Manawatu Standard

[Backit 0]

Backit your point being what,

have to comply with.

HADENUFF said and I quote:

1. "INCORRECT.....check the Incorporated Societies web site you will see the accounts have been filed".

2. "The amount outstanding to the Manawatu Harness Club is approx $21k not 18 months worth of rent which would equate to approx $90k. Check the accounts of the Manawatu Harness Club on the Incorporated Societies Web site to see what their debtors were at the end of July 2009".

"The Club had a gst return due plus the infrastructure payment due, a 'guarantee' by a private person to clear all the debts plus give the Club a cash injection of funds to enable the Club to trade in the 'black'. However the Board saw fit to withold the infrastructure payment and the private person stated publically at a members meeting that they were withdrawing their support at this stage due to having no faith in the Board of Greyhound Racing New Zealand. There were approximately 40 people at this meeting who heard this".

Now I have posted the rules and obligations for the aboves benefit because what he states as the truth is fundamentally flawed.

1. There has been an on going issue with the club's audits as Bev has stated. Obligations have not been met. The last audit presented to the members was in draft form, there were a number of questions that were asked and needed to be answered before it could be signed off as an accepted set of accounts.

Sickofit also said that the audit which appears on the Incorporated Societies website had not been seen by the members including his/her partner.

Curious made these comments; The auditor's opinion on those financial statements is a qualified one, so it is not a completely clean sign-off. The auditor appears to be concerned with record-keeping related to income. Most racing clubs manage to get an unqualified audit - interesting that Manawatu can't.

The minutes from that particular AGM were never accepted by the members and the audit was subject to clarification and answers which were to be forthcoming at a later SMG. You must then ask yourself why an audit now appears on the website, why two were filed, and why the delay in the first instant.

2. HADENUFF has not yet answered the question by Terry C in regard to the track rent. On investigation I have been told that the club did not owe 18 months of rent, rather they had been in arrears for 18 months.

As for the gst return there are apparently issues and to date this has not been paid out. The infrastruture payment has also not been paid for reasons already made public. Not fulfilling your obligations as stated in the rules would probably also have a bearing. The private person who was going to bail the club out also bailed, he may have said what is quoted above, but he also said a number of other things that HADENUFF neglected to mention.

HADENUFF'S attempts to have us believe that had the infrastructure payment been forthcoming, everything would have been fine. Well it didn't come, the gst return didn't come and it's not fine, and from all accounts it hasn't been fine for a long time. There are other issues which haven't been presented in his summation of facts. Unfortunately it's not the club that pays the price, like I've said before a name's just a name.

I sincerely hope that the new 5 member management team can work with the GRNZ to facilitate racing at the Manawatu track. Best wishes to all.

[newbee 0]

Thanks for that backit, i guess there are a lot of genuine people wanting racing in manawatu and some just wanting to fill there pockets i hope the guilty have the decency to walk away

[poodlepup 0]

have to comply with.

HADENUFF said and I quote:

1. "INCORRECT.....check the Incorporated Societies web site you will see the accounts have been filed".

2. "The amount outstanding to the Manawatu Harness Club is approx $21k not 18 months worth of rent which would equate to approx $90k. Check the accounts of the Manawatu Harness Club on the Incorporated Societies Web site to see what their debtors were at the end of July 2009".

"The Club had a gst return due plus the infrastructure payment due, a 'guarantee' by a private person to clear all the debts plus give the Club a cash injection of funds to enable the Club to trade in the 'black'. However the Board saw fit to withold the infrastructure payment and the private person stated publically at a members meeting that they were withdrawing their support at this stage due to having no faith in the Board of Greyhound Racing New Zealand. There were approximately 40 people at this meeting who heard this".

Now I have posted the rules and obligations for the aboves benefit because what he states as the truth is fundamentally flawed.

1. There has been an on going issue with the club's audits as Bev has stated. Obligations have not been met. The last audit presented to the members was in draft form, there were a number of questions that were asked and needed to be answered before it could be signed off as an accepted set of accounts.

