Greyhound Racing Rule 80

[Yankiwi 782]

So you would not race against dream collector either ?? You have championed this dog ( super super dog IMO too) in another thread yet it has had more than one ticket . In this thread you would have it banned !!!! The world isn't perfect mate , get over yourself . Tony

Fair enough statement Tony.

 

The difference the way I see it is I've never witnessed Dream Collector fail to pursue or attempt to mare, in my opinion, in any race I've seen him run. In addition, I've never seen in a stipe report from within our shores where the steward has had any questions on his intentions during a race. Has DC a NZ ticket which I have missed? I do not as a rule follow any greyhounds outside our boarders unless sometimes when they have a connection to NZ dog which I have followed (Have A Yap pups & so on). I don't look to import them and I don't punt on them.

 

I believe finishing on lure can, as many others do, sort out the intention of a dog during the race. There's a reward in it for them at the end of the run. Basically, they've a job to do and generally in those situations, most dogs try very hard to please the one they see as the leader of their pack (trainer).

 

My house dog, while not a greyhound, quickly gets sick of running back and forth the length of our section, without the reward of the stick or ball I had thrown. This hold true as well when the ball is left at the end other end of the section, I point out to her where it is and tell her to go get it. She does and returns to me wiggling in more ways than I thought possible. You can only tease a most dogs for so long before they lose interest, they need some sort of reward for doing the task at hand in my opinion.

[Sheepy 69]

http://fasttrack.grv.org.au/RaceVideo/RaceVideo/621480003

Dream collector in the 2. Ran 30.02 sec that night. 5days earlier went 29.35 in a 4 dog trial...

[Yankiwi 782]

I have no doubt what his intentions were in the run home in that video.

 

Do they finish on lure at that track?

 

It was my belief that it's is not allowed in Aussie anywhere, but that's only hear say which I've never doubted.

 

I do wish in similar situations, which I feel has happened recently in NZ, a ticket is issued and done so in a proper fashion were it could even be upheld by the JCA if an appeal is filed. At least following on from that situation, I don't believe a dog can comprehend how close he was to being held to justice in the way I see fit (the rules) and would expect a similar performance to be seen coming from him in the future.

 

Hopefully I'm proven wrong!

[pilli 81]

The difference the way I see it is I've never witnessed Dream Collector fail to pursue or attempt to mare, in my opinion, in any race I've seen him run. In addition, I've never seen in a stipe report from within our shores where the steward has had any questions on his intentions during a race. Has DC a NZ ticket which I have missed? 

No Yankiwi,DC DOES NOT have a NZ Ticket that you have missed!

 

Quite the opposite in fact.After completing 10 clear runs here,his "slate" has been wiped clean. 

 

If he does happen to offend anytime in the future,it shall be deemed a 'first offence',with penalty to match.

 

Cheers,Pilli.

[aquaman 1,352]

So you would not race against dream collector either ?? You have championed this dog ( super super dog IMO too) in another thread yet it has had more than one ticket . In this thread you would have it banned !!!! The world isn't perfect mate , get over yourself . Tony

The subject here is blinkers. I'v yet to see Dream Collector race in blinkers. Secondly every race i'v seen Dream Collector compete in he's passed all dogs in his race, and most importantly the leading dog, then put a hole in them. Very poor comparison i would suggest.

 

Many dogs come over with tickets, but because off finishing on the lure change their attitude. Dream Collector is one such.

[aquaman 1,352]

I wonder what you would do if you had a dog with ability but it didn't quite concentrate without the blinkers ? I suppose you would not run it ( even tho it had ability) ??

I'v broken in many dogs that had real ability but failed in their attitude. These dogs no matter how good they may be just don't cut the mustard, and are quite simply not perservered with. Question, how many dogs wearing blinkers have you seen winning by more than an accidental bob of the head?.

[dustydreamnz 493]

I'm pretty sure dogs of the calibre of Little Mother and Awesome Bender weren't the keenest chasers in Australia(unaware of whether they got a ticket) but when racing here, the rest is history as they say.  Ultra consistent at the highest level.  

