Weigh In - Did I hear right?? NZTR

[Ruby 160]

Did the NZTR person actually state that they have employed a project manager as a new position to look into providing the technology for recording sectionals for races and they expect a report in 3-6 months that will say if this is viable??????

That's a lot of $$$$ in pay to the project manager I would suspect - surely it's not rocket science.

[hedley 1,900]

..yet another citizen for the city of suits..sprawling into suburbia by now!

[chelseacol 2,488]

..yet another citizen for the city of suits..sprawling into suburbia by now!

 

Nothing wrong with suits Hedley - the question is do they add value

 

I think in one month of extensive travelling I could have seen the best systems  operating in UK, USA, HK and Singapore. Give me a month more to canvass anything special about NZ which makes implementation harder, and then write a report.

 

Yep looks doable to me - if they can delay start date until after Cup Week I will then put on my best suit and do the job...

[slam dunk 1,317]

The whole culture thinking of NZTR needs to change. They are the governing body not the implementer of everything.

 

Therefore its their duty to encourage whats best for racing not discourage. There are numerous solutions to providing sectionals therefore let them receive proposals and encourage something. Its all about inclusion not assuming they must control everything.

 

The simplest solution is have Trackside embed GPS time on the replay video from which someone can still freeze and do subtraction to get sectionals. It might not be super accurate and sometimes run into problems when the camera swings away from a pole marker but its something and inexpensive. Most enthusiasts just need a basic comparison and classification into fast, medium or slow pace. I might add that its also possible to automate the subtraction process so really its no big deal.

[Ashoka 1,179]

Berri...

 

What is your take on this matter?

Is this not what you are/were working on?

 

Cheers.

Ashoka

[munchakov 108]

dont worry about the project manager , worry about the money that has been spent already presumably on Berri's company that has been working on this for the last 18 months plus 

[Peter Harrop 226]

Any extra information for punters has gotta be good. Not sure doing them off a TV screen is a good idea though. If theyre going to be done, do them accurately. Otherwise there will be no confidence in them. Good initiative by NZTR to look into this.

[Aaron Bidlake 760]

Could it not be as simple as putting a microchip in the number cloth with scanners on the running rail that reads them as they go past?

[N1MUE 1,877]

Could it not be as simple as putting a microchip in the number cloth with scanners on the running rail that reads them as they go past?

Yeah thats what I was thinking.  They use those transponders to record times in marathons, fun runs, etc....  

 

I know I'm oversimplifying it but I wouldn't have thought a slightly flasher version of that would be too hard or too expensive.  And it should be relatively portable as well.

[Ohokaman 5,824]

Too simple for those morons Aaron....and six months for a report.....??? WTF...??!!!

Q " Can it be done,does the technology exist..? ".

A "Yes"

A quick look at Singapore or Hong Kong would give you the answer.

[slam dunk 1,317]

Any extra information for punters has gotta be good. Not sure doing them off a TV screen is a good idea though. If theyre going to be done, do them accurately. Otherwise there will be no confidence in them. Good initiative by NZTR to look into this.

 

N.B. Also Aaron.

 

There are 3 types of video we see.

1. Live 2. replay 3. Online 

 

All three in this day and age are far more accurate than previously. e.g previous digital videos had frames dropped. Having tested all three I can vouch that the accuracy is more than sufficient. Messing around with  saddle cloths and all the possibilties for unreliabilty is absurd when the answer is quite simple. If Trackside dosen't want the digital time live on their picture they can easily superimpose it on the video replays. OK this way we don't get individual times but this is also absurd as quite often a horse is in a pocket so sectionals don't reflect anything about it.

[bestbets 206]

Tell the Geisha to go to Alexander Park and see how it is done, save him 6mths. They have a sectional timer that breaks the race up into quarters if I remember correctly in real time, never understood how the gallops was so far behind in offering this service.