Sickofit also said that the audit which appears on the Incorporated Societies website had not been seen by the members including his/her partner.

Curious made these comments]

ALL THE WAY...

Go the new 5 member group.

The old, failed, dysfunctional lot please just accept your lot and go on holiday.and when you come back you will have a track to race on perhaps. and so might we

[beewbee 0]

and your point is???

You need audited accounts upto when trading stopped (ie March) so you can???

make an informed assessment of your own choice as a member????

As to what should happen next with the Club????

At a special AGM meeting of all members to vote what the club should do/action???

Those Audited accounts need to be sent to every member along with meeting notice two weeks before the meeting is to take place???

Not hard???

But vital????

This is from an outsiders view point. A non club member.

However the events over the past months have provided the club with the oportunity for a fresh start. It is usually from such situations that many clubs gain renewed strength and support from people that have the sports interests at heart, both from a local and district viewpoint. The apportioning of blame for arriving at this point will not change the situation. To go forward now requires the goodwill of memebrs of grnz and mgrc. The alternative from a clubs point of view is a disillusion. This would leave grnz with a track they do not own, probably having to bring the rent up to date to gain access to it, and the loss of much goodwill from many Manawatu owners/trainers.

There are two major items on the balance sheet requiring clarification. One the Track Contingent Liability has been well spoken of. The other is the $100K loan to Central Districks. The terms of this loan are not detailed in the accounts. But if this is not repayable on demand I would not consider it to be a current asset.

The filed accounts for 31/7/09 were audited on 17/9/09 and have been attested by the club secretary as being those presented to the Club General Meeting of 22/10/09. These were not filed until 23/03/10. A subsequent set of amended accounts filed which were supposedly audited 18/3/09(should be 18/3/10 I suppose) A quick perusal did not show any changes to me.

These accounts sujest that the club was actually insolvent at 31/7/09. However this situation may have changed subsequent to balance date.

Another irregularity in the clubs returns was the alteration of rules registered on 19/3/10. I assume the change/s came under: personal benefit, changing the rules, winding up or indemnity.The pages covering these rules were not submitted.

Several posters have referred to new guarantees, bridging loans and personal loans. Non of these are options in themselves. The club is insolvent as attested by two independants. To change this situation requires a structural change to the balance sheet to put the club into a situation where it can pay its creditors on time as well as service its loan commitments.

Other than an injection of capital from members, the clubs future rests with grnz and all members must accept this. The new committee will realise this and will no doubt have to conceed some issues of the past and possibly some aspects of club management for the future.

I am confident the committee will do their best, and when they come back to the members with their proposal it is up to the members to give them every support and put the past to bed.

While I am new to this sport I look forward to returning to the track.

[Umbrage 0]

Fair summation.From what I understand the so-called phantom loan to CD club (Wanganui) was, in fact, very real.Manawatu gave 100,000, Wellington 100,000 and Wairarapa a much more nominal amount.None of it has been repaid because there are apparently no minutes available to show it happened although there are plenty of people about who know it did.The question is should GRNZ pay that money back or is it Wanganui's responsibility.No doubt other race cafers will have their thoughts.

[Peter R S 411]

Fair summation.From what I understand the so-called phantom loan to CD club (Wanganui) was, in fact, very real.Manawatu gave 100,000, Wellington 100,000 and Wairarapa a much more nominal amount.None of it has been repaid because there are apparently no minutes available to show it happened although there are plenty of people about who know it did.The question is should GRNZ pay that money back or is it Wanganui's responsibility.No doubt other race cafers will have their thoughts.

As we have seen in many other situations in life, the only way that people can move on when they have been shafted in the past is for those in charge to genuinely address the issue, examples Rugby Union apologising for racial discrimination, Air NZ apologising for the Erebus fiasco, etc.

Time does little to sooth the wronged - just consider the seabed and foreshore situation, or the stolen children in Aust. The passing of decades has not pacified those who are aggrieved.

