells started ringing for me. Went off him and plumped for the Irish hurdler Max Dynasty. Went down by half a length but only after Frankie had caused a fair bit of mayhem in the straight! I would say that was the wrong strategy if you believe bandages mean anything. You should have laid Fame Game straight out if that was the case, especially with it being the favourite. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uriah Heap 481 Report post Posted November 3, 2015 29 minutes ago, Ohokaman said: After the carnage caused by Dettori yesterday, the fawning over overseas jockeys might quieten down too Ted... Should have been put out for six months instead of the slap he got..... I agree. One month for knocking out four or five horses is weak. Dettori thought he was in a rodeo. What they should have done is say, "We need to see you riding in Australia for one month, prior to any future ride in one of our big races." TOM(the other Molloy) 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
puha 2,177 Report post Posted November 3, 2015 If like to see European horses HAVE to line up in Australia at least ONCE before the cup in a lead up race it takes away from the great race that an Overseas jumper can make the field rundown the track in the Cup then disappear again. elbow 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohokaman 5,825 Report post Posted November 4, 2015 2 hours ago, richie said: It annoys me when i hear a jockey say the pace was too slow so the race wasnt run to suit my horse.Every jockey can make the choice of moving forward to increase the pace but most choose not to.So dont use that as an excuse,just say i was outridden by other jockeys who knew what pace suited their horses. That's a bit simplistic Richie. You could not expect a back runner to circle the field to put pace on in a race when they have never led in their lives...it just wouldn't happen. Particularly in a race worth $6m...... Too many horses in the race perhaps..? The likelihood is that the pace will be slack due to so many horses jostling for position, with jockeys trying to get them settled in a rhythm designed to preserve energy rather than expend it...... ivanthegreat, jimsmith and Belinda 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanthegreat 1,123 Report post Posted November 4, 2015 Aren't a couple of you guys a little tough on these mid week presenters ? After all they have to start somewhere and maybe with one race to go on MC day thats ok. I am one of the old farts that could't wait from the time the Best Bets got delivered at 3am to the dairy ( who found one missing ) till Saturday for either Ellerslie OR Alex Park. I just dont get the same Buzz anymore and I struggle to put my hand on it other than tooo much racing mid week from Wagga Wagga to Acot Park + 20 Dog meetings a day., 6 and 7 horse feilds at the trots and total domination by a trainer at Addington, Anyway, I guess the role of the presenter is to present the material content for our viewing I guess the area they could come in for critcism is in making selections or generally offering information that we may not find helpful............. but aren't they all guilty of that. When you think about it , it's a conflict of interest isn't it............ a good analogy would be racing up to a bookie at the valley to put $500 to win on something and the bookie says..... O'h no mate its drawn 18 and there an inside bias. I'd recommend you back number 3. Kching Kching Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimsmith 224 Report post Posted November 4, 2015 Hear what you're saying Ivan but I see things differently. My $$ are worth the same midweek as they are on the weekend. That aside the bulk of our biggest races are run midweek are they not? The race Concensus won yesterday at headquarters was a 70k feature WFA race. Yes I agree they need to start somewhere. How about trial meetings where nobody gives a shit if you keep putting the foot in your mouth. These people are for the most part not fit to be influencing punters where the put their money in a multi million dollar industry. Surely we deserve presenters that have substance to their rhetoric especially when the audience are not 88 year old ladies unsure what to put their $1 place bet on in the next $750 ankle biter race from Wallawallatomaroblackstump. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanthegreat 1,123 Report post Posted November 4, 2015 Jim I believe we would agree on a most things ......... what helps is you have been there and done that ( have led by example so to speak )and had I had your background I would be equally dissatified. The only comments from the studio that I have any real respect for come from Mick Guerin I like his analysis even from the Illy Wagmachhiy Trots. jimsmith 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBHunter 100 Report post Posted November 4, 2015 Well that's racing I suppose. Being philosophical I would say that if you want to have a great time, eat, drink, spend too much, then go to Melbourne or at least a formal black tie MC party. If you want to see good fast racing over 2 miles where the entire field finishes in under 3:18.00, watch some japan racing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
