Stud Fees - 2015

[fitzy 143]

Berri is it valid to rate the horse on one peak performance where he ran maybe 15 lbs better than his norm?

[Berri 2,131]

It means they have the genetic potential to reach for the clouds. As we know a lot of the achieved success starts with genetics, requires the right character, a trainer/ track work rider/ handler/ jockey who won't stuff it up and then finally a shed load of luck.

Many horses who don't make it as high as they might indicate have probably caught a condition that prevents them from realising their potential. The real question is whether, with a bit of imagination, one might think that they possess enough of the appropriate traits to make them a stallion. I loved Reliable Man's race record because he was a classic winner followed by a group one winner who franked that form in Australia when beating It's a Dundeal. He is very much a son of Dalakhani.

Delghar on the other hand is so well bred on the dam's side, by a very good sprinter and stallion (actually quite versatile), with a number of very good race performances, that on paper he's a chance. Looking towards his yearlings, a couple of them looked as though they'd run like hell so we shall see.

[Ashoka 1,179]

Berri...

 

Very well put indeed.

I agree wholeheartedly.

 

All the best.

Ashoka

[Nasrullah 180]

Sorry Huey, got you mixed up with ADM.

I always like Berri's analysis.

However I think one length margin at a shorter distance is very different from a one length margin at say 2400m.

You only have to see how much a field is spread out in a classic or staying race compared to say sprints up to miles.

Dalghar has a nice female line.

How many other stallions at stud in NZ have got two group one siblings in their first dam and could run?

[Huey 2,037]

Sorry Huey, got you mixed up with ADM.

I always like Berri's analysis.

However I think one length margin at a shorter distance is very different from a one length margin at say 2400m.

You only have to see how much a field is spread out in a classic or staying race compared to say sprints up to miles.

Dalghar has a nice female line.

How many other stallions at stud in NZ have got two group one siblings in their first dam and could run?

Echoes of Heaven and Super Easy come to mind, quite impressive dam lines.

[mr_gee 417]

its  interesting   reliable  man    had   fertility  probs   as  well     

[Huey 2,037]

its  interesting   reliable  man    had   fertility  probs   as  well     

As well as who?

[Nasrullah 180]

Forgot about those ones Huey.

 

Jakkalberry - Race Record Group One winner     Breeding-Half to two Group One winners and one stakeswinner 

 

Super Easy - Race Record Group One winner "Singapore"      Breeding- Half to two Group One winners and two stakeswinners

 

Bullbars- Race Record Group Three winner    Breeding- Half to two Group One winners

 

Echoes of Heaven -Race Record Listed winner      Breeding - Half to three Group One winners and one stakeswinner

[mr_gee 417]

opps   that     as well as  wasnt  spoose  be  there   but  did  hear  there was  another  with fertility probs  but  not  confirmed 

[Insider 3,961]

mr_gee, what are you trying to say about Reliable Man and your half pie follow up?

Please clarify in case I need to respond as I think that you have made an incorrect statement!

[Huey 2,037]

From the stud book both Reliable man & Dalghar shooting 77%  which I'd have thought indicated they weren't have problems with the ladies?

[mr_gee 417]

but   23    misses     does seem   high  for  young  stallion huey ?  or  am  i getting bit  ahead of  myself?

[Huey 2,037]

but   23    misses     does seem   high  for  young  stallion huey ?  or  am  i getting bit  ahead of  myself?

I've no idea, I'm sure more learned persons will have an idea.

[Insider 3,961]

23 is a lot to miss, but not in the context of the numbers that Reliable Man covered. 

Generally speaking a horse that is only covering a small book, say 50 mares in a season should be up in the 90% as each mare will be covered as often as necessary, sometimes twice on the same heat. However a horse covering 130 mares doesn't get the same opportunity to achieve the same % result. 

[fitzy 143]

For a first season sire no way can 77% be considered as disappointing fertility.

One first year sire from last year may have a more significant issue but it's up to the stud to disclose these things not Internet chat forums.

[Ruby 160]

Atlante at 8k seems a bit steep??

[fitzy 143]

Atlante at 8k seems a bit steep??

 

On what basis do you say that? Is there a cheaper G1 winning son of Fastnet Rock anywhere?

[Ruby 160]

Of course Fitzy there is not, certainly in the Southern Hemisphere - I guess as with all things it comes down to opinion. As a breed to race prospect ok, but you just have to look at the results of the weanling sales today to see that there is a huge gulf between production costs and return - unless many of the weanlings had their legs on backwards!

 

Highly Recommended stands at 4k in the South albeit a Group 2 winner beating Ethiopia and Sangster, 2nd and 3rd in two more Group 3's and a 3rd to Mosheen - I like the Aussie form - just my opinion. I am sure he will get his fair share of mares and all the best I hope he does well

[fitzy 143]

Good luck to the Highly Recomended crew, I hope he's a big success.

For me I would much rather breed to a G1 winning miler who also won a Melbourne listed sprint (beating a multiple G1 winner) to a 2000m grinder who won perhaps the weakest 3YO colts race of the spring.

One horse is true to type and pedigree and ones not.

Breed to the wrong one and you will get the results you saw at the weanling sales. People won't pay money for foals of poor or average sites. That's a fact!

[Huey 2,037]

Good luck to the Highly Recomended crew, I hope he's a big success.

For me I would much rather breed to a G1 winning miler who also won a Melbourne listed sprint (beating a multiple G1 winner) to a 2000m grinder who won perhaps the weakest 3YO colts race of the spring.

One horse is true to type and pedigree and ones not.

Breed to the wrong one and you will get the results you saw at the weanling sales. People won't pay money for foals of poor or average sites. That's a fact!

Yet they paid some ok money for Rock n Pop stock yesterday at the sales , who was 2nd in a Derby and 3rd in a 2000m G1 in NZ, was he a grinder?

 

I'm with Louise , I can't see where they got $8k from I thought he might have been pitched a bit lower than that. 

[rosie one 177]

Just been looking at the weanling sales nzb results so far.......makes you wonder how some of the studs can charge the service fees they do ....a lot of breeders losing hundreds of dollars,  many of the weanlings are selling well below the SIRES service fees?????  

[fitzy 143]

Rosie why do you assume that a poor sale is the fault of the stud or the stallion?

Is the mare any good, has it left a winner, are the foals legs bent, has it ever seen a drench or a feed?

 

Also remember this is a cull sale, not a select offering. Most are there because they are poor types or have problems and breeders are cuting thier losses early.

[rosie one 177]

Hi Fitzy.

 

I did have a look at a few of the weanlings with their photos loaded on the catalogue and was very surprised at how low some of the prices were.... This sale is marketed as a pin hooking sale as well.

So what your saying Fitzy! is that the breeder is devaluing his or her stock by going to this sale? 

[puha 2,177]

We looked at about 60 weanlings and was very impressed with many of the weanlings on offer.Guess there's many reasons for selling as we ve all got different circumstances.

[Insider 3,961]

Puha, Did you buy one? If so which one?

If you didn't buy one, which one did you like the best?