Stud Fees - 2015

[Berri 2,131]

Outstanding type for NZ. Well done I say

[Timon 107]

Yep - Sacred Falls at $30k and Savabeel $100K. Interesting to hear Mark talk of limiting Savabeel to approx 130 mares meaning 30 outside ones.

can someone do the maths for me, factoring in a risk rating for all the range of variables, and explain on either a breed to race or breed to sell basis what kind of commercial return you could ever expect to get spending $100k on a stud fee?  Hypotheticially let's assume you have a quality mare, say stakes winner, Gr II placed 

 

This is nothing about Savabeel, who is an outstanding sire.  

 

I breed to race and currently have and 3 and 4 yr old in training but I breed to race ....

[Insider 3,947]

can someone do the maths for me, factoring in a risk rating for all the range of variables, and explain on either a breed to race or breed to sell basis what kind of commercial return you could ever expect to get spending $100k on a stud fee? Hypotheticially let's assume you have a quality mare, say stakes winner, Gr II placed

This is nothing about Savabeel, who is an outstanding sire.

I breed to race and currently have and 3 and 4 yr old in training but I breed to race ....

In simple terms it's like this, given that you breed to race.

If you breed your mare to Savabeel you are twice as likely to breed a SW as compared to using another very good sire because his stats say that about 10% of his runners are Stakes Winners. Other very good sires often only get 5% or thereabouts. Then there are the other sires who get only 1% or 2% yet some people consider them successful. ( Not me though.)

If you only race in NZ and want to improve your odds Darci is the sire for you as his Stakes Winner stats are fantastic and he's only 20% of the price.

I refer throughout this posting to Stakes Winners as unless your horse can win at least one of those races per year you will have no chance of making a profit if that's what you mean by a commercial return by breeding to race.

[fitzy 143]

Well said Insider I like your logic.

[mr_gee 416]

In simple terms it's like this, given that you breed to race.

If you breed your mare to Savabeel you are twice as likely to breed a SW as compared to using another very good sire because his stats say that about 10% of his runners are Stakes Winners. Other very good sires often only get 5% or thereabouts. Then there are the other sires who get only 1% or 2% yet some people consider them successful. ( Not me though.)

If you only race in NZ and want to improve your odds Darci is the sire for you as his Stakes Winner stats are fantastic and he's only 20% of the price.

I refer throughout this posting to Stakes Winners as unless your horse can win at least one of those races per year you will have no chance of making a profit if that's what you mean by a commercial return by breeding to race.

but  what percentage were bred  by studs  what prerectage   by  breeders 

[Insider 3,947]

but  what percentage were bred  by studs  what prerectage   by  breeders

That would depend on who was the better breeder with their matings, quality of mare, rearing etc. These are all the things that the private breeder can do as well or better than any stud if they know what they are doing.

[Chestnut 3,151]

I agree Insider.. I think Super Easy might be a good option too if you want to go down the Darci line for a good price.

[Insider 3,947]

I agree Insider.. I think Super Easy might be a good option too if you want to go down the Darci line for a good price.

You have got to love his mother and remember that's all part of the equation on whether or not a sire has a chance of being successful. [in my opinion.]

 

To see what I mean, have a look at the two best younger stallions in this country in Savabeel and Darci Brahma. If you want further proof have a look at O'Reilly.

 

Of course every successful sire in the world doesn't have a mum as good as those ones, but it certainly helps when one is trying to decide on who to use of the news boys that are are put before us each and every year. 

[Berri 2,131]

Darci Brahma is not a breed shaping stallion where as Savabeel probably is. O'Reilly probably was. I liken Darci Brahma with Volksraad...made it in NZ but not good enough to make it in Australia. Both stallions had their group one winners but at a significantly lower level in Aussie when compared to NZ. Is Savabeel worth $100,000?....if you've got 200 noms to fill up 130 bookings then he's worth it because people are willing to pay for it. If you're trying to improve your breed and you've got a nice group winning/ producing mare, then subject to pedigree match and type match, you would go to Savabeel if you could one, afford it, and two, get in

[Huey 2,037]

Atlante fee is POA on Arion, any idea what his fee is?

[mr_gee 416]

alamoasa  12k

road to rock  5 

[Breeder 608]

The new USA based owners of Yallambee Stud in Victoria have an interesting fee structure for their new shuttle stallion , Jimmy Creed. Pay A$8 K and take the normal risk or pay A$11k and pay after the sale of the progeny and only if you make a profit. I assume that means over $11k --and I assume GST and auction fees will be in the fine print.

