Closing down tracks

[Suzze 0]

Guess you are right Tackle. Cant see how halfman can suggest closing so many tracks but none in Waikato/BOP area. When we have Cambridge, Matamata, Te Rapa, Te Awamutu, Paeroa, Te Aroha, Rotoua, Taupo, Tauranga, Te Teko & Thames all within about 1-2 hours of a central point would certainly seem overkill.

. . . Te Awamutu & Te Teko were mentioned by the half one

[trakdap 390]

So my view is that closing tracks will solve nothing, we need to address why no one is attending on course first before we deal with which venues should be closed, tackling ways to get non racing people interested in putting a few dollars on, making it simple fun & interesting & giving them a better chance of a return that is the direction thats needed not slashing venues to disassociate even more from the product.

Your post up until this point was good.

But please answer this.

Why on earth would you keep open a track in an area with a population of approx. 500 people.

[halfmanhalfbiscuit 0]

. . . Te Awamutu & Te Teko were mentioned by the half one

The myopia of some people is frightening and the moz's of this world highlight the exact point I'm making here. They can't see the wood for the trees.

I don't live in the Waikato and I've suggested the track closest to my home be one of the ones to be closed.

[rosie one 177]

Would include Taupo, Foxton, Paeroa but would exclude Gore

exclude foxton.....best winter track in the lower north island.....hosted other tracks meeting last winter.

[barryb 2,064]

Your post up until this point was good.

But please answer this.

Why on earth would you keep open a track in an area with a population of approx. 500 people.

Well firstly racing as a product needs to be run like an other business & its needs to ascertain where its profit is & where it is best to put its attention. No one is attending tracks where ever they are at the moment on run of the mill days anyway in any great number.

I am like the vast majority and watching from the couch is more enjoyable than attending a racecourse when there is no financial advantage from attending why would I leave the comfort of my couch.

So if this is the case for the vast majority I (like them I guess) really don't care whether the races are each week at Te Awamutu or Ellerslie as I am not going to be attending either venue. As a % of the Population more would attend Te Awamutu than a lot of the so called Metro venues & perhaps with better thinking the numbers attending these smaller provincial venues could be expanded easier than metro venues where there is more competition for the spending $.

I am not suggesting that tracks don't need to close but that we have to think a little bit smarter than just suggesting to close the smaller venues without exploring what could be done with them first. The product itself is faulty not the locations, for far to long in this country the Punter has been totally ignored & now they are voting with their feet and not attending. They are also being smart & punishing the industry by investing most of there punting $ outside of NZ in the search of better returns. The TAB's monopoly must end or the industry has no future.

[trakdap 390]

Well firstly racing as a product needs to be run like an other business & its needs to ascertain where its profit is & where it is best to put its attention. No one is attending tracks where ever they are at the moment on run of the mill days anyway in any great number.

I am like the vast majority and watching from the couch is more enjoyable than attending a racecourse when there is no financial advantage from attending why would I leave the comfort of my couch.

So if this is the case for the vast majority I (like them I guess) really don't care whether the races are each week at Te Awamutu or Ellerslie as I am not going to be attending either venue. As a % of the Population more would attend Te Awamutu than a lot of the so called Metro venues & perhaps with better thinking the numbers attending these smaller provincial venues could be expanded easier than metro venues where there is more competition for the spending $.

I am not suggesting that tracks don't need to close but that we have to think a little bit smarter than just suggesting to close the smaller venues without exploring what could be done with them first. The product itself is faulty not the locations, for far to long in this country the Punter has been totally ignored & now they are voting with their feet and not attending. They are also being smart & punishing the industry by investing most of there punting $ outside of NZ in the search of better returns. The TAB's monopoly must end or the industry has no future.

Thanks, good point.

[tackle 0]

Why does the Reefton Trotting Club race at Addington and not Reefton? and what circumstances make you galloping club different?

As far as I understand it Reefton trots still race at Reefton.

The trots have some rort, which I have never understood, whereby clubs like Reefton, Greymouth, Kaikoura, Timaru etc all hold meetings at Addington despite having their own tracks. I suspect it is another way of ripping off pokies. They probably get so much pokie money they have to find a way of giving it to Addington.