[alltheway!!! 640]

The majority of imports that come over are non chasers but most of them do like finishing on the lure, but this also leads to problems because when these non chasers get of the bunny, they run like they are legless

[it's a ballroom 174]

I'v broken in many dogs that had real ability but failed in their attitude. These dogs no matter how good they may be just don't cut the mustard, and are quite simply not perservered with. Question, how many dogs wearing blinkers have you seen winning by more than an accidental bob of the head?.

I watched one at manukau win by 7 1/4 lengths a few weeks ago.

[johnnybooy 52]

The majority of imports that come over are non chasers but most of them do like finishing on the lure, but this also leads to problems because when these non chasers get of the bunny, they run like they are legless

Yes and when they do not get the front, they seem to spit the dummy and  the head goes up in the air and they go backwards until they find no dogs around them, then they show speed in the home straight. A lot of these imports are super fast , but the breeding makes them cats as well

[aquaman 1,352]

I watched one at manukau win by 7 1/4 lengths a few weeks ago

So the answer to the question, how many have you seen finish first by more than a bob is one a few weeks ago. I think that answers the question. It is a rarity indeed. It would be interesting if somebody did a survey on how many dogs that have run in blinkers throughout the country over the last 6 months that have won. And of those winners what was the winning margin.

[it's a ballroom 174]

There probably aren't too many running round with blinkers on compared to without so the number of winners is bound to be vastly different. As for the margin , I didn't realise you got a bigger cheque by winning by 10 lengths as opposed to a head? As for it only being imports who don't bother when not on the bunny that is not true either. Kiwi breds do it also . Like I said before , the world ain't perfect .

[Yankiwi 782]

.... Like I said before , the world ain't perfect .

I don't think any of us expects perfection. I believe what most of us want is fairness!

 

Rules are rules for a reason and they're not made secret.

 

If the powers to be publish a "clarification" saying blinker/s have to be upright, then they should be upright shouldn't they?

 

If they are not upright then there's a reason for it. This could be several things including faulty equipment, a trainer simply not caring, or a simple oversight to name a few. Any possible excuse however doesn't make it legal. I believe a rule has been broken in those examples and it has not even been addressed by those being paid to enforce the rules. It wasn't hard for me to see this on track. It wasn't hard for me to see on the video footage. My vision is far worse than 20/20 & I don't wear corrective lenses. 

 

Regardless, the examples previously highlighted I feel clearly shows blinker/s used in a race which were not upright. Anyone else can chose to agree or disagree with that opinion. It has been written that a picture speaks a thousand words. I agree with that writing.

[aquaman 1,352]

There probably aren't too many running round with blinkers on compared to without so the number of winners is bound to be vastly different. As for the margin , I didn't realise you got a bigger cheque by winning by 10 lengths as opposed to a head? As for it only being imports who don't bother when not on the bunny that is not true either. Kiwi breds do it also . Like I said before , the world ain't perfect .

Off course the ratio of dogs with blinkers as against those without is different, thats not the point. The point is how many of these cheats wearing these mangled misshapen poorly contructed abortions win races.  If a study was done, and lets say in the last 6 mths here in NZ, there was 100 dogs which had raced, how many were winners, and yes the margin is important in their case as it would highlight that these dogs are not pursuing the lure, but rather the poor unfortunate leading dog. You yourself came up with 1 only that actually not only went past, but put a gap in them. What happened did the rest of the field fall over.

[it's a ballroom 174]

I didn't nor do I have time to check the number of dogs with blinkers , that one came straight to mind. The rest of field thankfully stayed on their feet tho . The dog ran 18.41 , imagine if it was chasing . I wonder how many dogs re offend after being put in blinkers , as opposed to those that are just left to run and run not chasing ?

[GONSTA 1,148]

I watched one at manukau win by 7 1/4 lengths a few weeks ago.

The dog he's referring to is Maramarua Jack for those wondering... We all saw how genuine he was 3 starts later tho!

[dustydreamnz 493]

That would be interesting to find out It's a Ballroom.

 I'm back to agreeing with Reilly, I don't want to knock Maramarua Jack much as he clearly has great ability but the problem I have is that when there is marring, it can dent the other dogs' confidence or perhaps in extreme cases, they never get their confidence back so I think a hard line needs to be taken when they do offend. On a positive note, it's great to see success stories coming over from Aus with the different system we have here.  