porky 900 Report post Posted November 4, 2015 2 things I said to a mate straight after the cup...I,m putting a dollar a win on everything next year...at worst the favorite wins and you buy yourself a handle,2nd fav. its a big bottle of tui, anything else wins and it finishes the day off nicely. The second thing was, I will never remember the name of that thing (might remember the pentire connection) and 1st lady winner and the strapper but that,ll be it! (so I guess, yeah, it was memorable!) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richie 1,027 Report post Posted November 4, 2015 7 hours ago, Ohokaman said: That's a bit simplistic Richie. You could not expect a back runner to circle the field to put pace on in a race when they have never led in their lives...it just wouldn't happen. Particularly in a race worth $6m...... Too many horses in the race perhaps..? The likelihood is that the pace will be slack due to so many horses jostling for position, with jockeys trying to get them settled in a rhythm designed to preserve energy rather than expend it...... That maybe so but that makes it more important for jockeys to know what pace they going at.Zac Purton on Fame Game said his horse has gone 12 seconds quicker in winning before,so if that the case he should have been able to go forward easily and maybe sit 3 wide .Instead he stayed near back knowing he wasnt going to win.Michael Walker said before race that there no real front runner and so will be no pace on,so will have to be handy.So i would imagine most jockeys would have worked that out ,yet we still had some that went to back and didnt try to improve. Steve Paul and Catalano 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBHunter 100 Report post Posted November 5, 2015 In Balance to my earlier comment, what if there was a fair and reasonable consensus among a majority of connected people that going forward, the MC was not going to become the race that damages or possibly kills horses. In the business of this event, fast times are not what it's all about. Im at a lose so Im just trying to rationalise the race as it was run Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phar Lap Fan 103 Report post Posted November 7, 2015 Ohokaman - maybe but isn't the traditional view that such horses are better stayers so they should have more stamina? If a horse can run 3,200m. in 3.18, shouldn't the jockey try to utilize its greater stamina? I've considered this conundrum for many years and never resolved it - it seems that most jockeys will never try. Never seen a jockey charged for not giving the horse its best opportunity to win either. Accepting the slow pace and being left flat-footed when the leaders sprint is no good for anybody. My opinion is that the greatest staying performance in my time was Kotare Chief in the 1987 Auckland Cup - he ran so quickly that he ran the other horses into the distance. Not a great cup - I predict that Prince of Penzance won't win another race (but he probably doesn't have to). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pogo(aus) 876 Report post Posted November 7, 2015 it was a farcical run race ruined by a farcical track bias. as was derby day. how could they get it so wrong on such big days? roll on sydney autumn and brisbane winter Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBHunter 100 Report post Posted November 8, 2015 9 hours ago, Phar Lap Fan said: Ohokaman - maybe but isn't the traditional view that such horses are better stayers so they should have more stamina? If a horse can run 3,200m. in 3.18, shouldn't the jockey try to utilize its greater stamina? I've considered this conundrum for many years and never resolved it - it seems that most jockeys will never try. Never seen a jockey charged for not giving the horse its best opportunity to win either. Accepting the slow pace and being left flat-footed when the leaders sprint is no good for anybody. My opinion is that the greatest staying performance in my time was Kotare Chief in the 1987 Auckland Cup - he ran so quickly that he ran the other horses into the distance. Not a great cup - I predict that Prince of Penzance won't win another race (but he probably doesn't have to). Kotare Chief's run was one of the greats for sure. If you like that type of racing as I do, check out Gold ship and Deep impact to name a couple. These horses are the master 2 milers, The Japanese run 2 mile races where the entire field is home inside 3: 18.00. In fairness though, The MC horses come a long way to race in Melbourne and to run them at mile pace over 2 miles is a big ask. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashoka 1,179 Report post Posted November 8, 2015 TBHunter... Perhaps the Japanese need to bring over their own pacemaker? I wonder how that would be perceived in Australasia? All the best. Ashoka Bimbo 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
