Hi Jinx

[jimsmith 224]

Was a fair enough sort of horse with ability when raced here earning 37k in stakes over four seasons. Is a different horse in Australia. Won the 200k Group One Queensland Pacing Championship at Albion Park last night.

Must be very tempting for many NZ owners / trainers to take their fair enough sort of horse to Australia. May struggle to win at Forbury but could be the next Interdominion winner

Why are these horses finding such outstanding form in Australia?

Change of environment / climate ?

Training methods?

Weaker opposition?  

[rdytdy 5,341]

Why the surprise? 

It's been done before 1960 to be precise. Won a decent race at 50/1

[richie 1,027]

Apart from maybe half a dozen horses each year the Aussie horses just all seem to be very poor,the number of kiwi horses that are only average that go over there and win big races is unbelieveable.

[zelda kratchanova 2 501]

as steady says the ozzie horses see the winning post at the end of the strectch and faint, n0?

[jimsmith 224]

as steady says the ozzie horses see the winning post at the end of the strectch and faint, n0?

Speaking of such things. Lauren Panella leaves me scratching my head at times. Seems to be a one dimensional driver regardless of the horses fitness. No covering up for one run if the horse is only at 80% fitness. It's just handlebars down exactly as if the winning post has been moved to the top of the home straight. She does get a lot of winners because she's clearly on the best horse but if you put a driver like Sam Ottley up who knows how to judge a race the Tritton stable would have a lot more winners than it does.  

[Guest]

Jim.

yes Lauren does have handlebars down from the start.

Basically the Shane Tritton horses always have the galloping hood on and are always fired up.

Lauren is very slight in build and I just don't think she is strong enough to ho,d them and that is why they just run from the get go.

I remember when she was over here several months ago she drove a Mark Jones horse at Ashburton and it had the galloping hood on which it  hadn't had on before .

She couldn't hold it the whole way and it was a horse that never seemed to pull.

It sat parked the whole way and she was out the cart and still finished fourth, and went on to win next start at Nelson with Blair Orange on it but never pulled at all.

 

[jimsmith 224]

Why the surprise? 

It's been done before 1960 to be precise. Won a decent race at 50/1

Didn't say I was surprised Father Ted. Fact is the horse won 37k in the last four seasons then goes to Australia and wins a 200k Group One. Was this horse ever considered a live chance in a similar feature group one here?

There have been many good NZ horses over the years exported to Australia that went on to become champion type horses. The Butchers had Smoken Up before the Justice's got him. 

The Graylings had Jack Morris in the early 90's. He won three races here and 22k over two seasons. Exported to Australia and was near unbeatable over there. Won the 1993 Interdominion at Albion Park and was also Australian Harness horse of the year. He was a once in a lifetime horse for the Graylings. A shame really.

[rdytdy 5,341]

Perhaps my post was too cryptic Jim.  Zelda twigged though. 

[jimsmith 224]

Apologies Ted, I didn't realize you were talking in riddles. Pre 60's before I even graced the planet.

[Ashoka 1,179]

jimsmith...

Centennial Melbourne Cup...New Zealand trifecta. Just sayin'...won't happen again for a while, I'm thinking...

All the best.

Ashoka

[rdytdy 5,341]

Apologies Ted, I didn't realize you were talking in riddles. Pre 60's before I even graced the planet.

Yeah right. 

1960, not pre 60's. 

Just to bring you up to speed the 1960 Melbourne Cup was won by a NZ horse called Hi Jinx. 

 

[jimsmith 224]

Oh only 50 years ago Ted.

Funnily enough Ted if we are going to split follicles I didn't get your cryptic message because you stated : to be precise  "It's been done before 1960" where as Hi Jinx had his big win for Trevor Knowles in 1960 .

I wasn't even a twinkle in my dads eye in 1960...and yes... yea right.

[rdytdy 5,341]

Never mind Jimmy. Everyone else was up to speed. Surely your title was a giveaway.

4am start is obviously a bit early for you   enjoy your grandad nap this afternoon. 

[Thejanitor 1,220]

Was a fair enough sort of horse with ability when raced here earning 37k in stakes over four seasons. Is a different horse in Australia. Won the 200k Group One Queensland Pacing Championship at Albion Park last night.

Must be very tempting for many NZ owners / trainers to take their fair enough sort of horse to Australia. May struggle to win at Forbury but could be the next Interdominion winner

Why are these horses finding such outstanding form in Australia?

Change of environment / climate ?

Training methods?

Weaker opposition?  

Perhaps they have superior chemistry sets in Australia? 

[Wannabearacecafer 44]

Better handicapping system, can work through the grades and get their confidence up instead of getting there heads kicked in most weeks. Also due to our poor handicapping system our horses are well looked after as they are generally not competitive enough to race until they are near 100%. So when they receive them in Oz they are relatively lightly raced and ready to go where as many of the oz horses had already been burnt. 

