Ashoka 1,179 Report post Posted September 18, 2015 DC9... You have a strange definition of "objectivity". I am basing my comments of facts known to me personally. You are basing your opinion on anecdotal evidence that you cannot verify. Regards. Ashoka Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC9 203 Report post Posted September 21, 2015 You have a strange definition of "objectivity". I am basing my comments of facts known to me personally. Well, basing ones opinion solely on ones own experience would make one subjective by nature. Subjective is an antonym of objective, if not the exact opposite. What is your definition of objective and why is it less 'strange' than mine? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashoka 1,179 Report post Posted September 22, 2015 DC9... Newspaper journalists are supposed to be objective. They report what they believe to be the facts. I am writing in that sense, as, as a result of being "there" when these things occurred, I can objectively state what happened. I am the object of the activity about which I am writing. You are relying on the information of others as supplied through a medium. You have no personal (objective) evidence upon which to base your comments. Therefore, your comments are subjective. I must say that considering this matter is very interesting indeed. A semantic argument could last forever. I'm game if you are...maybe. All the best. Ashoka Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC9 203 Report post Posted September 22, 2015 What exactly have I got no personal evidence of? You've lost me there. I get that you think NZ is more corrupt than China, Russia, Syria, South Africa, Somalia, Nigeria and all that, but... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
meomy 971 Report post Posted October 5, 2015 One only needs to read the court news and that of the Bribery & Corruption reports to see NZ has unfortunately been dragged down by corruption from recent migrants, including those on short term student/ working visas, and that of some so claiming to be refugees - it's a known fact some who claim to be refugees intentionally throw away documentation to cover there own previous offending and are serious security risks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uriah Heap 481 Report post Posted October 5, 2015 Our criminal Kiwi brothers (and sisters) are returning to our shores after being held in Australian Detention Centres. Do we refer to these people as immigrants, refugees or returning hero's? meomy 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todamax101 533 Report post Posted October 7, 2015 The triangle designed "flag" has to be the biggest joke of all time, it simply looks like an Egyptian Pyramid, then again, welcome to Pyramid schemes flourishing in NZ with the influx of migrants/ refugees from corrupt countries. http://www.rachaelmacklin.com/red-peak-just-a-bunch-of-triangles Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashoka 1,179 Report post Posted October 8, 2015 meomy... Please provide the evidence that the percentage of recent migrants who offend is greater than the percentage of offending by New Zealand citizens. Thank you. Regards. Ashoka Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashoka 1,179 Report post Posted October 8, 2015 DC9... Nobody in their right mind considers the countries you have named to be materially free of corruption. However, New Zealand is perceived to be materially free of corruption when that is not the case. That is my point. The meanings of "objective" and "subjective" are determined by the level of proof available to substantiate the observation at hand. Hence my reference to semantics, as what determines *proof" differs from one individual to another and the nuances of "proof" provide for fodder for endless discussion. Religion as a topic is an obvious example of what I am getting at. I believe that what I am saying here is "objective" because I believe that I can verify what I am saying by providing evidence that will convince a rational person of the validity of my assertions. I, further, believe that you cannot, as at the time that you posted, do the same in regard to your assertions. I realise that you might well be able to provide such with research but I also believe that said research might result in you changing your mind. In other words, I don't think that you have objective evidence such that you are entitled to make the assertions that you have. I feel the same about Meomy's postings in the thread. All the best. Ashoka Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insider 3,943 Report post Posted October 23, 2015 Sad to see that picture of NZ'r Lydia Ko, Major Golf Open winner, wrapped in the Union Jack. From memory it looked like the NZ Flag to me. It just happens to have a Union Jack in the corner doesn't it? Are you always so selective in how you see things? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
final luca 189 Report post Posted October 23, 2015 think , this issue is the least important of those nz has ..and needs to be shelved.. john key is pushing this.. and stuff like housing, immigration, education and health have gone out the door .. while millions are being spent on an issue that really has no foundation.. it is a ploy on governments part.. to confuse the people... and they are doing a really good job at doing that... the closer we get to the next election the more problems we will see in our countries house keeping... and we will all wonder why we never saw it coming.... we the people... will only have our each other to blame for not seeing outside the square and allowing the wool to be pulled over our eyes. Ashoka 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