 

Full article is on the Informer site.

 

PS.  Can someone tell me how you put in URL links onto posts on this site --doesn't work for me like most other websites.

[Huey 2,037]

http://www.theinformant.co.nz/racing/archive/2015/04/VN36541/Jimmy-Creed-to-shuttle-to-Australia

[fitzy 143]

Some of the fees for new season sires in Oz look very optimistic. Shooting to Win very steep at $35k + gst.

By comparison Sacred Falls looks like good value as a 4 time G1 winner by a top sire at $30k.

[Huey 2,037]

Some of the fees for new season sires in Oz look very optimistic. Shooting to Win very steep at $35k + gst.

By comparison Sacred Falls looks like good value as a 4 time G1 winner by a top sire at $30k.

Yes Deep Field $20k for a G2 winner was it?

[puha 2,177]

Gulliotine has been reduced to 7k and Falkirk reduced to 4 k competitive prices in today's environment

[mr_gee 416]

Westbury announces fees 

Makfi, Reliable Man, Redwood and Swiss Ace will stand at unchanged fees at Westbury Stud in 2015.

Sire of the Gr. 1 Manawatu Sires’ Produce Stakes winner Marky Mark, Makfi will again be offered at $17,500 + GST; Reliable Man at $15,000 + GST and both Redwood and Swiss Ace will be at $10,000 + GST.

Postponed, sire of this season’s NZB South Island Filly of the Year Consensus, has had his fee reduced from $8,000 to $5,000 + GST while Red Giant’s fee has been cut from $10,000 to also $5,000 + GST.

[ADM 225]

Reliable man at $15k makes Dalgar good value

[fitzy 143]

Reliable man at $15k makes Dalgar good value

 

Other than the fact that both are grey and raced in France what is there to compare?

Reliable Man a better horse by about half a furlong in my view.

[eastern whipbird 82]

Interesting to see how the Tavistock weanlings go next week.

[mr_gee 416]

i  think   they  go great   guns  

[Huey 2,037]

Other than the fact that both are grey and raced in France what is there to compare?

Reliable Man a better horse by about half a furlong in my view.

Perhaps because ones a half brother to Dalakhani and the other is by him.

[Nasrullah 180]

Huey please.... does Group One in both hemisphere's versus a Group 3 horse not mean anything to you?

 

Am not saying Dalghar won't be a good stallion but two different class horses.

 

Reliable man $1.9m is prize money versus Dalghar $200k pounds.  

 

I am with Fitzy on this one.

[Huey 2,037]

Huey please.... does Group One in both hemisphere's versus a Group 3 horse not mean anything to you?

 

Am not saying Dalghar won't be a good stallion but two different class horses.

 

Reliable man $1.9m is prize money versus Dalghar $200k pounds.  

 

I am with Fitzy on this one.

What are you on about?

 

I am replying to the post by Fitzy as to why ADM has made the comparison between the two , nothing about their respective race records ,prizemoney or how they'll do at stud.

 

You and I both have about the same idea as to how they will do at stud at this moment in that we both have no idea. I like them both and would love to see them both go well.

[Berri 2,131]

Huey please.... does Group One in both hemisphere's versus a Group 3 horse not mean anything to you?

 

Am not saying Dalghar won't be a good stallion but two different class horses.

 

Reliable man $1.9m is prize money versus Dalghar $200k pounds.  

 

I am with Fitzy on this one.

You can't compare the two apart from the fact that they both raced in France and both have a bloodline connection. Reliable man's form is that of a middle distance horse and his form is 3 lengths behind So You Think. Dalghar's form is that he was 3 lengths behind the best sprinters in Europe but over 1400-1600m he was 1/2 length behind the best if you frank the form. For example in the Prix du Pin he was just beaten by Saphresa. Saphresa was a multiple group one winner beating the likes of Moonlight Cloud. You may remember her via the head defeat by Black Caviar in the Golden Jubilee. To frank Black Caviar's form, Moonlight Cloud won 4 group one wins after the Golden Jubilee.

And to really put the cat among the pigeons, Dalghar when winning the Group 3 Prix Du Palais-Royal ran 1400m in 1.17.40!!! That's some time.

So they're not far apart on race record.