Not of the same importance of course, but the same principle applies. The CD Greyhound mess will fester until someone in power listens and acts to correct the injustices that went on all those years ago, from which the Wanganui track was built and all other clubs lost out both financially and in race date allocations. Look where they are now relative to 10 years ago when the CD restructuring was being discussed by these clubs.

Jim Leach perhaps? - what an opportunity to make a difference by making the effort to understand what has gone before and working towards righting the wrongs of that era.

One day it might happen........

[IWMC 69]

Fair summation.From what I understand the so-called phantom loan to CD club (Wanganui) was, in fact, very real.Manawatu gave 100,000, Wellington 100,000 and Wairarapa a much more nominal amount.None of it has been repaid because there are apparently no minutes available to show it happened although there are plenty of people about who know it did.The question is should GRNZ pay that money back or is it Wanganui's responsibility.No doubt other race cafers will have their thoughts.

Umbrage .A question please.

Given that conclusive evidence does exist to prove these $230K in loans were genuine backed up by Board minutes confirming advice that they the Board must treat the loans as either ""A LOAN OR EQUITY" AND TO DO NOTHING WAS NOT AN OPTION" how would you approach the subject today.?

Would you move on, seek repayment or accept Mc Arthur the authors resignation as justice and closure.

[Backit 0]

As we have seen in many other situations in life, the only way that people can move on when they have been shafted in the past is for those in charge to genuinely address the issue, examples Rugby Union apologising for racial discrimination, Air NZ apologising for the Erebus fiasco, etc.

Time does little to sooth the wronged - just consider the seabed and foreshore situation, or the stolen children in Aust. The passing of decades has not pacified those who are aggrieved.

Not of the same importance of course, but the same principle applies. The CD Greyhound mess will fester until someone in power listens and acts to correct the injustices that went on all those years ago, from which the Wanganui track was built and all other clubs lost out both financially and in race date allocations. Look where they are now relative to 10 years ago when the CD restructuring was being discussed by these clubs.

Jim Leach perhaps? - what an opportunity to make a difference by making the effort to understand what has gone before and working towards righting the wrongs of that era.

One day it might happen........

How far back are you talking, when was this loan made?

The entity that loaned the money to Wanganui no longer exists, was this entity backed by the GRNZ and did they underwrite it?

What was the purpose of the entity?

Wanganui loaned funds from the GRNZ for the track, a loan I understand they are still repaying. Why did Wanganui need a loan from the GRNZ if the entity had already advanced the funds?

Were the amounts stated by Umbrage paid directly to Wanganui by the entity members or were they paid to the entity itself?

Why is there no documentation regarding the loan?

Why have the members of the entity who believe they are owed funds not challenged repayment default in court?

I don't know the answers to these questions, could you please answer if you know?

Thank you.

[Yep Yep 0]

This is from an outsiders view point. A non club member.

However the events over the past months have provided the club with the oportunity for a fresh start. It is usually from such situations that many clubs gain renewed strength and support from people that have the sports interests at heart, both from a local and district viewpoint. The apportioning of blame for arriving at this point will not change the situation. To go forward now requires the goodwill of memebrs of grnz and mgrc. The alternative from a clubs point of view is a disillusion. This would leave grnz with a track they do not own, probably having to bring the rent up to date to gain access to it, and the loss of much goodwill from many Manawatu owners/trainers.

There are two major items on the balance sheet requiring clarification. One the Track Contingent Liability has been well spoken of. The other is the $100K loan to Central Districks. The terms of this loan are not detailed in the accounts. But if this is not repayable on demand I would not consider it to be a current asset.

The filed accounts for 31/7/09 were audited on 17/9/09 and have been attested by the club secretary as being those presented to the Club General Meeting of 22/10/09. These were not filed until 23/03/10. A subsequent set of amended accounts filed which were supposedly audited 18/3/09(should be 18/3/10 I suppose) A quick perusal did not show any changes to me.

These accounts sujest that the club was actually insolvent at 31/7/09. However this situation may have changed subsequent to balance date.

