RaceCafe..#1...Tipsters Thread.... Share Your Fancies For Fun...Lets See Who The Best Tipsters Here Are.
mcmissile

Trouble brewing......

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It wouldn't matter what NZ trainers did or didn't do. To start with , betting on NZ races on the Aus TABs would stop, then political pressure would come on here, along the lines of 'this barbaric sport has been banned in Australia and it is a disgrace that we allow it to continue" bla bla bla. The NZ industry would get sucked down the plughole, one way or the other.

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Wake up Slim, its been, and is happening here. Everybody within the code knows this. Its normal practice by some big names. I know this as doe's most others within the code. The NZGRA know this to, but will throw their unblemished hands up in shock horror. But i'm afraid they had a whistle blower 10 yrs ago and chose to ban cell phones instead. Didn't do anything about the live baiting then, and are only throwing their hands up in horror now because of whats going down in Aus. They make me vomit.

Well you can carry on loading the gun of demise for racing in nz by making statements on a public forum that clearly arent public knowledge.....well they arent yet but your doing a fantastic job of trying to change that.

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The public aren't stupid, and to be honest it pisses people off to be told "we're very shocked, but we don't think it's a wide-spread problem", or "we're confident it's not happening here".

I think it's very sad that it takes something like this to kick the people running the industry into action. There has been too much conflict of interest, personal agendas at play, and general lack of motivation to really find out what may have been going on, but if the industry wants a future then that level of complacency or ignorance isn't going to cut it anymore. I liken it to the ICC's handling of match-fixing claims - I think there is a genuine lack of desire to uncover the extent of the goings on for fear of the revelations sinking the sport.

Earlier in the thread there was a suggestion that owners were an innocent party in all of this. I am not sure you can make that kind of generalisation. Sure, there may be some who were unaware that their dogs were being trained this way, but many others who either knew and did nothing about it, or actively encouraged their trainers to do this. Knowing and doing nothing is almost as bad as doing it yourself, and actively encouraging it is equally as bad as doing it.

As an industry participant, if you want to see the sport continue, and to be conducted without this awful training method and without doping of dogs, you have an obligation to report any knowledge you have of this type of thing going on. If you are not taken seriously or your information not followed up appropriately, then I think it's fair to say the sport is doomed and the lure is rolling for the race to oblivion.

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aquaman, on 19 Feb 2015 - 11:35 PM, said:

Wake up Slim, its been, and is happening here. Everybody within the code knows this. Its normal practice by some big names. I know this as doe's most others within the code. The NZGRA know this to, but will throw their unblemished hands up in shock horror. But i'm afraid they had a whistle blower 10 yrs ago and chose to ban cell phones instead. Didn't do anything about the live baiting then, and are only throwing their hands up in horror now because of whats going down in Aus. They make me vomit.

Aquaman stop talking shyte... either name the people of piss off... I am tired of some in here who can not back up total crap with any form of evidence..last warning...

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<p>

alltheway!!!, on 19 Feb 2015 - 11:46 PM, said: yep, there was another case a few years ago when several trainers were caught live killing on the cambridge track at about midnight, never actualy heard the outcome of this. Live baiting has happened for years in this industry and many big and small trainers are probably still out there doing it now thinking what happened in aus wont happen here

And the same applies to you put up shut up or piss off....I am done with you lot...I have warned you all MANY times.</p>

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<p>Aquaman and Alltheway are now moderated indefinitely the next one in here posting untrue nonsense without names or proof is gone and gone for good... There is enough heat about the subject without faceless no name keyboard warriors talking of this happening and that happening, either post under your real name, or put names to the people you are accusing...simple!!!</p>

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Mr. Waters, Perhaps you could ring the 0800 Integrity number with your concerns?. I have no doubt what you are inferring has substance . The Integrity unit will follow up  your claims with the upmost Integerous intensions and perhaps solve the underlying problems that  seem to have existed  for a long time...I wish you luck on behalf  of all of the concerned and the thought of being moderated must be worse than anything you have experienced...?:) 

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No its not, someone hiding cameras is what got them in the poo

So Samsung should harbour the blame because they made the camera?

 

If the camera caught them chasing ice cream cones, the hidden camera's wouldn't be as much in question because the trainers would have never know they were there.

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<p>Aquaman and Alltheway are now moderated indefinitely the next one in here posting untrue nonsense without names or proof is gone and gone for good... There is enough heat about the subject without faceless no name keyboard warriors talking of this happening and that happening, either post under your real name, or put names to the people you are accusing...simple!!!</p>

Unfortunately it's this type of attitude that has our code in the position it is at present, burying our heads in the sand and ignoring a problem without absolute proof even though something is widespread and known to most in the code to be true.

I don't have to go out with a video camera to know something is happening but I guess we can't voice an opinion now without this, a shame it has come to this.

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Unfortunately it's this type of attitude that has our code in the position it is at present, burying our heads in the sand and ignoring a problem without absolute proof even though something is widespread and known to most in the code to be true.

I don't have to go out with a video camera to know something is happening but I guess we can't voice an opinion now without this, a shame it has come to this.[/quote

Correct you cant, the rules of this site have been made clear to us all from the start, no unsubstantiated claims and slander without evidence.

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I am sorry if i have caused any trouble, but i do find it hard to believe that this is not going on in our industry.

I am just as concerned about the trouble this issue could cause in nz greyhounds after watching this unfold in aus and I feel rather concerned when the head of our industry have come out and said that this is not happening in nz without any research into this at all.

