Alesha_666 45 Report post Posted January 25, 2015 Hahaha yrs i gave the Cd team the prep talk before the race and told karen about this convo on race cafe...and much to my dismay the northener got it!!! I have to admit the best dog won on friday night and well done to karen much deserved win.We need get our butts into gear round here. Yankiwi 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yankiwi 782 Report post Posted February 4, 2015 Does anyone know why a C2D graded distance dog would be on the reserve bench while two C1D graded dogs have made the $11K distance final to be held at Hatrick on Friday night? https://www.thedogs.co.nz/catch-the-action/11560/93198/field-detail.aspx The noms for the heats, which were not run, closed 26 January (prior to the downgrade rule taking effect). None of the dogs has had a distance race since the noms closed for those cancelled heats. Therefore, on the 1st when the new rules took effect, the #2 and #5 were downgraded to C1D while the #9 retained it's C2D grade as it won 3 back & has had 2 fourths since. I thought the highest graded dog has preference over lesser graded dogs. Could it be the selection was prematurely done prior to the closing of noms for the meet? Any other ideas? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hound Fan 577 Report post Posted February 4, 2015 Simple , when noms for the race closed they were c2 , it does not matter if there where no heats noms closed before the downgrade rule came into effect . Yankiwi 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashoka 1,179 Report post Posted February 4, 2015 Hound Fan... I think that you may be wrong on this. The nominations for the Final officially closed on 2 February 2015. The fact that no heats were run and the Final Field could be declared early is a matter of convenience, but the official closing times should still apply. Therefore, the Field should be that applicable on 2 February. Cheers. Ashoka alltheway!!! and Yankiwi 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yankiwi 782 Report post Posted February 4, 2015 Hound Fan... I think that you may be wrong on this. The nominations for the Final officially closed on 2 February 2015. The fact that no heats were run and the Final Field could be declared early is a matter of convenience, but the official closing times should still apply. Therefore, the Field should be that applicable on 2 February. Cheers. Ashoka That's exactly what I was thinking Ashoka. I guess I didn't do a very good job of conveying my thoughts. alltheway!!! 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alltheway!!! 640 Report post Posted February 4, 2015 I can see both sides of the coin here, but at the end of the day we do want to see the best dogs racing and i do feel that thrilling logic deserves its place in this race over who dat boy (i hope i do not offend the connections to this dog as he does look like he could be a promising stayer) and would go close to winning this dustydreamnz and Yankiwi 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashoka 1,179 Report post Posted February 4, 2015 Yankiwi... It was most astute of you to pick up this anomaly and your post contained all the relevant facts. It will be interesting to see what the outcome of this matter is. All the best. Ashoka Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hay 12 Report post Posted February 4, 2015 No offence taken. Who dat boy is still graded c2d but i think that it has somthing to do with the time from his last distance starts as there is a three month window that the club take form in from and he hasnt had a distance race in that time. (could be wrong but just cant see any other reason, havnt asked club as im not stressing) At end of day Dogs still young..... trainer just and young and we are both learning, if we get a opportunity through scratching then id be grateful, if not theres alway another race. dustydreamnz, Slim Shady, Jabba2 and 2 others 5 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
punkrock 127 Report post Posted February 4, 2015 The noms closed monday the 26th of January. The final field was decided on monday the 26th of January as there was less than 14 noms received. As per every time there is a feature with heats and only a final run with the field for the final put out when the noms for the heats closed. dustydreamnz and it's a ballroom 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yankiwi 782 Report post Posted February 4, 2015 The noms closed monday the 26th of January. The final field was decided on monday the 26th of January as there was less than 14 noms received. As per every time there is a feature with heats and only a final run with the field for the final put out when the noms for the heats closed. The noms for the heats closed Monday the 26th. Less than 14 noms were received. The noms for the final closed Monday the 2nd. Two C1D dogs were selected to the field over a dog graded C2D. "As per every time...." doesn't necessarily mean that thing have been done properly in the past. However, this case is very different to any past events. Grading rules have changed on 1 February whether we like it or not. I believe Who Dat Boy, being graded C2D, belongs in the field in relation to Wanganui selection criteria, which the noms closed for the meeting on 2 February. http://www.wanganuigreyhounds.co.nz/selection-criteria/ dustydreamnz 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashoka 1,179 Report post Posted February 4, 2015 Punkrock... Yankiwi is absolutely correct, in my opinion. This is an exceptional situation caused by the timing of the alteration to the downgrading Rules. The Rules must be adhered to. Please consider the following: A Final field declared after the nominations close and there are no heats comprises ten dogs. Prior to the nominations for the Final closing, two dogs in the original eight are hurt and are withdrawn from the Final field. What field is actually carded...i.e. the Final Field? It will be an eight dog field with no emergencies, not a ten dog field with two emergencies. All the best. Ashoka Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
