alltheway!!! 640 Report post Posted February 5, 2015 In aus, they tend to give most dogs a start as there grading system allows for it, i am also pretty sure group one winners get automatic entrance into group races, as for winsome jenny, any dog that can run 29.49 at wanganui should be in the auck cup (alot quicker than the likes of fast archer, blitzing mayhem,and jannik have ever run there race day which is saying something) As for my previous comments reilly, I stand by them as winsome jenny has been making huge improvements with each run, idt thrilling georga would have beat winsome jenny if the wellington cup was this week dustydreamnz 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yankiwi 782 Report post Posted February 5, 2015 What dog from the northern district has Winsome Jenny beat? The only one I'm aware of was Thrilling Style, which was a 14/1 outsider in her heat. How would Thrilling Geroga fare in a race today against Blitzing Mayhem, Fast Archer or Jannik at Manukau, yet TG ran down WJ on her home track? While I agree WJ has heaps of talent and a very bright future ahead of her, I don't think she's nearly ready yet for the big time. How has another bitch from the same kennels named Sweet Rubyjane done since the acid test of racing against some competition of similar tallent? SR was the CD "buzz" dog over the winter and where is she now when it's time to shine? SR won two C1 races at Manukau in 30.31 followed by a 30.29. After that she won a C3 there in 30.24. Next up in a C4 field finished 6th in 30.49, and her last 527m run, again in C4, was an 8th in 30.89. There were far better dogs back then in C5 that SR didn't even get the chance to look at, other than in the kennel block. Let's face it, to contest an Auckland cup this year a dog will have to beat other greyhounds of similar talent. To win a Wellington Cup this year you needed only to beat the best the CD could offer at the time. That's a BIG difference in my opinion! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bar Bar Black Sheep 45 Report post Posted February 5, 2015 Very fast time but a bit hard to believe the time as what that says she ran faster than the very best greyhound NZ has produced for many a year "Blitzing Mahem" (record book to prove) but well done. I personally believe if you are not class 5 you do not deserve a start in a Group1 Race if it is not restricted age, but in saying that if the club lets you in then so be it. As Its very easy to win a C1 race with a speedster greyhound, its a lot different when your up the grades racing against seasoned professional dogs at c5 level. If the dog can't take a knock or two then out goes their confidence and next thing you have a Cat, for instance put her on the inside of Jannik at his best or Cawbourne Crouch those sorts of dogs will chase through a brick wall and cut straight in on the first bend and against a c1 dog that will Knock their confidence like nothing else, only my thoughts cheers Yankiwi 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alltheway!!! 640 Report post Posted February 5, 2015 I feel that this situation is a different story, I had said from day one that Sweet ruby jane would not make it in top grade as she had to lead to win and SRJ did not have much early pace to begin with (I had a decent discussion about this already) Winsome jenny has come from last in almost every start in the country so far and has been running decent enough times to compete, she has beaten the best the c.d has to offer already (running 2nd in the wellington cup) and has only improved since then also, winsome jenny has a very strong middle split which is what (in my opinion) makes a middle distance dog top class unlike SRJ who was super strong Yankiwi 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yankiwi 782 Report post Posted February 6, 2015 I feel that this situation is a different story, I had said from day one that Sweet ruby jane would not make it in top grade as she had to lead to win and SRJ did not have much early pace to begin with (I had a decent discussion about this already) Winsome jenny has come from last in almost every start in the country so far and has been running decent enough times to compete, she has beaten the best the c.d has to offer already (running 2nd in the wellington cup) and has only improved since then also, winsome jenny has a very strong middle split which is what (in my opinion) makes a middle distance dog top class unlike SRJ who was super strong Fair enough Alltheway. While we both feel WJ has heaps of talent, we can have differing opinions on how far forward we believe she is before an acid test has actually been run. What's even better, we've done so without calling each other names. Hopefully for all of greyhound threads in Racecafe, the tide has begun to change. iteruka and alltheway!!! 