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I heard the animal welfare officer on the radio this morning and he said that there had been no convictions for this in at least the last 20 years

that only means that the surveillance is weak...it's a boasting that actually proves their testing is probabley ineffective

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brainstorm, on 20 Feb 2015 - 08:13 AM, said:

Mr. Waters, Perhaps you could ring the 0800 Integrity number with your concerns?. I have no doubt what you are inferring has substance . The Integrity unit will follow up your claims with the upmost Integerous intensions and perhaps solve the underlying problems that seem to have existed for a long time...I wish you luck on behalf of all of the concerned and the thought of being moderated must be worse than anything you have experienced...? :)

You wanna join them...happy to oblige. :D

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mcmissile, on 20 Feb 2015 - 08:51 AM, said:

Unfortunately it's this type of attitude that has our code in the position it is at present, burying our heads in the sand and ignoring a problem without absolute proof even though something is widespread and known to most in the code to be true.

I don't have to go out with a video camera to know something is happening but I guess we can't voice an opinion now without this, a shame it has come to this.

If you have proof stand behind it name and shame them,if not I am not interested in he said she said nonsense..get it.

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I understand what you're saying Scooby - but how is anyone able to prove anything? Seeing something with your own eyes does not constitute "proof", it constitutes information. This basically means that unless someone can provide video evidence to post along with their comments, then they aren't allowed to say anything.

In my view, naming people (as you've asked) is a more dangerous proposition than merely the suggestion that this is going on (without naming names) as the former risks libel territory.

If we separate the issue of RaceCafe posting and the issue of live baiting, it is not up to individuals to prove the information they have about live baiting - it is up to them to report the information to the relevant people, and for those relevant people to investigate and see if they can substantiate that information. If people are told not to report unless they have "proof", then nothing will ever change and more poor defenceless animals will die under horrible circumstances.

I have said this before on this thread but I will say it again... the only way this terrible behaviour gets eliminated is if people are encouraged to come forward with information.

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Racing84, on 20 Feb 2015 - 5:38 PM, said:

I understand what you're saying Scooby - but how is anyone able to prove anything? Seeing something with your own eyes does not constitute "proof", it constitutes information. This basically means that unless someone can provide video evidence to post along with their comments, then they aren't allowed to say anything.

In my view, naming people (as you've asked) is a more dangerous proposition than merely the suggestion that this is going on (without naming names) as the former risks libel territory.

If we separate the issue of RaceCafe posting and the issue of live baiting, it is not up to individuals to prove the information they have about live baiting - it is up to them to report the information to the relevant people, and for those relevant people to investigate and see if they can substantiate that information. If people are told not to report unless they have "proof", then nothing will ever change and more poor defenceless animals will die under horrible circumstances.

I have said this before on this thread but I will say it again... the only way this terrible behaviour gets eliminated is if people are encouraged to come forward with information.

Thats all fine if you don't own the site. I will not have this place become a place for rumors and rubbish to be spread, if people know it has been happening and know who has been doing it by naming and shaming them or at least posting under your real name then gives some form of credibility to it all then if they are telling porkies they are easy to trace, this he said she said kids school playground stuff does nobody any good and it will not be happening as long as I own this place. As I said I am happy for you guys to go hell for leather on anything, as long as the story and the facts are true and can be backed up...not to hard I wouldn't have thought???

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I have said this before on this thread but I will say it again... the only way this terrible behaviour gets eliminated is if people are encouraged to come forward with information.

Here's a completely hypothetical scenario.

 

Let's say I saw "Jose" load up his van with a greyhound & a small animal crate at 11PM (odd taking his dog & cat to the vet at this hour).

 

R84 saw "Jose's" van in the parking lot at a racetrack, while driving past it at 11:30PM and faintly heard an odd squeal of a small animal (or is that squeaky brake playing up again?).

 

Scooby saw "Jose's" van at 11:45PM at a petrol station with a greyhound in the back which was panting very heavily (don't those greyhounds ever calm down?).

 

Not one of the three of us are going to walk the Cambridge track that night. Not one of us are going to pick up the phone & ring 0800. None of us have witnessed or even suspect a crime.

 

At 8:00am the next morning we all log in to Racecafe and post about the silly thing we saw/heard last night, then the 0800#  might start ringing off the hook.

 

But we won't, because we've only seen and/or heard it and that's against the rules.

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Hey, scooby doo,

 

Can you please tell us all just how easy it is to name a person and provide true facts at the same time ?

From how i read what you say, is my word on here as good as i need for you to beleave what i say is in fact true, is this correct

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Craig Symes, on 20 Feb 2015 - 11:16 PM, said:

Hey, scooby doo,

Can you please tell us all just how easy it is to name a person and provide true facts at the same time ?

From how i read what you say, is my word on here as good as i need for you to beleave what i say is in fact true, is this correct

No you MUST post under your real name and be prepared to stand behind what you say... simple then it is your head in the noose not my site. Get video get pix, that is why people BELIEVE what has happened in Australia... evidence... Your industry seems to me to very incestuous and a lot of people involved love to talk badly and point the finger at others involved in it. I aint gonna allow this to become a desperate housewives type forum... facts or nothing.. stand up and say it and be prepared for the consequences or don't cast doubt over the whole industry where there no doubt tons of good honest people involved who do not need to be tarred with the same brush as the small low quality mongrels who do this type of vial thing.

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No you MUST post under your real name and be prepared to stand behind what you say... simple then it is your head in the noose not my site. Get video get pix, that is why people BELIEVE what has happened in Australia... evidence... Your industry seems to me to very incestuous and a lot of people involved love to talk badly and point the finger at others involved in it. I aint gonna allow this to become a desperate housewives type forum... facts or nothing.. stand up and say it and be prepared for the consequences or don't cast doubt over the whole industry where there no doubt tons of good honest people involved who do not need to be tarred with the same brush as the small low quality mongrels who do this type of vial thing.

love it, best statement yet.thank you

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