Another irregularity in the clubs returns was the alteration of rules registered on 19/3/10. I assume the change/s came under: personal benefit, changing the rules, winding up or indemnity.The pages covering these rules were not submitted.

Several posters have referred to new guarantees, bridging loans and personal loans. Non of these are options in themselves. The club is insolvent as attested by two independants. To change this situation requires a structural change to the balance sheet to put the club into a situation where it can pay its creditors on time as well as service its loan commitments.

Other than an injection of capital from members, the clubs future rests with grnz and all members must accept this. The new committee will realise this and will no doubt have to conceed some issues of the past and possibly some aspects of club management for the future.

I am confident the committee will do their best, and when they come back to the members with their proposal it is up to the members to give them every support and put the past to bed.

While I am new to this sport I look forward to returning to the track.

(should be 18/3/10 I suppose)

No they not been done by the clubs auditors upto that point,

your are right many members want racing to restart at the track ASAP.

Many members also want the past relived and settled for the club.

Many issues around GRNZ poor management of the CD and this club hostile demise at the hands of GRNZ not yet come to light.

Club has run its self into the ground compounding the problems.

Both sides are at fault.

I just wont racing at the Track so we don`t loose any more Trainers from the CD. don`t care who runs the track.

GRNZ has made a stand-- LP`s are just numbers---greyhounds are just numbers-- Have little rights--- their to be abused---anyway they see fit--- passion killers of the CD=GRNZ

What ever happened to fostering greyhound racing, promoting our growth in all CD regions ???===death of the CD as we new it by GRNZ.

enough said

that just my personal report on this mess have a great day

[Backit 0]

What happened to the entity and why does it no longer exist?

[Yep Yep 0]

What happened to the entity and why does it no longer exist?

Wellington had a hissy fit over manawatu signing a long term lease with the Trots at manawatu raceway and pulled out of the CD club concept, Wanganui then used 100k of wellies, 100k of manawatu club and Wairarapa club funds from that CD Club account to build the Wanganui Track. then with nil money left in CD club closed it down??

Sure someone will correct me if I got it wrong, well thats what I recall anyway.

[Backit 0]

Wellington had a hissy fit over manawatu signing a long term lease with the Trots at manawatu raceway and pulled out of the CD club concept, Wanganui then used 100k of wellies, 100k of manawatu club and Wairarapa club funds from that CD Club account to build the Wanganui Track. then with nil money left in CD club closed it down??

Sure someone will correct me if I got it wrong, well thats what I recall anyway.

When Wellington left the entity why did they not withdraw their funds along with their support?

[caution 0]

Wellington had a hissy fit over manawatu signing a long term lease with the Trots at manawatu raceway and pulled out of the CD club concept, Wanganui then used 100k of wellies, 100k of manawatu club and Wairarapa club funds from that CD Club account to build the Wanganui Track. then with nil money left in CD club closed it down??

Sure someone will correct me if I got it wrong, well thats what I recall anyway.

Does anyone know the true sum of what is owed, I hear there may be alot more that what sum people think but who knows with this grape vine. To much chat and not enough stright shooting.

[macduff 0]

Does anyone know the true sum of what is owed, I hear there may be alot more that what sum people think but who knows with this grape vine. To much chat and not enough stright shooting.

Why do you not go straight to the source ? Pick up the phone or use your cell phone and call the CEO of the NZGA and ask them. Surely someone of your status and importance to the industry should be able to work that out. The CEO is more likely to be able to answer your questions than anyone who posts on this forum.

[Lion 0]

Caution,

is no straight shooting from our Ass.

Lion.

[Umbrage 0]

My honest belief is that the three clubs have been cheated out of money which is fairly theirs and therefore they should be reimbursed......the question being whether it is the GRNZ or the Wanganui club which makes the repayment.Obviously under the current leadership of the GRNZ it is very unlikely any inquiry will be on their agenda but if the clubs were prepared to vote for independant arbitration-and by that I mean the great majority of clubs-then maybe progress can be made.