crustyngrizzly 1,700 Report post Posted October 24, 2015 I have had enough. Just flag it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uriah Heap 481 Report post Posted December 9, 2015 I have exercised my franchise. I gave the top mark to the black and blue silver fern. I have seen this flying at a number of houses when out for a walk, and it looks good. I like it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack 429 Report post Posted December 23, 2015 NEWS & MEDIA 15 December 2015 Media releases Referendums on the New Zealand Flag The Electoral Commission has released the official result for the first referendum on the New Zealand Flag. The referendum asked the question: “If the New Zealand flag changes, which flag would you prefer?” The most preferred alternative flag design chosen through the first referendum is Option A: Silver Fern (Black, White and Blue). The next most preferred flag design is Option E: Silver Fern (Red, White and Blue), followed in order of preference by Option B: Red Peak, Option D: Silver Fern (Black and White) and Option C: Koru. The total votes received were 1,546,734, which includes 149,747 informal votes (9.68%) and 3,372 invalid votes (0.22%). Voter turnout is 48.78%. Turnout is calculated by taking the total votes received as a percentage of the total number of voters enrolled as at 19 November 2015 (3,170,726). The breakdown of the iterative count process of the votes received is available online at www.electionresults.govt.nz. Information on the turnout by each electorate is also available at www.electionresults.govt.nz. The second binding referendum on the New Zealand flag will be held from 3-24 March 2016. Voters will be asked to choose between Silver Fern (Black, White and Blue), being the most preferred flag design selected in this referendum, and the current flag. The flag that receives the most votes will be the official flag of New Zealand. Voters should ensure that they are enrolled and their enrolment details are up to date well before voting begins in the second referendum at www.elections.org.nz/enrol. ENDS NOTE: This media release will be the Commission’s only comment on the result. No further comment will be made. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
meomy 971 Report post Posted February 26, 2016 When one votes for the "flag" whichever way one should choose, one should remember the following: What does each flag looks like when it is flying? The alternative flag for instance looks like a pair of budgie smugglers/ briefs with bones to the sides when it flies in some winds. Does one want to be draped with what looks like fish bones? Frankly it wouldn't look to crash hot on a pair of togs or bathing cap for swimmers, would it? How would the alternative option flag look on various packaging including food packaging, e.g. will different tones/ shades of black against each other look acceptable or not? Then there is the fading factor to consider. How much will it cost organizations, including voluntary organizations who have limited budgets? The existing flag is still only young in it's lifetime - can we afford to just kiss it good-bye when there have been sporting legends like the likes of Alison Roe, John Walker, Rod Dixon, Dick Quax, all carrying the existing flag to prominence on the world stage? Shouldn't there achievements count for something as a part of our history? There have been many more people represent NZ in various organizations including Rotary, Lions, Scouts, Girl Guides and the general public who have flown the existing flag with pride. Would the alternative flag hold the same sense of pride? Why is it that we are been asked to consider changing our flag because other people from other countries are not able to tell the difference between the NZ and the Australian flags? Shouldn't they be looking in there own backyards where there own curriculum is failing it's own citizens and educate them whilst they are still at school like we all did in our younger days? It's not those that are NZ citizens who have failed to recognize the difference, it's those from other countries who have failed in there own systems and it is them that need to change and educate there own with knowledge about the wider world. What country will be making the flag related memorabilia/ souvenirs ? Will it be outsourced like so much of it is now to somewhere like China? Or will we have exclusive rights to producing any related product s in New Zealand? Food for thought.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohokaman 5,825 Report post Posted February 26, 2016 This one is much better IMO.....I don't want to see black on any flag. We are flying it now...looks great.... rdytdy 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uriah Heap 481 Report post Posted February 28, 2016 The new flag looks magnificent flying high above many houses around my area. Meomy - The biggest problem with the current flag is that it has the British Union Jack in one corner. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
crustyngrizzly 1,700 Report post Posted February 29, 2016 UNION JACK ....Part of our history.and you can't change that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohokaman 5,825 Report post Posted February 29, 2016 Past history Crusty...I don't think anyone will forget it because of a new flag, but we need our own identity. The days of being tied to British apron strings are long gone. And when the Australians go Republic, which they surely will, a new flag will be needed there too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
biff 2,158 Report post Posted February 29, 2016 3 hours ago, Uriah Heap said: The new flag looks magnificent flying high above many houses around my area. Meomy - The biggest problem with the current flag is that it has the British Union Jack in one corner. Ahh but Mr Heap, never forget, without the British we wouldn't be here in the first place. God Save the Queen. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohokaman 5,825 Report post Posted February 29, 2016 When Scotland finally go it alone, what happens to the Union Jack then, given the St Andrew's Cross is a major part of it..?? And Australia would be a damn site better off without the Poms too Biff...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquaman 1,352 Report post Posted February 29, 2016 Flag will stay the same, and so it should. The only people that want change have very short attention spans, and minds like Xmas wrappings. biff 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uriah Heap 481 Report post Posted February 29, 2016 20 hours ago, crustyngrizzly said: UNION JACK ....Part of our history.and you can't change that. Exactly - Consign it to history. Let people go to Te Papa to see it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohokaman 5,825 Report post Posted February 29, 2016 56 minutes ago, aquaman said: Flag will stay the same, and so it should. The only people that want change have very short attention spans, and minds like Xmas wrappings. And this from someone who supports Donald Trump........ GONSTA 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
biff 2,158 Report post Posted February 29, 2016 16 hours ago, Ohokaman said: When Scotland finally go it alone, what happens to the Union Jack then, given the St Andrew's Cross is a major part of it..?? And Australia would be a damn site better off without the Poms too Biff...... The place is full of Irish Ohokaman, and Asians, and Lebanese, and Kiwi's, and South Africans and Brazilians and Somalis and many many others, does that apply to them also or just Poms? aquaman 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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