 

We want to attract overseas investment into our product and yet we must be looked upon as the hillbillies of racing. We don't even have a line going across the screen to show who won the race in tight finishes. One day they might work it out, it not that hard

[munchakov 108]

dont worry about 6 months this fiasco has already been going on for 18 months at who knows what cost

[Guest 2Admin2]

Why don't they copy what Hong Kong does?

[Berri 2,131]

dont worry about the project manager , worry about the money that has been spent already presumably on Berri's company that has been working on this for the last 18 months plus 

 

You people talk such crap....just shows how accurate your information is.

 

We have the delivery of the next version of a fully functional timing system arriving on 25th October....this year. The system will be preprogramed at the beginning of the day so no-one will have to touch it for it to operate.As the day wears on, electronically all the data will be uploaded and placed into the NZTR database for use.The key issues have not been with the NZTR but with integration. Unfortunately historic contracts with the likes of Finishlynx have not helped as we need to synchronise the start and finish automatically as we need to know when the race actually finishes. You experts at programming would obviously have known this before you posted.

 

As for Alan's role, he's a great guy with some knowledge that the NZTR desparately needs for the introduction of new technology. Others in the NZTR have not quite been able to fill those boots.

 

As to the technology you other geniuses are talking about, Trackus in Singapore is not as accuarate as you think and it costs approx NZ$1m to put it in. That's one race track. The Orade system in Hong Kong (which also has problems) cost US$5m.....one track.

 

The system we're delivering has cost NZ$60,000 to date and each new set will be about NZ$8k. It's portable so all tracks can be covered.  We are accurate to within half a meter but generally once the final system is put in it will be less than 200mm.

[Berri 2,131]

Tell the Geisha to go to Alexander Park and see how it is done, save him 6mths. They have a sectional timer that breaks the race up into quarters if I remember correctly in real time, never understood how the gallops was so far behind in offering this service.

 

We want to attract overseas investment into our product and yet we must be looked upon as the hillbillies of racing. We don't even have a line going across the screen to show who won the race in tight finishes. One day they might work it out, it not that hard

 

The Alexnder park system is not accurate enough and they are in breach of some patents. A problem but true

[slam dunk 1,317]

Why don't they copy what Hong Kong does?

 

Like they did with Triple Trio. Admin you must be lining up a job at the TAB.

 

Berri.  You are reinventing the wheel. Then the target client is probably gullible anyway. Creating a mass of useless information is worse than no information. it puts newbies off as they think its too difficult a game to gain an edge.

 

There is no need for any new technology. Just a bit of Kiwi ingenuity. Forget Singapore and Hong Kong.

[TOM(the other Molloy) 1,774]

You people talk such crap....just shows how accurate your information is.

 

We have the delivery of the next version of a fully functional timing system arriving on 25th October....this year. The system will be preprogramed at the beginning of the day so no-one will have to touch it for it to operate.As the day wears on, electronically all the data will be uploaded and placed into the NZTR database for use.The key issues have not been with the NZTR but with integration. Unfortunately historic contracts with the likes of Finishlynx have not helped as we need to synchronise the start and finish automatically as we need to know when the race actually finishes. You experts at programming would obviously have known this before you posted.

 

As for Alan's role, he's a great guy with some knowledge that the NZTR desparately needs for the introduction of new technology. Others in the NZTR have not quite been able to fill those boots.

 

As to the technology you other geniuses are talking about, Trackus in Singapore is not as accuarate as you think and it costs approx NZ$1m to put it in. That's one race track. The Orade system in Hong Kong (which also has problems) cost US$5m.....one track.

 

The system we're delivering has cost NZ$60,000 to date and each new set will be about NZ$8k. It's portable so all tracks can be covered.  We are accurate to within half a meter but generally once the final system is put in it will be less than 200mm.

So from the sounds of things you have all this under control but Campbell Moncur tells us it is three to six month project?  AND might work but might not.

 

That's what the man said last night so if it is here and due to be running later this month what is the other 2 1/2 to 5 1/2 months going to be used up doing?