[Peter R S 411]

what goes around, comes around. Or put another way, every dog has his day.

Did the CD Group act with integrity, or was the outcome the result of a hidden agenda (that's akin to corruption) with the current Chairman in the thick of it?

Even if it was not, surely the simple fact of where the funds came from and where they were spent prompts the question of compensation.

Ivan says repay or resign.

What do others think?

[Yep Yep 0]

Does anyone know the true sum of what is owed, I hear there may be alot more that what sum people think but who knows with this grape vine. To much chat and not enough stright shooting.

I asked the club sec- about 7/8 weeks ago for a the clubs audited account from their own auditor upto point they stopped trading. Was told GRNZ had Cheque butts wouldn`t give them back so audit couldn`t be done. Ask two weeks was told they had cheque butts back from GRNZ but the club wasn`t going to have the clubs auditors produce those account . Not needed books upto date every cent accounted for.

I for one wont a copy of the clubs audited accounts performed by the clubs auditors upto the point they stopped trading ie the last race meeting they held this year.

Every member has a right to a copy of those official accounts.

Currently their are version of what might be so called True accounts, GRNZ has produce so called assessments to try to justify their actions to the club. None of those version even the clubs own assessments are a official audit. Could be correct but most likely not fully correct and manipulated for ones own ends.

Wont a copy of the official accounts done by the Clubs own auditors upto the point they stopped trading, so one can make an informed factual based of the current mess without the red herrings reports being sent to every man and his dog by GRNZ underbelly.

Straight shooting enough for you.

[Backit 0]

that has attempted to bring the facts regarding the CD loan? to this forum. I have used a question mark as I like you weren't involved in any decision making.

When I made the comments regarding the Manawatu financial situation I purposely didn't comment on the rest of HADENUFF's summation of the facts. The reason being that both loans mentioned are in dispute.

But, I will say this neither loan has a bearing on the management and the financial position of the club at this time. The CD loan has never been challenged by Manawatu, after this length of time only court action will prove or disprove liability. Now I know that you are not a fan of litigation and neither am I. However, litigation would end the hostility one way or another and the outcome would be final. The parties reported to be liable in this instance are not going to come to the party.

I believe had Manawatu received the disputed $100,000 it would have made very little difference to todays financial position. The disputed loan repayment cannot and should not be used as an excuse for poor management as it was never going to be paid.

Looking at the balance sheet for the year July 31st 2009, the finances as Curious has stated, were in a mess. Without going back to the incorporated societies website, the loss posted was in the vacinity of $90,000. It is reported by members NOT ME that the club debt to date could exceed the amount above.

HADENUFF'S summation includes many maybe's, if's and but's; at the end of the day you must work with what is known and not with what you think you are entilted to. If any monies were then later received, you would be looking at a bonus surplus not a deficit as is now the case. Again this is an opinion based on what has been reported and what documentation I have seen.

[Greyhoundrunner 0]

My honest belief is that the three clubs have been cheated out of money which is fairly theirs and therefore they should be reimbursed......the question being whether it is the GRNZ or the Wanganui club which makes the repayment.Obviously under the current leadership of the GRNZ it is very unlikely any inquiry will be on their agenda but if the clubs were prepared to vote for independant arbitration-and by that I mean the great majority of clubs-then maybe progress can be made.

Seems the sage has more to offer with what you say about money owed and i agree with this approach. WHEN are all clubs going to get involved to clear the air and the industry move on, i notice people want this to happen the sooner the better am i wrong in thinking this after reading posts. cheers unknown name ps Mcduff you want to know how people learn whats happening in CD just read posts.

[Yep Yep 0]

Seems the sage has more to offer with what you say about money owed and i agree with this approach. WHEN are all clubs going to get involved to clear the air and the industry move on, i notice people want this to happen the sooner the better am i wrong in thinking this after reading posts. cheers unknown name ps Mcduff you want to know how people learn whats happening in CD just read posts.

move on to where??/

out of the industry cause your pissed off at the CD mess???

