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legs&lashes

Group 1stakes

48 posts in this topic

As this season is drawing to an end lets hope that the board have sorted the group 1 stakemoney out for next season!

It seems ridiculous that we have NZRS races worth $8000 less than group 1s!

The derby and Oaks are the show piece of racing for the restricted age males and females and they only get one chance at these races and they should be worth $40000 at least.Any group 1 should have minimum stake level of $30000.

Also there is a much better way to pay the unplaced runners and the board need to seriously look at this going in to the new season.

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So long as the Association caters to the 'mediocre' paying hundreds of thousands in unplaced stakes for performers who serve no other purposes than to collect those 'appearance fees' then prizemoney in NZ (especially for the Elite class of greyhound will remain in the doldrums)

 

The NZ racing series serves a purpose to encourage NZ breeders to supply the greyhound to make up the field (rather than trying to import) so I see value in this type of series

 

The Group races should be Minimum value say $60,000 Grp 1, $35,000 Gp2 and $20,000 Feature Finals/Provincial Cups

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I'd like to see an increase to funding for group races but where is the $$$ coming from as I don't see the govt reaching in the pockets to help any racing codes out.

I'd love to have a c5 dog and race in group ones but still trying for 8yrs and many thousands spent on my journey as a greyhound owner.

Those appearance fees keep me going Eagle Eye in the industry, striving to get the next champ and without them I'd be long gone and say there would be a few others to.

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Normally we have nine race meets per week (1x Mon, 2x Tues, 1x Wed, 2x Thurs, 2x Fri, 1x Sun) 

 

Each meet has 12 races with 5 unplaced runners in each race.

 

9 x 12 x 5 = 540 unplaced runners per week.

 

540 x 52 (weeks/year) x $30 = $842,400.00 as a back of an envelope calculation in PV's per year.

 

So with fields of less than 8 dogs & races where unplaced runners collect $100 or $200 I think it's safe to say we're awarding well more than 3/4 million dollars PV's per year.

 

 

No offence to the dog, owner or trainer, as I simply pulled a name out of a hat for my example.

 

https://www.thedogs.co.nz/greyhounds/profiles.aspx?AnimalID=25238

 

This greyhound has 23 starts as a maiden. (yes I know there is more prolific examples)

 

It has placed 3rd in two of those races and banked $330.00 in stakes money.

 

With that, it has been unplaced in 21 races (6 pre Feb @ $40 & 15 post Feb @ $30) and been awarded $690.00 in petrol vouchers.

 

While I firmly believe there is a place for PV's in our sport, I do not believe we are allocating them in anywhere near the best possible way.

 

If Joe Trainer travels to the track this week with one dog, it runs unplaced in its race & receives $30 in PV's.

 

The following week Joe Trainer makes the same trip, this time with 5 dogs in his van. They are all unplaced in their runs and receives $150 in PV's. The cost of travel would be almost exactly the same for both weeks, wouldn't they?

 

As an aside, why are petrol vouchers issued in the first place? They become property of owners when they are awarded, yet it seems to me that dogs vastly outnumber owners during nearly every race meet I've ever been to.

 

 

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Totally agree, there were plenty of dogs before petrol vouchers came In, and if they went there would still be plenty.

If trainers and or owners rely on petrol vouchers to get by, then I'm sorry but you shouldn't be racing then.

The dogs who deserve nothing for running down the track are simply taking away the stake money for the group races

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yankiwi is on the mark - the cost to travel is the same whether you have 1 dog or a team racing - rewarding a trainer who takes say 30 dogs (x $30 per dog) is better than winning a race on the program - you do that 5 times a week, well the maths are there for all to see

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The most that is paid out each meeting is $1800 (5x12x$30).

Now an alternative is the Victorian system where by the each trainer gets $70 for turning up and $10 per dog they bring.

If this was applied to the up coming Wednesday Wanganui meeting which has 44 different trainers the total cost would be $4040. (96x$10+44x$70).

That's too much money to be paid out a lot of you might say so I'll look at an alternative amount, $30 per trainer an $5 per dog. This totals $1800 again. (44x$30+96x$5). But soon people would work out if partnerships split up they'll get an extra $30 etc etc.

Back to the topic of group 1 prize money being too low, I'm in total agreeance.

James

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How about we just ask the NZRB for $750,000,to put on group races.

Our code is not getting the right percentage pay out.

Time we had people with backbone demanding a little bit more please.

Ps. I'll go along with no PV as long as the imports pay $1000 on arrival !

And if we want the best imports to race here, it should be $2000.

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Sheep there must be a better way to distribute that unplaced money more evenly?

 To my way of thinking there is just too much money spent on dogs not earning stakemoney.Roughly $840000 a year if my maths are right.

their is over $280000 going to low grade nz bred races... its a joke that a c1 nz bred dog can race for 4k less than a group 2 race

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so lowdown what would you like to happen?to me it looks like you would be happy with all dogs racing for the same prizemoney???do you think its a fair situation that a C1 NZ bred dog can race 4k less than a group 1?