[punkrock 127]

Hypotential raced in Blinkers, he won multiple c5 races by good margins.

[Slim Shady 479]

How about this thought for a proposed change.

 

We could stage races for only those dogs/bitches wearing blinker/blinkers. Then even if not needed for any purpose other than meeting the requirements of the race, owners and trainers could choose to apply them to their animal to compete. That way people who have made a large investment in a dog, be it time, money or both, would actually have a choice.

 

Heck, if we wanted to, we could even remove the requirement for muzzles in such proposed races, but I believe dog fighting is against the law in our country, so that would probably rule this second option out.

 

Then on the other hand we could have races for only dogs/bitches not wearing blinkers with the current rules in place.

 

I wonder what the comparative handle would be if we did split the races up into these two categories?

Nice win by your dog yesterday at Waikato Yankiwi, good price too, hope you got some.

[Yankiwi 782]

Nice win by your dog yesterday at Waikato Yankiwi, good price too, hope you got some.

Interesting comment SS.

 

I did have a runner yesterday in Cambridge but unfortunately it was far from winning on that occasion. Sunday in Manukau was my day to hear the bookies swear!

 

There were however three other runners there which I have been following very closely. The first won very nicely and put a few bob in pocket. The second started from the outside & I believed would miss the ruck happening to the inside, wrong (gave the second b in bob back to the bookies). The third had his run in a race I wouldn't bet on.

[Slim Shady 479]

Interesting comment SS.

 

I did have a runner yesterday in Cambridge but unfortunately it was far from winning on that occasion. Sunday in Manukau was my day to hear the bookies swear!

 

There were however three other runners there which I have been following very closely. The first won very nicely and put a few bob in pocket. The second started from the outside & I believed would miss the ruck happening to the inside, wrong (gave the second b in bob back to the bookies). The third had his run in a race I wouldn't bet on.

Interesting for sure.

Yea $14ff for Kings Legacy was crazy money, was the roughy bet of the day! 

[Yankiwi 782]

Interesting for sure.

Yea $14ff for Kings Legacy was crazy money, was the roughy bet of the day! 

That's the one!

 

Cha Ching.

 

I returned home later that night from the track, took a rather large wad of money out of my pocket and put it on the table where I put my things when I get home.

 

My wife saw me do it and said "Hon, I think you might have a gambling problem" I pointed at the pile of notes and said "Look, what's the problem with that. It's a problem when you leave home with a pile and return empty handed" 

 

That was the end of the discussion. 

[dustydreamnz 493]

Interesting for sure.

Yea $14ff for Kings Legacy was crazy money, was the roughy bet of the day! 

He'd gone some good races over staying distances but hadn't won a middle distance race for 6 months to be fair.  Has won 6 from 62 now.  

[Yankiwi 782]

He'd gone some good races over staying distances but hadn't won a middle distance race for 6 months to be fair.  Has won 6 from 62 now.  

Can't argue with the stats can you Dusty?

 

You could've gone a bit further to say that in those 6 months prior he had only 7 middle distance runs. Four of those seven were up in grade in C2 with a form line of 5,4,4,5 in those.

 

Then in his downgrade run he ran 3rd. He followed that with a run he was totally out paced by Atom Bomb (as all others in it were) in 30:27. In Sunday's start he was one of only two that showed a history for good box speed. It was my belief that if he was either 1st or 2nd in the backstretch there'd be a pretty good chance he'd go past the leader & no-one was going to run him down.

 

Well that's they way I read the race prior to placing my bets. I'm surely biased but my race map worked out very well for me on that occasion.

 

His father, Surf Lorian, is also know to throw late bloomers. He's now 37 months old.

 

I'll finish by saying the potential was there, at huge odds, for looking a bit deeper than what the opening line of 5 from 62 had said.

[dustydreamnz 493]

I think his price was about right but it would be boring if we were all the same, I did have him in my treble that day but think I took 5 others in that leg too.  I don't think dogs with strike rates like his deserve to be amongst the faves but in saying that he is going well.  Certainly not knocking the dog, I wouldn't mind owning one like him.  Yes, Surf Lorian has left some good stayers in particular, been popular here.