[Counter Punch 256]

Speaking of such things. Lauren Panella leaves me scratching my head at times. Seems to be a one dimensional driver regardless of the horses fitness. No covering up for one run if the horse is only at 80% fitness. It's just handlebars down exactly as if the winning post has been moved to the top of the home straight. She does get a lot of winners because she's clearly on the best horse but if you put a driver like Sam Ottley up who knows how to judge a race the Tritton stable would have a lot more winners than it does.  

A one dimensional driver who has driven more than 550 winners. SHOCK HORROR. 

[jimsmith 224]

A one dimensional driver who has driven more than 550 winners. SHOCK HORROR. 

So what's your real problem Counter Punch? Do you just dislike Race Cafe or are you against anyone expressing opinions that don't mirror yours?

Very few people if any who contribute here would be naive enough to think they can change or improve harness racing from this website but if that was the aim of Racecafe and all it's users then they may as well just shut the site down and everyone go do something else.  

This website is all about expressing opinions you moron. We see something we like we say so. We see something we don't like,we say so. We don't understand something,we ask a question. We see issues we feel we should be addressed,we say so.

As for Lauren Panella. I've watched harness racing at Vincennes Hippodrome in France,Solvalla in Sweden,Meadowlands in New Jersey,Woodbine in Canada,Harold Park,Sydney,Mooney Valley,Melbourne,Gloucester Park,Perth,Albion Park,Queensland,Ruakaka,Avondale,Alexandra Park,Pukekohe,Thames,Morrinsville,Claudelands,Cambridge,Hawera,Wanganui,Hutt Park,Waterlea,Kaikoura,Richmond Park,Reefton,Patterson Park,Victoria Park,Rangiora,Addington,Motukarara,Methven,Ashbuton,Washdyke,Oamaru,Waikouaiti,Forbury,Ascot Park,Gore and Wyndam and probably a few more I've missed out.

I'd have no hesitation in describing Lauren as the most one dimensional driver I've ever seen anywhere in the world. The % of her drives that lead must be in the 90's. It's off to the front and handlebars down in almost all her drives. I'd also describe her overall as an "average" judge of pace. Yes she has driven 550 winners but that does not change what her well renown driving style is.

Most of her winners were trained by her partner Shane Tritton who frequently has six to 12 runners at a meeting. That's a shitload of drives for Lauren. A very high percentage were clearly the best and fittest horse in the race and started a very short favourite. We have some superb front running drivers in NZ. Peter Ferguson and John Dunn are just two that come to mind. Both can win from anywhere but have a very high strike rate from the front. They dictate and control races running sectionals to suit then having enough in reserve for the finish. Lauren Panella routinely has her drive running hectic sectionals well clear of the field only to have zero left by the time she turns for home. Some of her drives clearly fall into the category of not driving in a manner to obtain the best possible placing. I've also seen Lauren rate her drive in front beautifully and leave the field in her wake but overall she's not a driver I'd rate highly. Skill wise and judgment etc she wouldn't come within a bulls roar of Natalie Rasmussen for example. I'd go as far as saying if she worked for the All Stars and drove like she does Lauren would be looking for a new employer inside two weeks.

My preference is to have my horse in front on the home turn and at the finish. Just being in front on the home turn is only half the job completed.

[cantab matt 134]

Counter Punch, how dare you.... you should be just saying thanks to Jim/BWD ( plus all his other previous aliases)  for all the worldly, sage advice he offers us mere mortals on Racecafe.

[MisterEd 328]

So what's your real problem Counter Punch? Do you just dislike Race Cafe or are you against anyone expressing opinions that don't mirror yours?

Very few people if any who contribute here would be naive enough to think they can change or improve harness racing from this website but if that was the aim of Racecafe and all it's users then they may as well just shut the site down and everyone go do something else.  

This website is all about expressing opinions you moron. We see something we like we say so. We see something we don't like,we say so. We don't understand something,we ask a question. We see issues we feel we should be addressed,we say so.

As for Lauren Panella. I've watched harness racing at Vincennes Hippodrome in France,Solvalla in Sweden,Meadowlands in New Jersey,Woodbine in Canada,Harold Park,Sydney,Mooney Valley,Melbourne,Gloucester Park,Perth,Albion Park,Queensland,Ruakaka,Avondale,Alexandra Park,Pukekohe,Thames,Morrinsville,Claudelands,Cambridge,Hawera,Wanganui,Hutt Park,Waterlea,Kaikoura,Richmond Park,Reefton,Patterson Park,Victoria Park,Rangiora,Addington,Motukarara,Methven,Ashbuton,Washdyke,Oamaru,Waikouaiti,Forbury,Ascot Park,Gore and Wyndam and probably a few more I've missed out.