Every industry needs its champions and they deserve the right to race for the big money.

Group 1 stakes are a joke and there is way too much money going to non performance,

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Have to agree with u on this one Lowdown. Its bloody hard to get a group one dog and i do think more $$ prize wise would be sweet.

You hit the nail on the head in that our code isnt getting our fair share from nz racing board and some pressure needs to be applied.

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Well said legs&lashes. Look don't get me wrong I don't have all the answers and I certainly don't agree with the extent to which we reward mediocrity either. I was simply talking about what we are going to do to get people to 'take abit more notice of our industry'. I've got to try and refrain from my extremely pessimistic posts, you may have seen one from me recently were I predicted the extinction of our industry, thats how dismayed I am at our direction! You know out in the real world, I call it that because some people have been in dogs all their lives, they live and breath it and therefore lose perspective of 'the real world', greyhound racing dosent exist, it seems 2% of new zealanders have watched a dog race in the last year and if your lucky 0.2% of those people had a bet. That cant be healthy. Anyway there's a 4am rant....back to sleep...hope I made some sense. :-)

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don't underestimatethe power of a champion dog though lowdown.if we look back at our last 3 superstars they have captured the imagination of the nation.little mother swift fantasy and dc.its amazing how many people notice a top dog and are prepared to talk about it ,out in the 'real world'.

our industry has stumbled along under poor guidance from the top (board) over the last few years but we are still alive and racing so it shows what a fantastic unique robust little industry we have and its thanks to all us participants that keep it going.

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don't underestimatethe power of a champion dog though lowdown.if we look back at our last 3 superstars they have captured the imagination of the nation.little mother swift fantasy and dc.its amazing how many people notice a top dog and are prepared to talk about it ,out in the 'real world'.

our industry has stumbled along under poor guidance from the top (board) over the last few years but we are still alive and racing so it shows what a fantastic unique robust little industry we have and its thanks to all us participants that keep it going.

 

Wellsaid. We are still going, but it is a bottom up industry. i think the stakes and petrol vouchers are 2 important issues that need re-evaluation.

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Well we all agree that Group races should go up. But for importers to think it should come off the NZRS,is a bit over the top.

As for PVs, Wanganui put forward a recommendation that trainers get only for the first 5 unplaced dogs. That will give trainers up to $150.

Which should cover cost of most places in NZ.Just not the boat.

Bev

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not sure about the ímporter' reference but think what alltheway was meaning is that there is an example of how the group stakes are so poor.importers,breeders trainers ,owners it doesn't matter we all deserve to have the chance to race for better money in the group races.yes I agree a cap on the vouchers is a great option to be considered.

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Is this because you suddenly have a leading charge for all the upcoming group races Craig?

You always seem to be rubbishing the NZRS races, maybe if you didn't just get dodgy dogs from Australa and bred something decent of your own and put in the hard yards in breeding and rearing your own stock you might think differently.

Not everyone has the connections to get the dogs sent over from Australia, nor the inclination of taking suspect dogs to try and turn around.

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Be

What happens when a trainer takes 8 dogs to the races and has a shocking day. All 8 unplaced.

How does that trainer then payout his owners the petrol vouchers when he is restricted on the first 5.?

I credit vouchers as a payment from the owner. So it comes off their bill.

I've only the one dog.

but what happens if I 8 and have the shocker?

Divide the vouchers amongst the owners. ?

Remember this initiative is for the owners.

why should some miss out ?

They have their place. But better thinking towards their use and distribution is needed in my opinion.

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Be

What happens when a trainer takes 8 dogs to the races and has a shocking day. All 8 unplaced.

How does that trainer then payout his owners the petrol vouchers when he is restricted on the first 5.?

I credit vouchers as a payment from the owner. So it comes off their bill.

I've only the one dog.

but what happens if I 8 and have the shocker?

Divide the vouchers amongst the owners. ?

Remember this initiative is for the owners.

why should some miss out ?

They have their place. But better thinking towards their use and distribution is needed in my opinion.

why dont you give the petrol vouchers to nz bred dogs only lets face it  if you can afford to send a dog to nz you wouldnt be worried about pv's that should save a fair bit

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Is this because you suddenly have a leading charge for all the upcoming group races Craig?

You always seem to be rubbishing the NZRS races, maybe if you didn't just get dodgy dogs from Australa and bred something decent of your own and put in the hard yards in breeding and rearing your own stock you might think differently.

Not everyone has the connections to get the dogs sent over from Australia, nor the inclination of taking suspect dogs to try and turn around.

its because 90% of dogs bred in nz are crap (its the same in aus to, except they have the no's to allow for this)... without the aussie imports, almost every meeting would be a wednesday at wanganui, do we really want that?

the vouchers should stay, as most trainers could not survive without them, and its hard to have racemeetings when their are only 4-5 trainers per region.

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