I might be wrong but I have never seen the official explanation for it.

[Ye Zhi Hao 0]

A lot of the product is ugly to watch, particularly winter racing. There are tracks that are valuable for being close to populations, but maybe develop focus on tracks that can be brought up to a standard to provide great TV coverage.

Close and sell Trentham and Manawatu which do not provide good surfaces for racing on the vast majority of days, and once a year big crowds is not a reason to keep them. Then maybe secure the rights to Foxton, redevelop course to provide great racing every 2nd week at least. A racing course, it has the soil, the available land, even totally revamp the orientation and put in a 1600m chute, additional AW track inside. Minimal facilities, but infrastructure to have vehicles providing camera coverage like Singapore in race; revamp parade, saddling enclosure to give maximum camera focus on horses in preliminaries. Courses like this may have more long term future in the next 50 years than others. Poor local population, but location has better access to horses from further afield.

C.D. Foxton main premier course. Otaki additional course and summer picnic venue.

Taranaki, also 2 courses.

Waikato and North?? South???

Courses do not necessarily need to be closed, but racing on every Saturday needs to be conducted at 1 top quality course with excellent coverage, fields and money to match. When a secondary lower grade course races on a Saturday as an additional meeting, it gets minimal coverage to the prime meeting.

[caramello 0]

Close and sell Trentham and Manawatu which do not provide good surfaces for racing on the vast majority of days, and once a year big crowds is not a reason to keep them. Then maybe secure the rights to Foxton, redevelop course to provide great racing every 2nd week at least. A racing course, it has the soil, the available land, even totally revamp the orientation and put in a 1600m chute, additional AW track inside. Minimal facilities, but infrastructure to have vehicles providing camera coverage like Singapore in race]

needs to come top quality stakes.

[caramello 0]

The real issue is why are the people not going to the track?. I live in Hamilton & have been to racing in the Waikato twice in the last year (but have attended 6 meetings in OZ in the same period) & both times not for the entire meeting, why? because racing as a product in NZ & being on-course is about eating poor quality pies/chips & stand in a bar drinking & often the facilities are tired & unattractive. Racing is up agains't a multitude of other products competing for discretionary spending that were not around 20 years ago, racing is the product that has not moved forward in a deregulated gambling environment. We need to give people reasons to return to the track & this can be addressed on 2 fronts. The current thinking is to create other events on the course outside of the racing, now thats fine but often that doesn't bring anyone other than the wine drinking $2 punter & thats good but its not enough. The encouragement of work xmas parties on course is another good move, but we need more than that, we need an injection of betting enthusiasm & to create this we need more than the TAB bookies sitting in a caravan at the back of Ellerslie offering terrible % books that offer nothing in the way of interest.

I remember Robbie Waterhouse at Te Rapa a few seasons ago with a tent on the front lawn creating a stack on interest, we need to allow more of this with perhaps a start being the Aussie Corporates on course only to generate some interest & excitement.

I can't see any logical reasons why this can't occur, I remember all the sooking the OZ TABs did over the introduction of Betfair & how it was going to destroy Australian racing, we it hasn't & in fact the TAB turnover has increased.

Recently I attended a Meeting at Cranbourne on a Sunday (the day was like a typical wet cold windy Wellington day) & with the conditions I thought no one would be there, well they were, it had been heavily promoted on TV & in the paper that get along to Cranbourne & for $15 you got a Full roast meal, glass of wine, Race Book & entry to the course (normally $10 anyway) & it worked.

So my view is that closing tracks will solve nothing, we need to address why no one is attending on course first before we deal with which venues should be closed, tackling ways to get non racing people interested in putting a few dollars on, making it simple fun & interesting & giving them a better chance of a return that is the direction thats needed not slashing venues to disassociate even more from the product.

If we could get more people on course then the clubs wouldnt struggle as hard, because, i am sure the racing clubs get sweet FA, if anything from off course betting on industry days.

So pretty much no punters oncourse no $$$ Correct me if I'm wrong.