Out of the industry cause GRNZ taken away racing in your area ( hutt Valley-Solway) with nil support for those trainers-owners-clubs in that area.

How do you solve that mess let alone Manawatu raceway mess.

Only one way to address???

Be a number just race your dogs or get out of the industry. GRNZ = Passion killers in the CD---

[Greyhoundrunner 0]

move on to where??/

out of the industry cause your pissed off at the CD mess???

Out of the industry cause GRNZ taken away racing in your area ( hutt Valley-Solway) with nil support for those trainers-owners-clubs in that area.

How do you solve that mess let alone Manawatu raceway mess.

Only one way to address???

Be a number just race your dogs or get out of the industry. GRNZ = Passion killers in the CD---

Whatever it takes , but going off on here like the disaster movie 112 isnt helping. and as for the CD its like a weather report bad storms brewing, but some good news at least Wellington has more meetings. Actually Danny i am thinking you need your meds again m8 i know who i am pissed off with, but it isnt the CD. I will go one step more as i said lets organise through the only option left is the OTBA. Grahame Noblet is right. The way it appears on here if things are that bad call a meeting organise and take them on head first, all i see here is petty chit, to me means nothing but if you feel as strong AS YOU DO about the CD get of your computor and do something like organise a OTBA branch and start all over. Chrrts unknow nmae

[eton 0]

Whatever it takes , but going off on here like the disaster movie 112 isnt helping. and as for the CD its like a weather report bad storms brewing, but some good news at least Wellington has more meetings. Actually Danny i am thinking you need your meds again m8 i know who i am pissed off with, but it isnt the CD. I will go one step more as i said lets organise through the only option left is the OTBA. Grahame Noblet is right. The way it appears on here if things are that bad call a meeting organise and take them on head first, all i see here is petty chit, to me means nothing but if you feel as strong AS YOU DO about the CD get of your computor and do something like organise a OTBA branch and start all over. Chrrts unknow nmae

happy birthday unknown name, at your age i hope for your birthday you got bigger letters for your key board. Have a good day mate.

cheers eton

[Yep Yep 0]

Whatever it takes , but going off on here like the disaster movie 112 isnt helping. and as for the CD its like a weather report bad storms brewing, but some good news at least Wellington has more meetings. Actually Danny i am thinking you need your meds again m8 i know who i am pissed off with, but it isnt the CD. I will go one step more as i said lets organise through the only option left is the OTBA. Grahame Noblet is right. The way it appears on here if things are that bad call a meeting organise and take them on head first, all i see here is petty chit, to me means nothing but if you feel as strong AS YOU DO about the CD get of your computor and do something like organise a OTBA branch and start all over. Chrrts unknow nmae

spoken word getting to ya,

lets put my position in greyhound racing, so its crystal clear.

I am just a number that supplies a few greyhounds for the CD. thats my place in this world.

why would I bother doing anything else when the passion killers are firmly on the job working there magic.

CD buggered, will be till Wellington gets its own track, then the CD will re-event its self and calm waters will flow.

Thats all beyond me, I just like proding with my tazzer every now and then.

Jim how long you been in NZ cause thats how long I been in dogs 17 or 18 years???

[Greyhoundrunner 0]

spoken word getting to ya,

lets put my position in greyhound racing, so its crystal clear.

I am just a number that supplies a few greyhounds for the CD. thats my place in this world.

why would I bother doing anything else when the passion killers are firmly on the job working there magic.

CD buggered, will be till Wellington gets its own track, then the CD will re-event its self and calm waters will flow.

Thats all beyond me, I just like proding with my tazzer every now and then.

Jim how long you been in NZ cause thats how long I been in dogs 17 or 18 years???

I have been involved 17 here but been in dogs since 1956 I agree with what your saying but ACTION is better we need i repeat to form an OTBA in the CD thats militant enough to take all those mentioned in posts to task about how things are happening not only in CD. I would join and be active if you did in any way possible to see the end of this sham of management.cheers Jim