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dustydreamnz 493 Report post Posted February 6, 2015 What dog from the northern district has Winsome Jenny beat? The only one I'm aware of was Thrilling Style, which was a 14/1 outsider in her heat. How would Thrilling Geroga fare in a race today against Blitzing Mayhem, Fast Archer or Jannik at Manukau, yet TG ran down WJ on her home track? While I agree WJ has heaps of talent and a very bright future ahead of her, I don't think she's nearly ready yet for the big time. How has another bitch from the same kennels named Sweet Rubyjane done since the acid test of racing against some competition of similar tallent? SR was the CD "buzz" dog over the winter and where is she now when it's time to shine? SR won two C1 races at Manukau in 30.31 followed by a 30.29. After that she won a C3 there in 30.24. Next up in a C4 field finished 6th in 30.49, and her last 527m run, again in C4, was an 8th in 30.89. There were far better dogs back then in C5 that SR didn't even get the chance to look at, other than in the kennel block. Let's face it, to contest an Auckland cup this year a dog will have to beat other greyhounds of similar talent. To win a Wellington Cup this year you needed only to beat the best the CD could offer at the time. That's a BIG difference in my opinion! Hard to compare her with Sweet Rubyjane though, she was injury prone and inconsistent. Winsome Jenny has never been out of the first two. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yankiwi 782 Report post Posted February 6, 2015 Hard to compare her with Sweet Rubyjane though, she was injury prone and inconsistent. Winsome Jenny has never been out of the first two. With all due respect Dusty, once the facts are gathered a totally different story emerges. Sweet Rubyjane won 7 of her first 8 races and finished 3rd in the one she didn't win. Far from inconsistent early on in my opinion. Winsome Jenny has had 5 runs in the country, winning three & finishing 2nd twice. In that mix was a scratching because of "injury" from race #8 during a Wanganui meet on 21 January. https://www.thedogs.co.nz/catch-the-action/11540/stewards-report.aspx If SRJ is to be considered injury prone having run 9 races before a spell, I'd suggest that WJ is much more injury prone, having to be scratched after only one start in the country. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dustydreamnz 493 Report post Posted February 6, 2015 Sweet Rubyjane didn't perform in the top company that Winsome Jenny has though and had about twice as many starts as before being injured. She had 7 starts in c5 for 1 win and 6 unplaced runs so that's not a superior record to Winsome Jenny. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yankiwi 782 Report post Posted February 7, 2015 Sweet Rubyjane didn't perform in the top company that Winsome Jenny has though and had about twice as many starts as before being injured. She had 7 starts in c5 for 1 win and 6 unplaced runs so that's not a superior record to Winsome Jenny. What "top company" has Winsome Jenny raced against and won? Here form line says she won 3 races thus far, all in C1. Sweet Rubyjane beat Royal Runner & Ritza Danny grade C5 in 29.84 at Hatrick during the middle of winter. https://www.thedogs.co.nz/catch-the-action/11310/90946/result-detail.aspx With that said, I don't believe any of the "top company" is normally based in the CD. Statistically the "top company" is in the south, with the north just behind. The CD is a distant 3rd and ahead of only The Chatham Islands, where greyhound races are not held. alltheway!!! and gary1 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dustydreamnz 493 Report post Posted February 7, 2015 Nearly winning the Wellington Cup is top company. Thrilling Georga is at least as good as Ritza Danny and Royal Runner in my opinion and she did it in half the number of starts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquaman 1,352 Report post Posted February 7, 2015 Nearly winning the Wellington Cup is top company. Thrilling Georga is at least as good as Ritza Danny and Royal Runner in my opinion and she did it in half the number of starts. The Wellington Cup is no guide. Weakest Gp1 of the yr. In fact, why its still Gp1 is the question. gary1, Yankiwi and brainstorm 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alltheway!!! 640 Report post Posted February 7, 2015 Talking about weak group races, how is the futurity race at addington a group 2, that has to be one of the weakest group fields i have ever seen, makes the wellington cup field look like champions dustydreamnz 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alltheway!!! 640 Report post Posted February 7, 2015 As for that statemrnt, the wellington cup is normally a great race, trainers were just afraid to race there dogs on the track dustydreamnz and Yankiwi 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alltheway!!! 640 Report post Posted February 8, 2015 Did anyone else see the wellington cup winner today because I couldnt. it was so far back that the dog was of screen throughout the race what does that say about those top c.d dogs? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kinetic 124 Report post Posted February 8, 2015 to me, yes celebrate a dog running a very fast time at Hatrick....and that shows potential. But what are we arguing about here? i dont see the big deal.....most imports that come in have issues or tickets, if they didnt then they would still be racing for top dollar in aus. Take SRjane, half sister to mammy brown.........on pedigree alone, yes the bit chilli's can be abit iffy...but the fact that dogs from this line to multiple sires are ending up here is a clear sign that the line can throw a dodgy one. W jenny, half sister to Mi ti pa who has gone from c5 to c1 i believe, again dogs from multiple sires from the same damline ending up in nz....clear signs there that this line may throw some issues....not to all the dogs but the odd one, that clearly has talent, is worth the airfare and the effort or the price (due to the issues and the increase risk, these dogs will be cheaper). Im an import fan, especially because these dogs can really run, and as long as we are diligent with our FS; these bitches can hopefully drop the odd litter in nz and inject quality. Others may differ in opinion as they cud be throwing these dodgy traits into there offspring..... but not all the pups are showing these traits, just the odd one that needs confidence or the finish on.........Jenny is a litter mate to Winsome Jacko.......he is an absolute flying machine. I think we just have to accept that these dogs, although super talented, may do things abit differently from time to time. Putting it all together will see these dogs reach open class and compete at group level, some will....some wont. no big deal. These are quality dogs from quality lines racing on our soil, so enjoy it, bet against it them now and then as they will be favs, accept their flaws......but revel in their class, because v few in nz have the cash to purchase quality 520m dogs with no issues and our breeding system just isnt breeding enough group dogs....yet. GONSTA and Slim Shady 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alltheway!!! 640 Report post Posted February 8, 2015 My geuss would be w jenny was sold because the better one in the litter is still in aus, from what i have seen, the finns have some super dogs amongst there ranks in the moment, with the likes of w prince, anything less and full litter brother to jenny, w mission who does everything wrong (misses the jump, runs wide) and still runs 29.60 at wenty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yankiwi 782 Report post Posted February 9, 2015 If SRJ is to be considered injury prone having run 9 races before a spell, I'd suggest that WJ is much more injury prone, having to be scratched after only one start in the country. Scratched again today. https://www.tab.co.nz/racing/#2015-02-09-m9-r10 We can now make it 2 scratchings from 7 overall entries. That's over 25%. . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dustydreamnz 493 Report post Posted February 9, 2015 to me, yes celebrate a dog running a very fast time at Hatrick....and that shows potential. But what are we arguing about here? i dont see the big deal.....most imports that come in have issues or tickets, if they didnt then they would still be racing for top dollar in aus. Take SRjane, half sister to mammy brown.........on pedigree alone, yes the bit chilli's can be abit iffy...but the fact that dogs from this line to multiple sires are ending up here is a clear sign that the line can throw a dodgy one. W jenny, half sister to Mi ti pa who has gone from c5 to c1 i believe, again dogs from multiple sires from the same damline ending up in nz....clear signs there that this line may throw some issues....not to all the dogs but the odd one, that clearly has talent, is worth the airfare and the effort or the price (due to the issues and the increase risk, these dogs will be cheaper). Im an import fan, especially because these dogs can really run, and as long as we are diligent with our FS; these bitches can hopefully drop the odd litter in nz and inject quality. Others may differ in opinion as they cud be throwing these dodgy traits into there offspring..... but not all the pups are showing these traits, just the odd one that needs confidence or the finish on.........Jenny is a litter mate to Winsome Jacko.......he is an absolute flying machine. I think we just have to accept that these dogs, although super talented, may do things abit differently from time to time. Putting it all together will see these dogs reach open class and compete at group level, some will....some wont. no big deal. These are quality dogs from quality lines racing on our soil, so enjoy it, bet against it them now and then as they will be favs, accept their flaws......but revel in their class, because v few in nz have the cash to purchase quality 520m dogs with no issues and our breeding system just isnt breeding enough group dogs....yet. I thought this site was for debating things amongst other things. Yankiwi 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alltheway!!! 640 Report post Posted March 5, 2015 Have to say very ordinary run tonight, i thought she was only ordinary sunday too, first split wasnt bad, huge 2nd split (15.27) but ran home in a rather shocking 15.07, reminds me a little of bigtime kinvara, just not as fast early. I feel she will have to start getting on the pace more often racing in this grade or yankiwi could be right, sweet ruby jame all over again Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