[barryb 2,064]

Yes spot on, its going to take someone with balls in the racing industry to employ some high flying marketing people to get the thing rolling.

Its like sports teams often the best players don't make the best coaches or advisers. Racing needs some educated marketing people outside of the industry to inject some intelligent thinking & to go down a path to recovery.

This bent on taking Racing only to the main centres in not the answer, for example: Sydney is the largest city in Australasia yet its racing is in chaos, Toowoomba has some great outside thinking and its thriving in its little corner of the market.

[Ye Zhi Hao 0]

With top quality facilities, needs to come top quality stakes.

No, minimal development of oncourse facilities for public at say my idea for Foxton over the next 20 odd year period, all money on providing a racing surface from funding from Levin, Trentham, Manawatu. Stakes come from standard sources and not from the sale of assets.

[brucee 2]

This thread has started the process whereby by bottom up input can be put out there for our administrators at national and club level to digets and move forward for the betterment of the whole industry. Racing unfortuneatly in NZ has slipped into a deep recession that will become a depression if action and change is not undertaken. We are not talking about band aid stuff we need a strategy that can return the industry into a vibrant and popular hobby, profession or past time depending on where you lie. Closing racecourses in itself is not the answer but surely the number we have at present is completley unsustainable. We cannot step back in time and return some of these tracks to their former glory. Time has moved on and todays people have so many more choices on where they spend their time and money. Its a phenomena many sports, industries and towns have or are experiencing. It is a worldwide progression so racing is not that special. So what is the answer? As others have already stated fewer facilities with far better facilities is a start. Better tracks better facilities better horses more professional participants and this will give a better return for owners, breeders, trainers, jockeys and the important punter. Some of our tracks just do not make it an enjoyable experience despite the club peoples best intentions. I would watch 80% of my horses from my local bar rather than drive to a dive of a course or track and judging by my local this is the same for many owners and big punters. We need bigger stakes to grab the attention of those who have the leisure dollar to contribute through ownership or punting. Look at othe successful models and it is not that difficult. If clubs do not work together with some strong leadership from the top we will continue to gain pace down the slippery slope we are on. In 10 years time there will be less club less participants(trainers club officials) just look at how rugby clubs and industries have disappeared. Its called progress and we might not like it but we can not change it. So yes there will and should be track closures so we should work with it not against it. Some will still have one or two meetings a year and these should still be big days both in stakes crowd and turnover. Good races attract good turnover. Then bigger stakes.

[moz1047 93]

The only clubs we need are Ellerslie and Te Rapa in north,Awapuni and Hastings or Otaki in central and Riccarton in south.Build an all weather track at Paeroa and also do the track up there like they did at Te Rapa.Then have jumps racing all winter there.

And where are the horses, owners, trainers & new punters going to come from Redrew

[moz1047 93]

So why should the whole of NZ racing not be changed because of a few of these one off meetings a year, we all need to move on, this is what got us to where we are,think of the good of the whole industry as a whole, not just one of self centered clubs. The industry is much bigger than one person or one club. Sure there will be casualties along the way, but it has to be that way to improve from what we have now, or are you happy with the status quo, and may i ask do you own and race horses??

And why should Ellerslie, Trentham, etc continue to race when they are an emormous drain on the NZ racing scene. To answer your question. No I do not race horses at the moment but certainly have done in the past few years. Certainly would not if they only had metro clubs to race at.

[moz1047 93]

clubs in NZ, wouldn't that be the best place to start drawing lines??

Definitely plus those on leased land.

[trakdap 390]

And where are the horses, owners, trainers & new punters going to come from Redrew

Moz,

The population has grown over the years ,but racing has stood still, even worse gone backward.

[moz1047 93]

Moz,

The population has grown over the years ,but racing has stood still, even worse gone backward.

Agree trackdap and also agree that some rationalisation is needed. However without a lot further investigating, etc I do not believe it should necessarily be the country tracks that are closed willy nilly because of population. From my 50+ years exposure to racing the major players do not/did not strat at the Ellerslies, Trenthams, etc of this world. I agree with many other contributors here that we must look at why people are not going on track. With costs, etc today people will not travel too far to a day at the races. Therefore if we close down tracks near to them they will be lost to the industry as owners & punters which I believe is happening now. I dont want to get Laurie started but certainly agree section 16 has a lot to answer for. Lets get things back on a level playing field and let the successful clubs (with their local backing) eventually take over the unsuccessful ones regardless of whether that is Ellerslie or wherever.