 

I don't want to seem ignorant but one hand would not appear to know what the other is up to here

[chevy86 2,704]

I started a thread on Caulfield times for a premier day being no better than times at Matamata and most of the geniuses replying to that topic lambasted me for daring to raise the issue of times because they are irrelevant! And to a degree that is true--what is the point of relative sectionals when a winner has the race well in hand and is eased down while a chaser further back in the field is flogged home to get 5th prizemoney. Good punters can work out the merits of how a horse preforms by their own observations. Stop wasting money" holding the hand "of poor analysts!

[slam dunk 1,317]

I started a thread on Caulfield times for a premier day being no better than times at Matamata and most of the geniuses replying to that topic lambasted me for daring to raise the issue of times because they are irrelevant! And to a degree that is true--what is the point of relative sectionals when a winner has the race well in hand and is eased down while a chaser further back in the field is flogged home to get 5th prizemoney. Good punters can work out the merits of how a horse preforms by their own observations. Stop wasting money" holding the hand "of poor analysts!

 

Some truth there.

 

THe proponents of the chip in the cloth system will argue that it gives accurate distances a horse has traveled. In New Zealand with different tracks and track conditions many days racing will start near the rail and progressively move wider during the day. Naturally the distance traveled by the last race will be greater. Even in the same race it may be an advantage to travel more distance. With course managers moving the rail it becomes a nightmare expecting the chip in the cloth system giving reliable results as well as being expensive.

 

Therefore its a no brainer a system for Singapore or Hong Kong is not necessarily suitable for New Zealand. A still freeze gives distance from leader and how wide a horse is in the running. Most relate to lengths from leader rather than actual time from the leader.

 

Trackside boasts about its state of art equipment. Lets see what they can deliver before jumping into one of Berri's misguided adventures.

[Rambling_Kidd 160]

A stopwatch still works ... 

 

but then again I don't have $ 60,000 system to sell.  

 

[Berri 2,131]

Some truth there.

 

THe proponents of the chip in the cloth system will argue that it gives accurate distances a horse has traveled. In New Zealand with different tracks and track conditions many days racing will start near the rail and progressively move wider during the day. Naturally the distance traveled by the last race will be greater. Even in the same race it may be an advantage to travel more distance. With course managers moving the rail it becomes a nightmare expecting the chip in the cloth system giving reliable results as well as being expensive.

 

Therefore its a no brainer a system for Singapore or Hong Kong is not necessarily suitable for New Zealand. A still freeze gives distance from leader and how wide a horse is in the running. Most relate to lengths from leader rather than actual time from the leader.

 

Trackside boasts about its state of art equipment. Lets see what they can deliver before jumping into one of Berri's misguided adventures.

 

Nobody is reinventing the wheel. All someone is doing is producing a less expensive system with more features that will probably interest a wider audience. Because it is obvious slam dunk that you have no clue what is required to fully develop and test these things, then I would keep council and see the reaction when it arrives. You no doubt are one of the few that thought the America's Cup was a waste of time and effort and that the new techology developed during this process is / was also a waste of time and effort and has no appeal to others.

[Ashoka 1,179]

Berri...

 

Thank you for providing your update.

However, I take umbrage at the tone of your replies, which are condescending and insulting, in my opinion.

My correspondence with the NZRB on this subject goes back at least eight years, so, at eighteen months, you are the johnny-come-lately.

That said, I wish you all the very best with your project as the introduction of state-of-the-art timing technology right across the board is long overdue.

 

All the best.

Ashoka

[von Smallhaussen 3,226]

Could it not be as simple as putting a microchip in the number cloth with scanners on the running rail that reads them as they go past?

Oh No - please don't give them another excuse ...

Jockey to trainer - "I was just kicking up nearing the 600 and realised that I had to stop riding and keep my leg still so that the transponder could be read" ! 

[Guest 2Admin2]

I would have thought that with their brand new state of the art digital high definition trackside production facilities they would be able to collate the times off the recordings. No need for transponders.

Then again what is the point of recording times when race surfaces are inconsistent and we don't get accurate readings of conditions with which times can be correlated.