punkrock 127 Report post Posted February 4, 2015 The noms for the race closed on the 26th of January. The feild for the final was declared on the 26th of January. End of story. It's not an exceptional circumstance. The field was drawn. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iteruka 68 Report post Posted February 4, 2015 Can someone please explain. Why did dogs automatically downgrade from the 1st of Feb? Shouldn't it have been based on their next run after the 1st? Surely that would have made things easier Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashoka 1,179 Report post Posted February 4, 2015 punkrock... You may be right, if the Rules provide for a Final field to be declared at the closing time for nominations for the heats if no heats are required. Please identify the Rules that govern the given situation. However, please look at the example I have given and tell me where I am incorrect. Thank you. Cheers. Ashoka Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashoka 1,179 Report post Posted February 4, 2015 iteruka... You are right. My guess is that the current situation is the result of the greyhound board's interpretation of the wording of the remit passed at the applicable AGM. Without the actual wording of the remit passed, it is not possible to assess the accuracy of said interpretation. All the best. Ashoka Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
punkrock 127 Report post Posted February 4, 2015 Look for the rules yourself if that's what you want to do. That's the way it's done and always been done by all clubs. Being a previous club secretary you should know this. As with all finals even ones where heats have been run, where possible 4 reserves are declared so if there are withdrawals the placements are taken to make a full field. I believe all clubs do things this way. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashoka 1,179 Report post Posted February 4, 2015 punkrock... The example I have provided is done from experience and backs up Yankiwi's point. The final field declared is that applicable AT THE TIME THAT NOMINATIONS FOR THE RACEMEETING AT WHICH THE FINAL IS TO BE RUN CLOSE. IF a Final field is listed after heat nominations close and there is no need for heats, that so-called Final field is changed to accommodate changes that occur prior to the date on which nominations close for the racemeeting at which that final is to be run. The capitals are there to draw you to the relevant point. I have tried to get you to critique my example. if you accept that my example is correct, then your position is incorrect. The reason that you are wrong is the exceptional circumstances created by the change to the downgrade rules incepted on 1 February 2015. However, all this is subject to the Rules as I referred to previously. As a current licensed trainer, I suggest you familiarise yourself with these instead of trying to pass the buck. This is a matter for the RIU to decide upon...not that I have any faith at all in their ability to correctly interpret the facts. Cheers. Ashoka Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
punkrock 127 Report post Posted February 4, 2015 Once again for the slow people. Noms closed for this race on the 26th of january!!! There is no exceptions. The field was selected on the 26th of january. alltheway!!! 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashoka 1,179 Report post Posted February 4, 2015 punkrock... As previously indicated, you may well be right. However, you inability and/or unwillingness to address the facts inherent in this matter suggest that you are not the type of person who should be in a position of responsibility in the greyhound industry. Whether you are right or wrong, your arrogant and, in my opinion, insulting manner is exactly what is wrong with the way that greyhound racing is run in New Zealand. Regards. Ashoka PS Please note that my posting is made in the belief that punkrock is a member of the Wanganui GRC Board. If I am wrong about this, I apologise to punkrock and withdraw my comments. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
punkrock 127 Report post Posted February 4, 2015 There is only 1 fact ashoka. The nominations for the race closed on the 26th of january. Not the 2nd of February. You are just trying to make a problem where there is not one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hound Fan 577 Report post Posted February 4, 2015 Look the selection of final fields has been always been the same, if no heats a final field is declared at he time of closing of nominations as said in the schedule.......there was no room for reopening of nominations for the final as is clear under rule 44.3 which covers downgrading in between meetings........Ashoka your club while you were there did this with middle distance nzgra races a few times if you look back and in those dogs might have downgraded in between noms closing and the final being run,and there was no redraw. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brainstorm 47 Report post Posted February 5, 2015 The noms closed on the 26th.. The fields were formed on that day and notified.. End of story.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brainstorm 47 Report post Posted February 5, 2015 Ashoka ....post 69 written as your opinion of Punkrock could very well be a mirror image of yourself Regards Brainstorm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashoka 1,179 Report post Posted February 5, 2015 There are two matters involved here. One is the closing of nominations and the other is the declaring of the Final field. Both are affected by the timing of the change in the downgrading Rules. If the Final field declared at the closing time of nominations of the heats is, in fact, Final, then how can this change between the so-called Final Field and the closing of nominations for all the races at the racemeeting at which the Final is run? This does, and has always, happened...these fields alter. That is the point of my example. Further, when the Final Field for this race was "finalised", it was known what the effect of the change to the downgrading Rules on 1 February would be. Does the "grading of nominated dogs at time of nominations closing" Rule override the "no C1d greyhound should be carded to run while a C2d greyhound is a reserve" Rule? Would any of you who claim to be clear about the applicable Rules be prepared to put your genitals on the line over this? I wouldn't be, that's for sure. In my opinion, this is exactly the kind of situation that requires a definitive decision from the Racing Integrity Unit. This puts the Club running the event, and those associated in the selection of and carding of the field in question, in the clear, and is one reason that the RIU was, in fact, established. Cheers. Ashoka Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashoka 1,179 Report post Posted February 5, 2015 brainstorm... Your post may be indicative of your mind...harebrained...given that I am advocating consideration of all the relevant facts while punkrock wants to close down discussion in favour of simply running with his opinion. This is the opposite of what you are insinuating. Cheers. Ashoka Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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