[trakdap 390]

Agree trackdap and also agree that some rationalisation is needed. However without a lot further investigating, etc I do not believe it should necessarily be the country tracks that are closed willy nilly because of population. From my 50+ years exposure to racing the major players do not/did not strat at the Ellerslies, Trenthams, etc of this world. I agree with many other contributors here that we must look at why people are not going on track. With costs, etc today people will not travel too far to a day at the races. Therefore if we close down tracks near to them they will be lost to the industry as owners & punters which I believe is happening now. I dont want to get Laurie started but certainly agree section 16 has a lot to answer for. Lets get things back on a level playing field and let the successful clubs (with their local backing) eventually take over the unsuccessful ones regardless of whether that is Ellerslie or wherever.

You are right.

Lots more needs to be done , things need to be nutted out and worked through in due process.

[barryb 2,064]

Heres a question for everybody.

As an entertainment spectacle on-course racing is an extremely poor product for the time involved, 10 races spread over 7 hours for what a sum total of 20 mins entertainment this is where the problem is. Would you go to a cricket match all day to watch 10 overs bowled, 1 over then 35 mins break before the next one, no you wouldn't.

That style of entertainment was fine 20 years ago when options were limited but today many can't even be bothered going for 2 hours of Rugby.

The issue is does the entertainment value out weigh the hassle in attending?.

Solve this problem and more will attend.

[scooby3051 10,927]

And why should Ellerslie, Trentham, etc continue to race when they are an emormous drain on the NZ racing scene. To answer your question. No I do not race horses at the moment but certainly have done in the past few years. Certainly would not if they only had metro clubs to race at.

because they are where the people are, and if there were less options of racetracks and the same amount of race clubs, BUT they had to race at one of the specified tracks in their region, all the tracks would be better managed and would hopefully all turn back to profitability. There is absolutely no reason to keep some small track open where there is a population of 500 as opposed to a city metropolitan track.Yes some profitable clubs may have to move but so what, times change and we need to change with them.Past is past gone.

[Turny 1,224]

Heres a question for everybody.

As an entertainment spectacle on-course racing is an extremely poor product for the time involved, 10 races spread over 7 hours for what a sum total of 20 mins entertainment this is where the problem is. Would you go to a cricket match all day to watch 10 overs bowled, 1 over then 35 mins break before the next one, no you wouldn't.

That style of entertainment was fine 20 years ago when options were limited but today many can't even be bothered going for 2 hours of Rugby.

The issue is does the entertainment value out weigh the hassle in attending?.

Solve this problem and more will attend.

This post identifies the major reason we do not go to the track - long winded and boring - First race at 1pm 8 races with the last at 3.30pm then we may go

[scooby3051 10,927]

Heres a question for everybody.

As an entertainment spectacle on-course racing is an extremely poor product for the time involved, 10 races spread over 7 hours for what a sum total of 20 mins entertainment this is where the problem is. Would you go to a cricket match all day to watch 10 overs bowled, 1 over then 35 mins break before the next one, no you wouldn't.

That style of entertainment was fine 20 years ago when options were limited but today many can't even be bothered going for 2 hours of Rugby.

The issue is does the entertainment value out weigh the hassle in attending?.

Solve this problem and more will attend.

That is part of it, but low class stake money attracts low class horses too, it all needs to work together to form a product that you can not afford to miss, not whether or not you should go. This is what we should be trying to acheive, not every meeting will be like that but surely we can have premier type days with good crowds and great atmosphere??

[Gerrymir00 24]

I know we each have our own preferred codes but maybe those courses that currently/potentially could accomodate dual code meetings...now I am off to duck for cover : )

[myk 4]

exclude foxton.....best winter track in the lower north island.....hosted other tracks meeting last winter.

Last 3 meetings been H10-11.Is that the description of a good track.