I'd have no hesitation in describing Lauren as the most one dimensional driver I've ever seen anywhere in the world. The % of her drives that lead must be in the 90's. It's off to the front and handlebars down in almost all her drives. I'd also describe her overall as an "average" judge of pace. Yes she has driven 550 winners but that does not change what her well renown driving style is.

Most of her winners were trained by her partner Shane Tritton who frequently has six to 12 runners at a meeting. That's a shitload of drives for Lauren. A very high percentage were clearly the best and fittest horse in the race and started a very short favourite. We have some superb front running drivers in NZ. Peter Ferguson and John Dunn are just two that come to mind. Both can win from anywhere but have a very high strike rate from the front. They dictate and control races running sectionals to suit then having enough in reserve for the finish. Lauren Panella routinely has her drive running hectic sectionals well clear of the field only to have zero left by the time she turns for home. Some of her drives clearly fall into the category of not driving in a manner to obtain the best possible placing. I've also seen Lauren rate her drive in front beautifully and leave the field in her wake but overall she's not a driver I'd rate highly. Skill wise and judgment etc she wouldn't come within a bulls roar of Natalie Rasmussen for example. I'd go as far as saying if she worked for the All Stars and drove like she does Lauren would be looking for a new employer inside two weeks.

My preference is to have my horse in front on the home turn and at the finish. Just being in front on the home turn is only half the job completed.

I can think of at least 5 you have missed and that is just in NZ....

[jimsmith 224]

Counter Punch, how dare you.... you should be just saying thanks to Jim/BWD ( plus all his other previous aliases)  for all the worldly, sage advice he offers us mere mortals on Racecafe.

Yet another lame limp noodle attempt at being cleaver and funny but as per usual just another mind numbingly boring worthless contribution. Anyone who knows as much or more about the game than you really threatens you. Sad little man

[jimsmith 224]

I can think of at least 5 you have missed and that is just in NZ....

What a tosser!

Shame you're too ignorant to comprehend what I actually said. I spoke of the racecourses I've attended harness race meetings around the World and in NZ. How would a plonker like you know of at least 5 venues in NZ I missed? I wasn't speaking of ALL harness venues in NZ,ONLY the one's I've attended. If I was referring to all racecourses in NZ I would have mentioned Cromwell,Kurow,Manawatu,Omakau,Te Aroha,Gate Pa,Orari,Roxburgh,Waimate,Tauherenikau,Otaki,Omoto,Wingatui etc etc etc etc etc.

Try and keep up.

[cantab matt 134]

Yet another lame limp noodle attempt at being cleaver and funny but as per usual just another mind numbingly boring worthless contribution. Anyone who knows as much or more about the game than you really threatens you. Sad little man

yip- I feel real threatened by tough guys like you who hide behind there keyboards...... you are a narcissistic joke and the main reason why so many people have basically given up on  racecafe ( myself included)...... man up and give me a call one day- I'm not hard to find........ bet you don't though "keyboard" warrior

[napier 339]

What a tosser!

Shame you're too ignorant to comprehend what I actually said. I spoke of the racecourses I've attended harness race meetings around the World and in NZ. How would a plonker like you know of at least 5 venues in NZ I missed? I wasn't speaking of ALL harness venues in NZ,ONLY the one's I've attended. If I was referring to all racecourses in NZ I would have mentioned Cromwell,Kurow,Manawatu,Omakau,Te Aroha,Gate Pa,Orari,Roxburgh,Waimate,Tauherenikau,Otaki,Omoto,Wingatui etc etc etc etc etc.

Try and keep up.

In Mister Eds defense Jim.....you did say "watched" - not "attended"

[JackSprat 947]

Lauren Panella "was" quite a well rounded driver when she was under the guidance of Darren Binskin, but since linking up with Shane Tritton, she has morphed into the one dimensional driver that she is today, to fit the mold of what's needed, ie a featherweight that can steer - nothing more, nothing less. The Tritton race plan is always the same - "go as fast as you can, for as long as you can". Tactics and judgement are not really necessary, as that's the way the entire team race, so that's now the only way she drives. The fact that many of her drives are pulling is pretty much an illusion, as she's that light the horse barely knows she's there, let alone hanging on!

Would they go any better with a decent driver aboard? That's debatable, as she's already driving them the way they're trained to race.

[MisterEd 328]

What a tosser!

Shame you're too ignorant to comprehend what I actually said. I spoke of the racecourses I've attended harness race meetings around the World and in NZ. How would a plonker like you know of at least 5 venues in NZ I missed? I wasn't speaking of ALL harness venues in NZ,ONLY the one's I've attended. If I was referring to all racecourses in NZ I would have mentioned Cromwell,Kurow,Manawatu,Omakau,Te Aroha,Gate Pa,Orari,Roxburgh,Waimate,Tauherenikau,Otaki,Omoto,Wingatui etc etc etc etc etc.

Try and keep up.

you forgot Hororata!